D3 must be happy with the OML/PHX meta

Orion

I say that because they've done nothing to change the status quo. With Strange moving into the Latest Legends, there's now a ridiculous 8 5*s in the Classics. I'd love to be able to get more covers for Black-Suit Spidey, IM46 or Goblin, but now the chance of pulling one of those covers is a paltry 1.9%.

So pull Latest Legends, right? That will give you a better chance of maxing someone! But let's look at the math. You need 13 covers to max someone and there are 3 5*s to choose from. On average, it will take 37 5* pulls to get that elusive 13-cover 5*. So 37 pulls translates to 247 Legendary pulls which costs 6175 CP. Even players who buy multiple Starks don't have that kind of CP stash.

There needs to be a 3rd tier of Legendary tokens now. Put SS/OML/PHX/BSS in the Classics for 15 CP. Put GG/5Cap/IM46/Hulk in a separate token for 20 CP. Then leave the latest at 25 CP. Give us some kind of chance to cover somebody instead of endlessly diluting the pool so our 5* covers never go to the characters we want.

Daiches

Champ levels for 15CP? YES PLEASE!!

(This would have the complete opposite effect of what you wanted)

Orion

Daiches wrote:

Champ levels for 15CP? YES PLEASE!!

(This would have the complete opposite effect of what you wanted)

OK, so make each of them 20 CP. The point is, I want to be able to champ some of the other 5*s and I can't because the 5* covers are so widely distributed.

sza

A pitiful 1.9% chance of getting a 'classic' 5*. Wait, is Silver Surfer a character in this game? These undercovered older 5*'s are just going to collect dust. 3*'s and 4*s will see more time of day.

These are the announcements D3 made last year on the introduction of the legendary store:

Miles - Starting out, we're going to have him at 5% of the packs, but

as soon as we add another 5-Star we're going to be bumping him up, so the pack will be 90% 4-Stars, 10% 5-Stars, which is really exciting.

How do you earn Silver Surfer and future 5-Star characters? A: You can earn 5-star characters in Legendary packs. These packs will contain only 4-star characters and better. At first, the odds will consist of 95% 4-star characters and 5% for Silver Surfer.

The proportion of 5-Stars in these packs will increase when we release two more 5-Star characters.

They don't seem to be making the necessary adjustments that their comments alluded to. Or maybe it's just me and I am completely misinterpreting their announcements. Regardless, there are several paths to cover 4*s including the older ones and no clear path to cover 5*s.

PorkBelly

They should definitely switch to 3 tokens - Keep Latest Legends the same and create two tokens with different 5*s for 20cp.

bbigler

Orion wrote:

I say that because they've done nothing to change the status quo. With Strange moving into the Latest Legends, there's now a ridiculous 8 5*s in the Classics. I'd love to be able to get more covers for Black-Suit Spidey, IM46 or Goblin, but now the chance of pulling one of those covers is a paltry 1.9%.

So pull Latest Legends, right? That will give you a better chance of maxing someone! But let's look at the math. You need 13 covers to max someone and there are 3 5*s to choose from. On average, it will take 37 5* pulls to get that elusive 13-cover 5*. So 37 pulls translates to 247 Legendary pulls which costs 6175 CP. Even players who buy multiple Starks don't have that kind of CP stash.

There needs to be a 3rd tier of Legendary tokens now. Put SS/OML/PHX/BSS in the Classics for 15 CP. Put GG/5Cap/IM46/Hulk in a separate token for 20 CP. Then leave the latest at 25 CP. Give us some kind of chance to cover somebody instead of endlessly diluting the pool so our 5* covers never go to the characters we want.

Your math is a little off; if you want to fully cover three 5* characters using Latest Legend Tokens, then you need about 45 x 5* pulls or more because of unwanted covers past 5. This translates into at least 300 Legendary Tokens, which would cost 7500 CP, but that's not how whales do it. They buy Starks regularly in order to empty entire vaults, which gives them a LT, plus all the covers and ISO they need. They continue to quickly hoard LTs and CPs by playing the game and being in an alliance of people who all do the same thing. So, the entire "buyers" alliance is quickly building up CPs. They get LTs from Champion rewards, Crash of Titans and VIP rewards. Once they have hoarded enough LTs and CPs to pull 300 times, they get the 5* covers they need.

The point is this: you need either 100 LT and 5000 CP, or 150 LT and 3750 CP, or 200 LT and 2500 CP, which is possible to do in a couple months if you spend a boat load of money. Also, I disagree with your proposed 3rd tier of LTs. If the oldest ones cost less to pull, then they're implying that the latest legends are better, which is not the case. OML is the oldest 5* and he's very good. Plus, the game is designed to have slower progression the further you go in it. It's all about diminishing returns - a reverse exponential curve. It's how they keep you playing the game by never getting to the end of it.

dsds

How about taking out 50% of the 5* in classics to raise the odds for the remainder. Every end of season, rotate the 5* characters. That way the amount of oml and pheonix combos will not continue to balloon as they are one of the first 5* released.
Heck have a third leg token, put half the 5* in it. And say those characters are out of rotation for the seaon, but if you want them, pay an extra 5cp. This way you can control what characters people get and use in pvp.

Nightglider1

dsds wrote:

How about taking out 50% of the 5* in classics to raise the odds for the remainder. Every end of season, rotate the 5* characters. That way the amount of oml and pheonix combos will not continue to balloon as they are one of the first 5* released.
Heck have a third leg token, put half the 5* in it. And say those characters are out of rotation for the seaon, but if you want them, pay an extra 5cp. This way you can control what characters people get and use in pvp.

Didn't they once do something similar (rotation) with heroics back in the day?

dsds

Nightglider1 wrote:

dsds wrote:

How about taking out 50% of the 5* in classics to raise the odds for the remainder. Every end of season, rotate the 5* characters. That way the amount of oml and pheonix combos will not continue to balloon as they are one of the first 5* released.
Heck have a third leg token, put half the 5* in it. And say those characters are out of rotation for the seaon, but if you want them, pay an extra 5cp. This way you can control what characters people get and use in pvp.

Didn't they once do something similar (rotation) with heroics back in the day?

Maybe but there was no way you could get any characters out of rotation. In my scenario, you could pay extra to get out of rotation characters.

The weakness of taking characters out of rotation was that you would have a out of rotation character taking up a roster slot and not being able to level him/her up for a long time. With my scenario, you can pay extra to level him/her if you really wanted to.

Also it separates half of them to other LTs.

bbigler

sza wrote:

A pitiful 1.9% chance of getting a 'classic' 5*. Wait, is Silver Surfer a character in this game? These undercovered older 5*'s are just going to collect dust. 3*'s and 4*s will see more time of day.

These are the announcements D3 made last year on the introduction of the legendary store:

Miles - Starting out, we're going to have him at 5% of the packs, but

as soon as we add another 5-Star we're going to be bumping him up, so the pack will be 90% 4-Stars, 10% 5-Stars, which is really exciting.

How do you earn Silver Surfer and future 5-Star characters? A: You can earn 5-star characters in Legendary packs. These packs will contain only 4-star characters and better. At first, the odds will consist of 95% 4-star characters and 5% for Silver Surfer.

The proportion of 5-Stars in these packs will increase when we release two more 5-Star characters.

They don't seem to be making the necessary adjustments that their comments alluded to. Or maybe it's just me and I am completely misinterpreting their announcements. Regardless, there are several paths to cover 4*s including the older ones and no clear path to cover 5*s.

They kept their word, the odds were 5%, then 10%, then 15%, which is what the total is now. 15% chance to get a 5* cover. If there are 10 x 5*s in that token pool, then the odds for each character are 1.5%.

sza

bbigler wrote:

They kept their word, the odds were 5%, then 10%, then 15%, which is what the total is now. 15% chance to get a 5* cover. If there are 10 x 5*s in that token pool, then the odds for each character are 1.5%.

Probably just me then. But the way I read it was there was a 5% chance of getting a 5*. Certainly not 5% chance of getting Surfer any more (not that I want him, just an example).

SummerGlau

Latest legends annoys me because some of them look Promising for me

(I only have two covers total for BW and BB (1 Each) but 4 Classic Legends with at least 3 Covers

on the other hand at least OML has his Yellow power

bbigler

Look at the history of the game and you will all understand. In the beginning when I started playing, there were 9 x 3*s which could only be obtained through Heroic Tokens. It was slow to accumulate those covers, but people did anyway. They kept releasing new 3*s which continued to dilute the odds in the Heroic Tokens. Later, they started rewarding 3*s as placement rewards. After that, DDQ came along and then 3* covers as progression rewards. Heroic Tokens still have the same odds to get a 3* cover of now 41 possible characters. Heroic Tokens also have a very small chance of getting a 4* cover, which I don't believe has changed either.

So now here we sit with Legendary Tokens that guarantee 4* with a possibility of 5*. Do you see where this is going? Do you see the pattern? They continue to release new 5*s making it harder to fully cover any one character, but I'm betting they will also introduce 5* rewards (SCL9), making it easier to cover them. Once we get around 25 x 5*s, then we'll start seeing 6* characters (Thanos, Dormammu, Galactus?), which can only be obtained through Legendary Tokens at a very small chance. They continue to release new 5*s and 6*s. Eventually, Legendary Tokens will be given out like candy (like Heroic Tokens) and 6* characters will be top progression and placement rewards. Perhaps the game will implode and everyone will quit before that day comes, but we are headed in that direction.

Phumade

bbigler wrote:

Orion wrote:

I say that because they've done nothing to change the status quo. With Strange moving into the Latest Legends, there's now a ridiculous 8 5*s in the Classics. I'd love to be able to get more covers for Black-Suit Spidey, IM46 or Goblin, but now the chance of pulling one of those covers is a paltry 1.9%.

So pull Latest Legends, right? That will give you a better chance of maxing someone! But let's look at the math. You need 13 covers to max someone and there are 3 5*s to choose from. On average, it will take 37 5* pulls to get that elusive 13-cover 5*. So 37 pulls translates to 247 Legendary pulls which costs 6175 CP. Even players who buy multiple Starks don't have that kind of CP stash.

There needs to be a 3rd tier of Legendary tokens now. Put SS/OML/PHX/BSS in the Classics for 15 CP. Put GG/5Cap/IM46/Hulk in a separate token for 20 CP. Then leave the latest at 25 CP. Give us some kind of chance to cover somebody instead of endlessly diluting the pool so our 5* covers never go to the characters we want.

Your math is a little off; if you want to fully cover three 5* characters using Latest Legend Tokens, then you need about 45 x 5* pulls or more because of unwanted covers past 5. This translates into at least 300 Legendary Tokens, which would cost 7500 CP, but that's not how whales do it. They buy Starks regularly in order to empty entire vaults, which gives them a LT, plus all the covers and ISO they need. They continue to quickly hoard LTs and CPs by playing the game and being in an alliance of people who all do the same thing. So, the entire "buyers" alliance is quickly building up CPs. They get LTs from Champion rewards, Crash of Titans and VIP rewards. Once they have hoarded enough LTs and CPs to pull 300 times, they get the 5* covers they need.

Don't forget that Latest Legend 5* receive cover protection for duplicate covers. So for LL 5*, it doesn't really matter what color the covers are with respect to getting to 13. CS will and has switched out the 6th cover as long as that hero is still the latest legend pack.

Personally, I think the fastest way to cover a hero is to hoard cp for their special vault (where its 25cp for 10%) then use your regular LT tokens once he enters the LL pack and then start buying LL draws.

LordXberk

Phumade wrote:

bbigler wrote:

Orion wrote:

I say that because they've done nothing to change the status quo. With Strange moving into the Latest Legends, there's now a ridiculous 8 5*s in the Classics. I'd love to be able to get more covers for Black-Suit Spidey, IM46 or Goblin, but now the chance of pulling one of those covers is a paltry 1.9%.

So pull Latest Legends, right? That will give you a better chance of maxing someone! But let's look at the math. You need 13 covers to max someone and there are 3 5*s to choose from. On average, it will take 37 5* pulls to get that elusive 13-cover 5*. So 37 pulls translates to 247 Legendary pulls which costs 6175 CP. Even players who buy multiple Starks don't have that kind of CP stash.

There needs to be a 3rd tier of Legendary tokens now. Put SS/OML/PHX/BSS in the Classics for 15 CP. Put GG/5Cap/IM46/Hulk in a separate token for 20 CP. Then leave the latest at 25 CP. Give us some kind of chance to cover somebody instead of endlessly diluting the pool so our 5* covers never go to the characters we want.

Your math is a little off; if you want to fully cover three 5* characters using Latest Legend Tokens, then you need about 45 x 5* pulls or more because of unwanted covers past 5. This translates into at least 300 Legendary Tokens, which would cost 7500 CP, but that's not how whales do it. They buy Starks regularly in order to empty entire vaults, which gives them a LT, plus all the covers and ISO they need. They continue to quickly hoard LTs and CPs by playing the game and being in an alliance of people who all do the same thing. So, the entire "buyers" alliance is quickly building up CPs. They get LTs from Champion rewards, Crash of Titans and VIP rewards. Once they have hoarded enough LTs and CPs to pull 300 times, they get the 5* covers they need.

Don't forget that Latest Legend 5* receive cover protection for duplicate covers. So for LL 5*, it doesn't really matter what color the covers are with respect to getting to 13. CS will and has switched out the 6th cover as long as that hero is still the latest legend pack.

Personally, I think the fastest way to cover a hero is to hoard cp for their special vault (where its 25cp for 10%) then use your regular LT tokens once he enters the LL pack and then start buying LL draws.

That's all fine and good (and I've done as much, having hoarded to get my 13th IM46 and 13th BB); however, I'm sitting on a 10 cover PHX that will likely never get covered. Not only are the odds super low I'll pull a PHX, but I have a 5/3/2 build (unsure of exact colors, but it's 5 in one), so I've got the risk I get a 6th cover. If they don't separate those Classics or change the distribution, I'm gonna never use PHX, BSSM, GG, Cap, Hulk, or SS. If they don't want to go that way, then lower the purchase cost from 720cp to something more reasonable.

If not, I'll just depend on eventual power creep and I'll only spend money on Latests.

smkspy

I.never 7nderstand why latest tokens exclude older 5 stars (and also keeper all 4 stars), but classics doesn't exclude older 4 stars. I mean, if I'm paying an extra 5 cp, I want a chance at every five star. Keep the top 3 at higher rates, but make the older ones available too.

UNC_Samurai

The solution is to begin incorporating 5* covers as placement and progression rewards in CL 9 and 10.

V1rusHunter

UNC_Samurai wrote:

The solution is to begin incorporating 5* covers as placement and progression rewards in CL 9 and 10.

Let's get on with it. Everyone wants the new clearance levels!

madsalad

Also make 4* CotT daily for CL9 and add a 5* CotT on a 5 day rotation for CL9.

Tromb2ch2

I liked the idea someone had where they do a rotating token based on season gem cover. So like the things you could pull in this season are all characters with red being their highest color. Maybe make these vaults be more because of the fewer options available but still.

Polares

LordXberk wrote:

Phumade wrote:

bbigler wrote:

Orion wrote:

I say that because they've done nothing to change the status quo. With Strange moving into the Latest Legends, there's now a ridiculous 8 5*s in the Classics. I'd love to be able to get more covers for Black-Suit Spidey, IM46 or Goblin, but now the chance of pulling one of those covers is a paltry 1.9%.

So pull Latest Legends, right? That will give you a better chance of maxing someone! But let's look at the math. You need 13 covers to max someone and there are 3 5*s to choose from. On average, it will take 37 5* pulls to get that elusive 13-cover 5*. So 37 pulls translates to 247 Legendary pulls which costs 6175 CP. Even players who buy multiple Starks don't have that kind of CP stash.

There needs to be a 3rd tier of Legendary tokens now. Put SS/OML/PHX/BSS in the Classics for 15 CP. Put GG/5Cap/IM46/Hulk in a separate token for 20 CP. Then leave the latest at 25 CP. Give us some kind of chance to cover somebody instead of endlessly diluting the pool so our 5* covers never go to the characters we want.

Your math is a little off; if you want to fully cover three 5* characters using Latest Legend Tokens, then you need about 45 x 5* pulls or more because of unwanted covers past 5. This translates into at least 300 Legendary Tokens, which would cost 7500 CP, but that's not how whales do it. They buy Starks regularly in order to empty entire vaults, which gives them a LT, plus all the covers and ISO they need. They continue to quickly hoard LTs and CPs by playing the game and being in an alliance of people who all do the same thing. So, the entire "buyers" alliance is quickly building up CPs. They get LTs from Champion rewards, Crash of Titans and VIP rewards. Once they have hoarded enough LTs and CPs to pull 300 times, they get the 5* covers they need.

Don't forget that Latest Legend 5* receive cover protection for duplicate covers. So for LL 5*, it doesn't really matter what color the covers are with respect to getting to 13. CS will and has switched out the 6th cover as long as that hero is still the latest legend pack.

Personally, I think the fastest way to cover a hero is to hoard cp for their special vault (where its 25cp for 10%) then use your regular LT tokens once he enters the LL pack and then start buying LL draws.

That's all fine and good (and I've done as much, having hoarded to get my 13th IM46 and 13th BB); however, I'm sitting on a 10 cover PHX that will likely never get covered. Not only are the odds super low I'll pull a PHX, but I have a 5/3/2 build (unsure of exact colors, but it's 5 in one), so I've got the risk I get a 6th cover. If they don't separate those Classics or change the distribution, I'm gonna never use PHX, BSSM, GG, Cap, Hulk, or SS. If they don't want to go that way, then lower the purchase cost from 720cp to something more reasonable.

If not, I'll just depend on eventual power creep and I'll only spend money on Latests.

Yeah I have GG(12), IM(10), and Spidey(8) with one color at 5 covers, so I have a 33% chance when I pull any of their covers to get a 6th. To make things even worse, this RNG is super sticky so I think the real chances of pulling a 6th are much bigger than 33%.

With those odds I have decided to go LLs until BBolt(8) comes to classic. I will try to max him and then go back to try to max GG and IM (and probably BBolt too).

=> We really need a new LT with GG, IM, Cap and Hulk and maybe with Spidey too, and another one for the rest of the 5s. I would even accept the price of all to go to 25CPs. But we really need bigger chances for each 5.

=> We also really need colorless covers for 5s. It is super annoying to get a 6th cover for a 5. Seriously, super annoying! (I have had to sell around 6 covers already)