Red Skull - ***** (brief)

therightwaye

Disable Target
8

Punch target for damage. Place trap tile. While trap tile is on-board no red powers can be fired.


Dust of Death
10

Place enemy countdown tile. At start of enemy turn, change five basic tiles red.

<passive> if Enemy red AP is at 30, remove 15 AP and kill target


AP steal
0
Every time a power is fired, steal enemy's highest AP (besides red) and give red AP. At a 2:1 rate.

therightwaye

just a brief template note about a 5 Red Skull.

zodiac339

A step forward and a step back on this. Allowing him to make strike tiles means that it should leave Imaginaut alone. The great strength of Imaginaut is that it applies it's own damage after the match is made, meaning the strike tiles increase the match and the Imaginaut damage separately.

It looks like the AP gain goes up to 5 per tile, which feels too high, even with the number of strikes needed on the board to get it. Pair with a passive strike generator, and it gets too much. I'd suggest the FF synergy here go like "Creates an additional (weaker) strike tile for each FF member on the team." By himself, he'd make the strong tile, plus a weaker tile. With 2 other members, he'd make one big tile and 3 smaller ones, accelerating the potential team stun and AP generation. AP generation still needs to be reduced, unless what you meant to put down was that the AP starts at 1 per tile at rank 3 and goes up to 2 AP at rank 5, which sounds okay.

Give this a base heal with some other effect for utilizing team up power. While Protect tiles are typically looked down upon, creating one with its power based on drained team up AP is an idea.

Leave it as Imaginaut.

therightwaye

so this was a page about mr fantastic, but instead of duplicating my pages I thought I would delete this one. but people commented on it, so I can't. lame.

anyhow, thought I'd try a different idea for Red Skull

therightwaye

So he seems more like a non-playable villain than he does a playable character.

zodiac339

It's not. Imaginaut deals damage when you match red, green, or yellow. Not when Mr. F does, but when the team does. And unlike Vision's Blue, it doesn't increase damage, but does it separately. This means that Strike tiles will increase the damage or the match, then the damage of Imaginaut, double-dipping on the damage increase. A similar trick makes Black Widow Original (the 2 star) scary when there are strong strikes out, except here, you're not relying on the fragile character doing the matches personally. The trade off is that Imaginaut is strictly a damage dealer and doesn't have the steal that Espionage has. Balance of Power shows the trade off is that it deals 6670 damage on top of the match vs. 1488 damage and 1 AP steal for any that Widow personally matches. You also have to spare 9 to put out the count down tile first, but RGY matches are very common and should keep the tile refreshed while it lasts.

ErikPeter

Comparing damage scaling between 2 and 4 is pointless. 4s scale much better at 550 than lower tiers do.

Plus, dealing 6000 damage in BoP is awful! Guys at that level have 130k HP, and do 1000s in match damage alone! I honestly think if the power was changed to do level 550 damage--6000 per match at level 270--it would be closer to balanced than it is now.

OK yeah, that would be too good. But my point is it's super, super weak for a power that is entirely focused on damage. It should do 2400 a match, not 800. Or it should create two Strength 600-800 strike tiles when it comes out. It's hard to get it to trigger more than 5 times or so before the countdown goes down, it should have a better effect. I worry that Mr F. has some high level PvP concept that people haven't found yet and you could make him into an unkillable special tile + extra damage nightmare, but for 800 damage/match it hasn't happened yet.

It's a shame, because Imaginaut IS a fun power; it's fun to make BGY chains and boost the countdown and keep it going. But it needs to do more damage, or have some other effect, to be closer in utility to other Black powers.

Let's say you copy Master of the Fantastic a bit, when you make a RGY match it also gives you 1 Blue per FF ally on the team. That would make it much better and make Thing and IW much more interesting teammates, as you have indirect ways to make Blue AND Green.

Or they could just make it a special "Imaginaut" tile that lasts forever until matched, and deal 800 damage per Imaginaut tile on the board when you make a RGY match. That would be interesting because you're much more likely to get your AP's worth, it's essentially a strike tile that they can't steal/remove as easily. It'd be a turnover threat, but people could deal with it so it wouldn't be broken.

OP's Elasticity is weird--the AI would spend 7 to generate 4 in a lot of dumb ways and lose all of your protect tiles--and it looks like he forgot a couple 00's on the healing numbers for that awful yellow--but I think the OP's not wrong in trying to completely redo him to make him more thematic.

ErikPeter

therightwaye wrote:

:redflag: Disable Target
8

Punch target for damage. Place trap tile. While trap tile is on-board no red powers can be fired.


Dust of Death
10

Place enemy countdown tile. At start of enemy turn, change five basic tiles red.

<passive> if Enemy red AP is at 30, remove 15 AP and kill target


AP steal
0
Every time a power is fired, steal enemy's highest AP (besides red) and give red AP. At a 2:1 rate.

Well since you've changed the OP completely, making my comments above obsolete, I'll comment on the spec you replaced it with.

I really like Red. It's an interesting drawback/advantage that combos well with his other powers. It's a strong, interesting defense that you can counterplay. The activating player is sort of hindered by it as he can't use it again unless the tile goes away; if the enemy builds up Red AP, then the trap is removed, you might take a barrage of attacks each turn. All good things. Mechanically I think a similar power might be more interesting to block Black or Green abilities, but I guess there are a lot of decent Red damage options at the 5-star tier.

What's the CD for Dust of Death? Seems... Really odd to give the enemy team red. It's obviously crazy good combined with his red power, though converting tiles will have a decent chance of getting rid of the trap, leaving you facing a very angry, red-fueled enemy team. I doubt the enemy will get to 30 AP very often but with that effect, just kinda bonkers if they do. It seems broken at first glance, on second examination it probably isn't, and might 'work' only rarely and more often give the enemy brutal crit cascades. But even so I'm wary of any power that could (even theoretically) deal 100k+ damage as a passive.

Yellow seems decent, kinda brutal. AP steal is usually given to guys who slow the game down, get benefits out of turnover (strike/attack, e.g.); this one, along with his red, really hinders the team, but a little weird that it only accelerates red which under many circumstances you won't be able to fire. Against goon teams you'd get lots of free red, which would be cool for PvE. With any other red user this'd be stronger than Star-Lord (assuming it's generating more than 1 red AP/activation) who is already gonzo. Lower costs for a few turns, or 9 free AP every few turns?; I know which I'd pick.

I'd take this basic idea and turn Dust of Death into a scaling damage to percent-of-Health power. Deadpool style. Like maybe, for 5 AP, deals 10% of the enemy's current health, drains Red and deals +3% more for each AP spent. At 30 red you'd kill any opponent (or hit whatever obscene max you wanted to put in just to be safe) but more likely you're using it to do 30-50% of their health, still potentially great but limited and less bonkers than "give the enemy AP and maybe kill them?" I'd keep Red how it is and figure out how to keep Yellow good but not great.

therightwaye

@erikpeter I can't delete this. I can't do nothing but edit this whole thing. It's incredibly broken format.

Anyhow, so what do you think of him as a possible non-player character? A boss fight. I think he could be re-worked both ways.

But yes, his concept was to give the player red. The concept was he was pulling the strings of the players. Masterminding everything. If played correctly you end up feeding the opponent a bunch of red and force them to not be able to use it. And then the big reveal happens and a player dies.

This was the brief idea, given your response I think it warrants further updating.

darkwatcherDEZ

The Agent Coulson "Inside Job" event (and its ending) sparked a desire to rekindle the Red Skull Concept. It would, if anything, introduce a new boss with added Hydra thugs / goons (particularly with the Elite Lieutenant / Commander abilities). The character creation could leverage the "Ghost Rider" artwork and his abilities could utilize some existing move-sets for example:

He could leverage some of 5-Star Caps abilities (Super Soldier clone but with Hydra agents). For example Earth’s Mightiest Heroes / Coordinated Offensive could be "Hail Hydra," and give him his own modified version of Shield Bash. Previous posters have some good ideas with "Dust of Death," but perhaps make it more like 3-Star Punisher's RED ability where if conditions are met then the character is downed.

Another ability borrowing from exiting move-sets could vary depending on the developers implementation. Originally, we imagined it with the use of the Cosmic Cube as "Alter Reality." This ability would borrow 3-Star Colossus mechanic allowing Red Skull to pick from an enemy team's ability and using it against them. However if the developers do not want to incorporate the Cosmic Cube, the ability could be called "Immediate Threat" also borrowing the 3-Star Colossus mechanic to make use of an ally's special, but leaving them stunned after (as opposed to airborne).

A unique ability we imagined would be "Strategic Genius" (or better name). This ability borrows from existing countdown mechanics like 3-Strange, 4-Danvers, and Star-Lord, but with a minor twist. Red Skull places two (or whatever is not game breaking) countdown tiles that restrict enemy AP gain in the respective colors chosen. The restriction lasts so long as the countdown tile exists, and a secondary effect (explosive damage, special tile creation, etc) would occur on expiration of the countdown. An alternative option to the secondary effect would be to extend the countdown life if the colors are matched ala 4-Star Fantastic / 4-Star Cyclops.

There could be more possibilities depending on what developers are willing to entertain (such as possible Professor X ability cloning since R.Skull took his brain in the Avengers vs. X-Men conflict. Introducing Red Skull and Hydra could also allow a PVE event similar to "Enemy of the State" with a Hydra brainwashed Captain America.

therightwaye

darkwatcherDEZ wrote:

The Agent Coulson "Inside Job" event (and its ending) sparked a desire to rekindle the Red Skull Concept. It would, if anything, introduce a new boss with added Hydra thugs / goons (particularly with the Elite Lieutenant / Commander abilities). The character creation could leverage the "Ghost Rider" artwork and his abilities could utilize some existing move-sets for example:

He could leverage some of 5-Star Caps abilities (Super Soldier clone but with Hydra agents). For example Earth’s Mightiest Heroes / Coordinated Offensive could be "Hail Hydra," and give him his own modified version of Shield Bash. Previous posters have some good ideas with "Dust of Death," but perhaps make it more like 3-Star Punisher's RED ability where if conditions are met then the character is downed.

Another ability borrowing from exiting move-sets could vary depending on the developers implementation. Originally, we imagined it with the use of the Cosmic Cube as "Alter Reality." This ability would borrow 3-Star Colossus mechanic allowing Red Skull to pick from an enemy team's ability and using it against them. However if the developers do not want to incorporate the Cosmic Cube, the ability could be called "Immediate Threat" also borrowing the 3-Star Colossus mechanic to make use of an ally's special, but leaving them stunned after (as opposed to airborne).

A unique ability we imagined would be "Strategic Genius" (or better name). This ability borrows from existing countdown mechanics like 3-Strange, 4-Danvers, and Star-Lord, but with a minor twist. Red Skull places two (or whatever is not game breaking) countdown tiles that restrict enemy AP gain in the respective colors chosen. The restriction lasts so long as the countdown tile exists, and a secondary effect (explosive damage, special tile creation, etc) would occur on expiration of the countdown. An alternative option to the secondary effect would be to extend the countdown life if the colors are matched ala 4-Star Fantastic / 4-Star Cyclops.

There could be more possibilities depending on what developers are willing to entertain (such as possible Professor X ability cloning since R.Skull took his brain in the Avengers vs. X-Men conflict. Introducing Red Skull and Hydra could also allow a PVE event similar to "Enemy of the State" with a Hydra brainwashed Captain America.

you should make a draft of this guy. I don't like the idea of power stealing for Red Skull myself. But I really like Strategic Genius idea. Could be worded like: if one doesn't already exist create a strategy tile on any basic tile. while cd tile exist the enemy team can't gain AP in that color.

Aerospade777

I'm thinking that the red power is a good but pointless if the enemy barely needs red. Maybe when it's destroyed, both teams can get like 3 red. It would help the black power a lot. Also what if instead you made it more interesting than a trap tile, but instead it was a fortified countdown that went back up (like imaginaut) but every time Red Skull SPECIFICALLY made the match. It makes it seem like oppression since that's what he's all about.

OneLastGambit

Aerospade777 wrote:

I'm thinking that the red power is a good but pointless if the enemy barely needs red. Maybe when it's destroyed, both teams can get like 3 red. It would help the black power a lot. Also what if instead you made it more interesting than a trap tile, but instead it was a fortified countdown that went back up (like imaginaut) but every time Red Skull SPECIFICALLY made the match. It makes it seem like oppression since that's what he's all about.

The only issue here is if he does not tank this power would be awful (see: Vision)

therightwaye

I decided to make a new version of him. see viewtopic.php?f=21&t=61350

with a 3 to tag along:
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=61352