**** Venom (Agent Venom) ****

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Comments

  • jobob
    jobob Posts: 680 Critical Contributor
    Crowl wrote:
    Mitchjewitz wrote:
    roberts_2 wrote:
    Black stole my purple Scarlett Witch a lot of times and can't use it until the end, black shakes board and put's enemy tiles out of match. Invisible Woman was my last match and i lose 10k health in a EASY fight because the black power of my Agent Venom. Useless char for me.

    So this was brought up before but be aware of your team. Any three chars don't just magically work together. Venom's black at one cover triggers at 12 AP so don't pick characters with powers more expensive than 12 AP.

    It is all very well talking about people not using certain characters with him, but the reality of scaling and boosted characters means that lots of people have the choice of using those characters or struggling even more on those nodes than they do without them.

    Luckily it will be quite some time before he could possibly be an essential in a heroic.
    That doesn't make him that different from a lot of characters, though. If you don't have a full roster to optimize the team build, it's more difficult.

    And, again, just spec him to 5... There aren't many powers that are 16 AP or more that players rely on.
  • Pylgrim
    Pylgrim Posts: 2,331 Chairperson of the Boards
    I really don't have a problem with characters like this existing. They are skill and experience testers. It's ok to have characters like Iron Fist or Jean Grey, who are blatantly powerful from the very first information on their abilities. However, it's good that characters exist that require some time and experience to reveal themselves as usable, or even great. They provide moments of "discovery" which is one of the great things about games, which makes your mind grow a bit. I still cannot believe how hard I had to try to convince people that the Star Lord rework was great when first announced. Venom is probably not Star Lord level, but still good. Time will tell.
  • vudu3
    vudu3 Posts: 940 Critical Contributor
    jobob wrote:
    And, again, just spec him to 5... There aren't many powers that are 16 AP or more that players rely on.
    OML needs 16 yellow (and 9 black) to transform and unleash Old Habits twice. You say there aren't many abilities that cost 16 AP that players rely on but that combination is one of the most common at advanced levels of play.

    You can argue that no one's going to use AV and OML together unless forced due to the color overlap but when forced to do so those players who rely on OML are going to be screwed.
  • Mitchjewitz
    Mitchjewitz Posts: 84 Match Maker
    vudu3 wrote:
    jobob wrote:
    And, again, just spec him to 5... There aren't many powers that are 16 AP or more that players rely on.
    OML needs 16 yellow (and 9 black) to transform and unleash Old Habits twice. You say there aren't many abilities that cost 16 AP that players rely on but that combination is one of the most common at advanced levels of play.

    You can argue that no one's going to use AV and OML together unless forced due to the color overlap but when forced to do so those players who rely on OML are going to be screwed.

    uhh... just transform with 12 yellow and collect the rest after you use the yellow once. It's not that hard.
  • GuntherBlobel
    GuntherBlobel Posts: 987 Critical Contributor
    Synergy teams that completely manage Alien Weakness (since so many people hate it):

    Finding teams that work with only one icon_venom.pngblackflag.png cover and not trigger Alien Weakness requires:
    1) An active ability in each color
    2) 12 AP costs or lower in each color

    There are 627 different 4*/3* playable character combinations in the game right now that fit that criteria. Scarlet Witch is only in 9 of them. She's boosted right now, so honestly, I think that's where so many complaints are coming from.

    627 different 4*/3* playable teams are too many to list here. So, I'm just going to list some with cheap power synergy, since Alien Weakness haters will be constantly firing off powers to keep the symbiote at bay. Here are a few ideas.

    icon_professorx.png teams to pump out and improve special tiles (6 actives + 3 or 4 passives):
    icon_professorx.png | icon_punisher.png | icon_venom.png #This looks awesome. I just need PunMAX. 4 passives. Strike tiles!
    icon_professorx.png | icon_warmachine.png | icon_venom.png #Nice! Arial Assault + Alien Weakness + Blind Spot. Attack tiles!
    icon_invisiblewoman.png | icon_professorx.png | icon_venom.png #Invisible! Invisible! Invisible! I'm definitely trying this. Strike + Protect tiles!
    icon_professorx.png | icon_beast.png | icon_venom.png #BFFs + Venom
    icon_professorx.png | icon_quake.png | icon_venom.png
    icon_professorx.png | icon_rocket.png | icon_venom.png
    icon_professorx.png | icon_doctoroctopus.png | icon_venom.png #Playing this in Eight is Enough. It's fun even though its one of the weakest teams here.
    icon_iceman.png | icon_professorx.png | icon_venom.png
    icon_professorx.png | icon_shehulk.png | icon_venom.png

    icon_kamalakhan.png constantly heals with cheap powers (2 colors < 7 AP, another 2 colors < 10 AP, and the rest < 13 AP):
    icon_cyclops.png | icon_kamalakhan.png | icon_venom.png #Easily the best of these.
    icon_kamalakhan.png | icon_ragnarok.png | icon_venom.png #2 healing powers.
    icon_kamalakhan.png | icon_shehulk.png | icon_venom.png
    icon_kamalakhan.png | icon_vision.png | icon_venom.png
    icon_beast.png | icon_kamalakhan.png | icon_venom.png
  • SangFroid
    SangFroid Posts: 177 Tile Toppler
    GuntherBlobel wrote:
    Synergy teams that completely manage Alien Weakness (since so many people hate it):

    Finding teams that work with only one icon_venom.pngblackflag.png cover and not trigger Alien Weakness requires:
    1) An active ability in each color
    2) 12 AP costs or lower in each color

    There are 627 different 4*/3* playable character combinations in the game right now that fit that criteria. Scarlet Witch is only in 9 of them. She's boosted right now, so honestly, I think that's where so many complaints are coming from.

    627 different 4*/3* playable teams are too many to list here. So, I'm just going to list some with cheap power synergy, since Alien Weakness haters will be constantly firing off powers to keep the symbiote at bay. Here are a few ideas.

    icon_professorx.png teams to pump out and improve special tiles (6 actives + 3 or 4 passives):
    icon_professorx.png | icon_punisher.png | icon_venom.png #This looks awesome. I just need PunMAX. 4 passives. Strike tiles!
    icon_professorx.png | icon_warmachine.png | icon_venom.png #Nice! Arial Assault + Alien Weakness + Blind Spot. Attack tiles!
    icon_invisiblewoman.png | icon_professorx.png | icon_venom.png #Invisible! Invisible! Invisible! I'm definitely trying this. Strike + Protect tiles!
    icon_professorx.png | icon_beast.png | icon_venom.png #BFFs + Venom
    icon_professorx.png | icon_quake.png | icon_venom.png
    icon_professorx.png | icon_rocket.png | icon_venom.png
    icon_professorx.png | icon_doctoroctopus.png | icon_venom.png #Playing this in Eight is Enough. It's fun even though its one of the weakest teams here.
    icon_iceman.png | icon_professorx.png | icon_venom.png
    icon_professorx.png | icon_shehulk.png | icon_venom.png

    icon_kamalakhan.png constantly heals with cheap powers (2 colors < 7 AP, another 2 colors < 10 AP, and the rest < 13 AP):
    icon_cyclops.png | icon_kamalakhan.png | icon_venom.png #Easily the best of these.
    icon_kamalakhan.png | icon_ragnarok.png | icon_venom.png #2 healing powers.
    icon_kamalakhan.png | icon_shehulk.png | icon_venom.png
    icon_kamalakhan.png | icon_vision.png | icon_venom.png
    icon_beast.png | icon_kamalakhan.png | icon_venom.png

    Thank you for taking the time to actually look at the character and think up how he can be used! So sick of the previous "HE SUCKS!!!"...because "REASONS!!!" that was rampant in this thread.
  • notamutant
    notamutant Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    SangFroid wrote:
    GuntherBlobel wrote:
    Synergy teams that completely manage Alien Weakness (since so many people hate it):

    Finding teams that work with only one icon_venom.pngblackflag.png cover and not trigger Alien Weakness requires:
    1) An active ability in each color
    2) 12 AP costs or lower in each color

    There are 627 different 4*/3* playable character combinations in the game right now that fit that criteria. Scarlet Witch is only in 9 of them. She's boosted right now, so honestly, I think that's where so many complaints are coming from.

    627 different 4*/3* playable teams are too many to list here. So, I'm just going to list some with cheap power synergy, since Alien Weakness haters will be constantly firing off powers to keep the symbiote at bay. Here are a few ideas.

    icon_professorx.png teams to pump out and improve special tiles (6 actives + 3 or 4 passives):
    icon_professorx.png | icon_punisher.png | icon_venom.png #This looks awesome. I just need PunMAX. 4 passives. Strike tiles!
    icon_professorx.png | icon_warmachine.png | icon_venom.png #Nice! Arial Assault + Alien Weakness + Blind Spot. Attack tiles!
    icon_invisiblewoman.png | icon_professorx.png | icon_venom.png #Invisible! Invisible! Invisible! I'm definitely trying this. Strike + Protect tiles!
    icon_professorx.png | icon_beast.png | icon_venom.png #BFFs + Venom
    icon_professorx.png | icon_quake.png | icon_venom.png
    icon_professorx.png | icon_rocket.png | icon_venom.png
    icon_professorx.png | icon_doctoroctopus.png | icon_venom.png #Playing this in Eight is Enough. It's fun even though its one of the weakest teams here.
    icon_iceman.png | icon_professorx.png | icon_venom.png
    icon_professorx.png | icon_shehulk.png | icon_venom.png

    icon_kamalakhan.png constantly heals with cheap powers (2 colors < 7 AP, another 2 colors < 10 AP, and the rest < 13 AP):
    icon_cyclops.png | icon_kamalakhan.png | icon_venom.png #Easily the best of these.
    icon_kamalakhan.png | icon_ragnarok.png | icon_venom.png #2 healing powers.
    icon_kamalakhan.png | icon_shehulk.png | icon_venom.png
    icon_kamalakhan.png | icon_vision.png | icon_venom.png
    icon_beast.png | icon_kamalakhan.png | icon_venom.png

    Thank you for taking the time to actually look at the character and think up how he can be used! So sick of the previous "HE SUCKS!!!"...because "REASONS!!!" that was rampant in this thread.

    To be fair, 90% of his suggested teams included 3 stars, which are useless for anyone that will actually have AV fully covered anytime soon (outside of Charlie's Angels), or included Prox, who is also not that useful because of his tiny health pool outside of Charlie's Angels. They also don't take into account you can't make AV 5/5/5, so he would have to use a weaker version of AV on most of his teams. I don't think I would ever use any of the suggested teams. He put a lot of effort into this though, so I will give him that much credit.
  • Mitchjewitz
    Mitchjewitz Posts: 84 Match Maker
    notamutant wrote:

    ...
    Finding teams that work with only one icon_venom.pngblackflag.png cover and not trigger Alien Weakness requires:
    ...

    To be fair, 90% of his suggested teams included 3 stars, which are useless for anyone that will actually have AV fully covered anytime soon (outside of Charlie's Angels), or included Prox, who is also not that useful because of his tiny health pool outside of Charlie's Angels. They also don't take into account you can't make AV 5/5/5, so he would have to use a weaker version of AV on most of his teams. I don't think I would ever use any of the suggested teams. He put a lot of effort into this though, so I will give him that much credit.

    So he said from the beginning these are teams based on one black cover. His post is for the players who are not whales and probably 3* players that will have a lower covered venom for a while. I am curious to see how a maxed AV performs though. Any chance of a video analysis?
  • notamutant
    notamutant Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    Mitchjewitz wrote:
    notamutant wrote:

    ...
    Finding teams that work with only one icon_venom.pngblackflag.png cover and not trigger Alien Weakness requires:
    ...

    To be fair, 90% of his suggested teams included 3 stars, which are useless for anyone that will actually have AV fully covered anytime soon (outside of Charlie's Angels), or included Prox, who is also not that useful because of his tiny health pool outside of Charlie's Angels. They also don't take into account you can't make AV 5/5/5, so he would have to use a weaker version of AV on most of his teams. I don't think I would ever use any of the suggested teams. He put a lot of effort into this though, so I will give him that much credit.

    So he said from the beginning these are teams based on one black cover. His post is for the players who are not whales and probably 3* players that will have a lower covered venom for a while. I am curious to see how a maxed AV performs though. Any chance of a video analysis?

    Forgot that was in his original post. Still not sure what teams would work with him even with full covers though.

    Yeah, I have been distracted by a broken heating system in my house. I will have to catch up on analysis videos. I still need to do Blade too. Both Blade and AV really require fooling around a bit to figure out who they work well with. These self-AP draining characters are too complicated to figure out on paper. The annoying thing for me now is, even in my sandbox account, I can't test out level 270 4 stars in PvP anymore, because I only see 550 champion teams a lot of the time. I have to play through to a suitable PvE node that is good enough for testing to get an accurate idea both for PvP and PvE purposes.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    notamutant wrote:
    The annoying thing for me now is, even in my sandbox account, I can't test out level 270 4 stars in PvP anymore, because I only see 550 champion teams a lot of the time. I have to play through to a suitable PvE node that is good enough for testing to get an accurate idea both for PvP and PvE purposes.

    This right here sounds suspiciously like 1st world problems icon_e_smile.gif
  • mpqr7
    mpqr7 Posts: 2,642 Chairperson of the Boards
    Take Cover is a great team-up. I bet Invisible Woman's yellow is a great team-up as well!
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,759 Chairperson of the Boards
    Mitchjewitz wrote:
    notamutant wrote:

    ...
    Finding teams that work with only one icon_venom.pngblackflag.png cover and not trigger Alien Weakness requires:
    ...

    To be fair, 90% of his suggested teams included 3 stars, which are useless for anyone that will actually have AV fully covered anytime soon (outside of Charlie's Angels), or included Prox, who is also not that useful because of his tiny health pool outside of Charlie's Angels. They also don't take into account you can't make AV 5/5/5, so he would have to use a weaker version of AV on most of his teams. I don't think I would ever use any of the suggested teams. He put a lot of effort into this though, so I will give him that much credit.

    So he said from the beginning these are teams based on one black cover. His post is for the players who are not whales and probably 3* players that will have a lower covered venom for a while. I am curious to see how a maxed AV performs though. Any chance of a video analysis?
    Doc if you go 3,5,5 he can pair with BSSM. With 11 yellow you can make BSSM invisible and let him fire his blue for max damage. You can use him with 4* cyclops making AV 5,5,3 making cyclops 3,5,5. You fire Cyclops yellow and collect TU once you get 12 red or 10 red and 12 TU AV does damage plus has his cheep black.
    You can use him with OML as a yellow outlet to fire OML black and not flip him.
    You can also run him with OML at level 3 black and let AV go alien weakness and get extra damage from useless AP with OML strike tiles out.
    Overall he is not top tier, but once covered and leveled will be solid mid tier and useful when buffed.
  • Alkyoneus
    Alkyoneus Posts: 116 Tile Toppler
    So i somehow ended up with 13 covers for this guy and he'll be champed eventually, but has anyone had any experience playing with him? He seems clunky but I doubt anyone besides the whaley whales know if he's truly bad.
    Anyone? Bueller?
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    Alkyoneus wrote:
    So i somehow ended up with 13 covers for this guy and he'll be champed eventually, but has anyone had any experience playing with him? He seems clunky but I doubt anyone besides the whaley whales know if he's truly bad.
    Anyone? Bueller?

    Have no experience with him myself. But just on pure spec, he looks like the type of character that needs to have a team custom built to leverage his skills. So he wants to pair with characters that have cheap powers (so his constant ap drain won't interfere), and you want to be using his black as often as possible.

    He's clearly not good enough to make his way into the real meta; he is just too hard to use properly when there are better, easier options available. But like drax or carnage or some other lower/mid tier 4*s, you can probably design a useful team around him if he is your only maxed 4*.
  • Bigwillyg
    Bigwillyg Posts: 5 Just Dropped In
    has the person responsible for agent venom been severely punished yet? the design of the powers, to me, makes him completely undesirable. I only have two covers but based on his specs he instills no desire to even try to figure him out.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    Bigwillyg wrote:
    has the person responsible for agent venom been severely punished yet? the design of the powers, to me, makes him completely undesirable. I only have two covers but based on his specs he instills no desire to even try to figure him out.

    Welcome to the forum icon_e_smile.gif

    There aren't many 4*s that are good at 2 covers, and Agent Venom is probably one of the worst at low covers because of his conditions/drawbacks that only get manageable at (nearly) full covers. Venom and Carnage also have this problem.

    I think he'll be ok (not stellar) when maxed, so I think a severe punishment is probably not called for. It's ok if you don't like the design for some of the characters in the game (probably a pretty tall order to get all players to love all characters). Sucks if you like the character but hate the design, I guess.

    Give him a try or play someone else, I guess.
  • Mr_Sinister
    Mr_Sinister Posts: 356 Mover and Shaker
    Fully covered, champing soon, currently level 170. Agent Venom works really well with Gwenpool. Combo his yellow with her black for a turn of no damage and when Venom gets back he has damage mitigation. HHer green is a beast and that gives 2 different colors for AoE, a board control with her purple, and a single target heavy hit with his red.
  • Gari
    Gari Posts: 92 Match Maker
    Pylgrim wrote:
    I really don't have a problem with characters like this existing. They are skill and experience testers. It's ok to have characters like Iron Fist or Jean Grey, who are blatantly powerful from the very first information on their abilities. However, it's good that characters exist that require some time and experience to reveal themselves as usable, or even great. They provide moments of "discovery" which is one of the great things about games, which makes your mind grow a bit. I still cannot believe how hard I had to try to convince people that the Star Lord rework was great when first announced. Venom is probably not Star Lord level, but still good. Time will tell.

    Try WM him and IM40. Use WM red and green but Dont use WM blue after recharge. You'll see it
  • JFisch
    JFisch Posts: 116 Tile Toppler
    If my AV weren't languishing at 1/2/1, I'd try him out with Star-Lord. I see great promise in making that black attack that's already cheap a spam-at-will steal.

    But I'd need about 7 more covers before I can try it out.
  • notamutant
    notamutant Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    https://youtu.be/kpd4hpTT4yI

    Given how Agent Venom is boosted this week, I figured I would finally get around to making a video analysis of him. My findings confirm my originally feelings about him not being that good. Although interestingly enough, his transformation with his black was less of an issue than I thought originally when I only had a few covers for him. I still feel like you need 5 in black at all times for the following reasons: 1) his red and black don't do nearly enough damage at 3 or 4 covers to be worth using at all. 2) If his red is at 5, you want his black at 5 as well to make sure you can actually use his red with the conditional higher damage, which is harder with black at 3. 3) If his red isn't at 5, it also shouldn't be at 4, so the only other build would be 3/5/5.

    His yellow can do decent damage, and be somewhat annoying, but I wish there was a way to make AV himself invisible at 5 covers rather than the number of turns they are invisible jumping up to 4.

    He does decent damage, but finding a team he works well on is really difficult, and he is annoying to play with since you have to very carefully manage your AP to maximize his damage output. On defense, I am sure he will make you a bigger target over some other boosted characters. The AI will never use his red properly. His black does do good damage for cheap though.

    I would put him in the middle tier, because he does do good damage, but towards the bottom due to his drawbacks and difficulty of using him properly.

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