Forum thread

aesthetocyst

Forum thread

alphabeta

Great work

Let's see if this gets an official response because it deserves one

The Bob The

Dang. AND they're tile movers. I don't get it.

vinsensual

Any one thing about the Sentries make everything else about them so much worse. Stupidly high health makes for longer fights. Longer fights mean more special tiles. More special tiles means more heals and more crit tile generation. And they're 4.5x of course. Not enough special tiles? Ok, Swarm. There's practically no board control against Sentries.

fmftint

The sad part, the developers should have all this data available in house. Why is it the players should map, analyze, and point out huge discrepancies?

AlexxKats

Logged in to help make this green

Kjempen

Logged in too, to help make this post green too.

I always said something ain't right when these sentries scaled up past level 300 (around that point they start getting a lot harder to beat). And this sort of scaling I face without levelling any 5*s, so this probably affects a relatively large portion of the playerbase.

AXP_isme

As ever, good analysis Aes. I have a few questions:
The core contention about health and match damage of ultron sentries is based on relatively few points in your data set. Are you confident in these observations given that they are the ones driving the conclusions?
There are relatively few high level data points for other goon types in the data set. Is it reasonable to assume that this only applies to sentries just because they are the only goon class where we observe this happening?
Given that most goons are not tile movers is it reasonable to compare match damage of sentries to that of ninjas, for instance? If we plot power damage for non-tile movers against sentries does that change how we view the relative scaling?
Is this just the way that scaling works? We all know that below a certain threshold (~300 from memory) scaling behaviour is pretty linear and then changes to be more like exponential. There has been a fair amount of discussion recently about how boosted champed 4*s above a certain level can hold their own in a 5* world.
Does the sentries power damage (protect, strike, attack tile strength) scale in the same way. Are we just concentrating on a limited view of scaling that affects a combined match damage plus power level (possibly plus health) metric but balanced more to match damage in this example?

Please don't think that I'm trying to discredit your analysis or defend what looks like indefensible scaling. I don't like facing high level sentries any more than the next person.

Polares

For anybody that played Strange event with a high level roster it was obvious Ultron Sentries were broken. Now we also have analytic data to back what we all saw.

Devs MUST address this, and nerf Ultron Sentries ASAP.

Great Work aes!

PS: It is a pity we don't have something similar to powers. If we had, I think muscles would be the next ones on the list, both their yellow and blue are way overpowered. If you feel bored this might be your next task

Fightmastermpq

The Bob The wrote:

Dang. AND they're tile movers. I don't get it.

Not just tile movers, but they shake the board before EVERY move which generates cascades and with that match damage behind it.....so OP.

You know how fighting Rulk with 5*s is super annoying because of his red triggering every turn? Fighting sentry goons is like fighting a team of 3 rulks.....but with 5* match damage behind it. It's miserable.

Dekliko1978

alphabeta wrote:

Great work

Let's see if this gets an official response because it deserves one

They will officially respond to this disaster just after they respond to Boss Rush.

@Aesthetocyst, great work once again. Maybe the dev team can hire you to do some consulting before they release the next pile of .... on us?

CNash

Polares wrote:

PS: It is a pity we don't have something similar to powers. If we had, I think muscles would be the next ones on the list, both their yellow and blue are way overpowered. If you feel bored this might be your next task

I thought about this too, but then we have no way of knowing what level (1-5) the goons' powers are set to in any given match. I suspect they're always at 5/5/5, but since there's no actual way to validate this, it could skew the data.

bbigler

Agreed. The new Ultron goons have both regular turn matching along with passive powers, they do seem unfair.

Polares

CNash wrote:

Polares wrote:

PS: It is a pity we don't have something similar to powers. If we had, I think muscles would be the next ones on the list, both their yellow and blue are way overpowered. If you feel bored this might be your next task

I thought about this too, but then we have no way of knowing what level (1-5) the goons' powers are set to in any given match. I suspect they're always at 5/5/5, but since there's no actual way to validate this, it could skew the data.

But it really doesn't matter how many covers they are using, goons are not exactly like chars, level is good enough to create the graph. It is not like they change which powers they have at 5 in each event. For any given event my 430 level Muscles create the same crazy strike tiles and do the same amount of AoE damage.

What it would be hard is comparing powers between them I guess, because they are quite different and the number of turns in the countdown is also very important, if they just appear like all the passives (Hand ninjas, Ultron sentries), etc.

PS: This is why Muscle yellow is so crazy overpowered, it is just 3AP, and after 3 turns it creates the strikes. Super fast, super strong. Clearly OP.

Heartburn

i never under stood why the goons have soo much health they should be glass like the doom bots with the heroes having the high HP pools (exceptions maybe the iso mutants, mindless ones) was playing the meet R&G and jugs had 19k health and the muscles had 13K each they should be like half so i can make a choice of getting them or juggs, it was juggs hands down first each time, unless some tiles came out, 2 x +970, where it was a retreat or get bludgeoned to death.

an1979

"Competence", "competence"... under which letter in dictionary this strange word is placed?

zodiac339

Fightmastermpq wrote:

The Bob The wrote:

Dang. AND they're tile movers. I don't get it.

Not just tile movers, but they shake the board before EVERY move which generates cascades and with that match damage behind it.....so OP.

You know how fighting Rulk with 5*s is super annoying because of his red triggering every turn? Fighting sentry goons is like fighting a team of 3 rulks.....but with 5* match damage behind it. It's miserable.

Swarm is also missing the "destroyed tiles do not cause damage" stipulation that even several moves with a cost (Mastermind Excello, Yancy Street Special, Power of Attorney) have, so it's Swarm (destroyed tile damage), cascade (match damage), and special tiles (for further damage).
Naturally, the wave missions during Strange Sights and Deadpool Dailies shows off the additional issue of providing that massive AP pool. Thankfully, Ultron is oddly weak when compared to all the other junk.

SirLanik

Something I feel is being neglected here, in what appears otherwise to be a thorough review of data- at what roster levels do you need to be at to start seeing these insane goons?

I have 1-6 covers for every 5 star, and one champed 4 star, and my goons don't get anywhere close to these.

Do you need a level average of what, 400+ to see these? How many players are being affected by these insane goons?

vudu3

Won't somebody think of the Doombots?! The poor, poor Doombots.