What even ARE the Star tiers now?

The Herald

Looking to start a discussion and hopefully get noticed by the Dev team here...

What do you see the different bands of characters as?

My view:

1* Tutorial tier
2* Beginner's tier
3* Mandatory tier
4* Free to Play tier
5* Pay to Play tier

I see 3* as the "mandatory" tier since you need them for DDQ and they feed your 4*s.

4*s, while seeming to still being treated as a precious monetisation resource by the Dev team at times, is where the mere mortals play.

If you actually bankroll this game, in general you're likely playing with 5*s instead of using 4*s.

The collectability of the covers (plus needing 3*s to play DDQ, plus needing a wide net to catch knowing 4*s) is where casual ayers picking up chunks of HP for roster slots likely provides the casualPLUS income.

Anyone wildly disagree or have different insights?

The Bob The

I think 4*s are still at least partly a pay tier for most mortals not in competitive alliances. I left my casual alliance last year as I was completing my 3*s; as of this week, the member with the strongest roster just champed his first 4*, and his second-best-covered has 11 covers. Unless you're super competitive and belong to a strong alliance, 4*s still aren't a given (although CLs haven't been out long enough to gauge impact, I suspect they're going to speed things along).

chaos01

The Bob The wrote:

I think 4*s are still at least partly a pay tier for most mortals not in competitive alliances. I left my casual alliance last year as I was completing my 3*s; as of this week, the member with the strongest roster just champed his first 4*, and his second-best-covered has 11 covers. Unless you're super competitive and belong to a strong alliance, 4*s still aren't a given (although CLs haven't been out long enough to gauge impact, I suspect they're going to speed things along).

I think this is mostly true. I've been mostly f2p for my 868 days, never been in more than my casual alliance of real life friends and am now getting my 4 stars covered and levelled. I have 4 champs now with iceman on his way when I get another 19 CP. RNGensus hasn't been kind to me at around 8% for 5 stars and so many dupe 4's of colours I can use (iceman could be 15/3/4, kingpin 3/16/3) etc. So I would think you're pretty accurate in your level descriptions.

acescracked

If a player hoards CP\LL tokens for two to three seasons said player can join the pay to play 5* tier for free. Though, It was far easier before with cupcakes and fewer 5*s but still possible today.

With the changes made, maybe a three to four season hoard now.

carrion_pigeons

Right now, from a gameplay perspective, the 3* and 4* tiers are basically just different formats. There's a limited amount of overlap, but for the most part, 4* play is just 3* play that takes longer and has bigger numbers, and is less balanced. The thing that decides which format you get to play (after a certain period of wind-up) is how much time per day you're willing to devote to the game.

That won't stay true. More and more people are finishing the 3* tier and unless Strange does a lot to upset the meta, he isn't going to be that important for 3* play, so those people are increasingly just going to have to either bite the bullet and start grinding harder for 4*s or else accept a glacial pace of progression. Both of which will ultimately lead to disinterest in the game.

OneLastGambit

I disagree that there even is a P2W tier.


I've been a largely free player since I started 450 days ago and although my alliance has a couple of spenders which makes CP a bit easier to come by I've largely got by and earned usable 5* without paying for it.

Similarly there are big spenders who didn't pray hard enough to rngesus and still don't have usable 5* (granted they are rare but they exist)

The post seemed like a thinly veiled dig at the fact people CAN pay to win (more often). Part of the reason I've played this game as long as I have is that it requires no payment and every reward in the game is earnable without paying. A model many other games should follow.

The Herald

OneLastGambit wrote:

I disagree that there even is a P2W tier.


I've been a largely free player since I started 450 days ago and although my alliance has a couple of spenders which makes CP a bit easier to come by I've largely got by and earned usable 5* without paying for it.

Similarly there are big spenders who didn't pray hard enough to rngesus and still don't have usable 5* (granted they are rare but they exist)

The post seemed like a thinly veiled dig at the fact people CAN pay to win (more often). Part of the reason I've played this game as long as I have is that it requires no payment and every reward in the game is earnable without paying. A model many other games should follow.

Not my intention at all sorry!

Paying customers keep the lights on, and give players cresting the wave behind them something to play against.

My sly dig is aimed at 4* covers still being treated like a rarity instead of getting more distributed faster

wymtime

Something to really consider is when someone started and how competitive they are now and in the past. You can have championed 5* and be F2P or limited pay since it is all about RNG. Now if you are talking about level 550 max championed 5* that is P2W.
For players who are PVE orientated 4* are the top spot and will be slower to get 5* since you earn less CP then in PVP. Also PVE players have soft capped in the past and present so going into 5* tier can be more punishment then beneficial.
I would say this though to score higher in PVP you need 2 chmpioned buffed 4* or more importantly a high level 5* and championed buffed 4*.

Borstock

OneLastGambit wrote:

I disagree that there even is a P2W tier.


I've been a largely free player since I started 450 days ago and although my alliance has a couple of spenders which makes CP a bit easier to come by I've largely got by and earned usable 5* without paying for it.

Similarly there are big spenders who didn't pray hard enough to rngesus and still don't have usable 5* (granted they are rare but they exist)

The post seemed like a thinly veiled dig at the fact people CAN pay to win (more often). Part of the reason I've played this game as long as I have is that it requires no payment and every reward in the game is earnable without paying. A model many other games should follow.

I agree with all of this. Patience is key, as is a willingness to accept that you won't compete with big spenders, but you CAN earn everything freely, and that's a big reason why I still play.

El Satanno

The Herald wrote:

Looking to start a discussion and hopefully get noticed by the Dev team here...

What do you see the different bands of characters as?

My view:

1* Tutorial tier
2* Beginner's tier
3* Mandatory tier
4* Free to Play tier
5* Pay to Play tier

I see 3* as the "mandatory" tier since you need them for DDQ and they feed your 4*s.

4*s, while seeming to still being treated as a precious monetisation resource by the Dev team at times, is where the mere mortals play.

If you actually bankroll this game, in general you're likely playing with 5*s instead of using 4*s.

The collectability of the covers (plus needing 3*s to play DDQ, plus needing a wide net to catch knowing 4*s) is where casual ayers picking up chunks of HP for roster slots likely provides the casualPLUS income.

Anyone wildly disagree or have different insights?

I appreciate the sentiment behind your rationale, but I feel your emotion is doing the talking. The 5* are for the lucky and/or the spendy. I think carrion pigeons has a more accurate focus. It's time more than anything else that dictates your progression. Play a lot and you'll earn the big roster. I'm kinda proof of that concept. I've only spent about $250 in the 940-odd days I've played. Not all at once, either. Yet here I am with a champion Logan, Phoenix, and a 13-cover Surfer in addition to a smattering of covers for the other 5*s. I reckon I've played about an average of 2-4 hours a day the whole time. That's a ridiculous amount. I also got plenty lucky. But I think the completion of just about every damn progression ladder that the game has thrown at me for who knows how long now has more than a bit to do with it.

Yes, you can spend to accelerate that. Spend a ton and you'll end up like KDN. And poor. Spend a little and maybe you'll get lucky. Maybe not. I've got more than a couple alliance mates that have put far more money in than I have and still have 5* lineups that are on par or weaker than mine. RNGesus is a fickle god. And a **** one. But he's the one we have.

BassMuffinFIve

OneLastGambit wrote:

A model many other games should follow.

Please god no...

MPQ_Daywalker

I don't believe there is pay-to-win in this game -- there is only pay-to-progress-faster. As others in this thread have said, you can move from a casual to a competitive alliance and get covers faster (like The Bob The), or you can buy HP & CP and get covers that way, but you're only speeding up your progress.

Each star tier takes longer to get through, and either takes more playing or more spending, depending on how you quickly want to do it. The 1* to 2* progression is in the prologue; the 2* to 3* progression takes longer but is sped up by 3* covers in placement & progression, DDQ and 2* champions. The 3* to 4* progression takes even longer; championing has definitely helped, and the progression covers in CL7+ will continue to, but the bulk of a person's advancement to collect all the covers for 41 4* characters continues to be RNG, from legendary tokens. And then the 5* transition was meant to take the longest of all, where everything was going to be determined by RNG. That changed (especially when they made CP able to be purchased, but also when they have made 5* covers progression rewards, like in the first Civil War) but the concept remains the same: the vast majority of your progress in the final tier is determined by RNG.

One of the things I like the most about this game, like OneLastGambit said, is that there is no requirement to pay to progress. You can pay, or you can just make up for it by playing more. And even if you get the covers you need, you still have to continue to play the game to get ISO. I believe that's the whole reason why ISO is so expensive to buy in the game -- it's Demiurge's way to force people to play the game, even if they spend money to get the covers they want.

I'm on Day 802 and seven months ago I didn't have one championed 4*. Today I have 13 champion 4*s and plan to champ two more within the next week. In those seven months I have spent zero dollars. In the game total, I have spent $60 (of which most were gift cards -- $20 of that was my own money). I've never been in a competitive alliance. But I play the game a lot, because I enjoy it, and I like setting progression goals and then achieving them.

It's fairly common in free mobile games in which to provide ways to progress without spending money, but in my opinion MPQ has done a pretty good job at balancing the free vs. pay aspects of the game. Yes, others are ahead of me and have championed 5*s... but there have always been people ahead of me in this game; I'm used to it. I will get championed 5*s, eventually. Right now I'm having fun just filling out the 4* tier.

Jarvind

aesthetocyst wrote:

BassMuffinFIve wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

A model many other games should follow.

Please god no...

Exactly. OOLG needs to get around more. Freemium games that monetize aesthetics—alternate visuals, premium sound, etc—rather than content / progress are where it's at.

I think he just meant that the part other games should follow is that you CAN earn all of the rewards without paying. There are lots of games out there where you literally cannot ever get the best stuff no matter how much you play, which isn't true of MPQ.

CNash

Treating 4*s as super-rare commodities no longer makes sense from a gameplay perspective, and it hasn't made sense from an overall perspective for long time - at least since the last 3* (Bullseye?) was released.

The vast majority of Demiurge's effort now goes into creating new 4*s and 5*s. They hype them up, release them to much fanfare... but an average user can't actually play with them, and even for a paying user to do so requires a huge cash investment to extract 13 covers from the RNG. Meanwhile, until recently the 3* tier lay stagnant. Nothing new to see here. A 3* player sees the ever-increasing pool of 4*s not as something to aspire to, but as a neverending grind. He might be lucky enough to get 13 covers for a high-tier 4* early on, which will help him get more... or he might be unlucky and have an even spread of 40 4*s with 5 covers each, as unusable as if he didn't have them in the first place.

The 4* tier has become the metagame, but Demiurge is still treating them as shiny, unattainable baubles. This needs to change.

broll

My view:

1* Baby's First tier
2* Give Us This Day Our Daily Bread tier
3* Big Boy Allowance tier
4* What now I have to work for it? tier
5* RNGsus SAVE ME!! tier

broll

CNash wrote:

Meanwhile, until recently the 3* tier lay stagnant. Nothing new to see here. A 3* player sees the ever-increasing pool of 4*s not as something to aspire to, but as a neverending grind. He might be lucky enough to get 13 covers for a high-tier 4* early on, which will help him get more... or he might be unlucky and have an even spread of 40 4*s with 5 covers each, as unusable as if he didn't have them in the first place.

I can agree with this. I'm almost ready to start really diving into the 4* tier after championing 90% of the 3* tier. I currently have about 3 4* with 10 covers and a spread of all the other down to single covered characters. I'm honestly dreading moving into the 4*/5* land and being mostly at the will of RNG. I've debated just not going for 4* and hoarding all CP and LT until either I start hitting max champ on 3* or they start making it a lot easier to get 4*/5*s.

I'm also not thrilled that Strange is getting a 3*. I'm fine with them closing off the 3* and below tiers and moving forward, this feels like a step backward. It's frustrating to be racing towards the finish line of championing all 3* then the move the finish line on the last sprint.

OneLastGambit

Jarvind wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

BassMuffinFIve wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

A model many other games should follow.

Please god no...

Exactly. OOLG needs to get around more. Freemium games that monetize aesthetics—alternate visuals, premium sound, etc—rather than content / progress are where it's at.

I think he just meant that the part other games should follow is that you CAN earn all of the rewards without paying. There are lots of games out there where you literally cannot ever get the best stuff no matter how much you play, which isn't true of MPQ.

Correct. I just meant all games should make it so you CAN pay to advance but not it be a requirement like many do.

My apologies OP I misread the sentiment behind the post.

Vhailorx

acescracked wrote:

If a player hoards CP\LL tokens for two to three seasons said player can join the pay to play 5* tier for free. Though, It was far easier before with cupcakes and fewer 5*s but still possible today.

With the changes made, maybe a three to four season hoard now.

I think it takes 205+ LT pulls before one can reasonably expect to cover at least 1 of the 3 available 5*s. I dont think a few seasons will get it done. . .

Overall, i agree with others that roster strength is determined by the combination of time spent playing and money spent. You can spend a lot of time grinding, or a lot of money whaling. Or you can do both.

I woupd also add that when you play can have a big effect on rodter strength. Consider two hypothetical players who had decent 4* rosters in sept. 2015 when 5*s came out. Player A played hard for 4 months and then went casual for 4 months. Player B played casually for 4 months and then went hardcore for 4 months. I think that Player A will probably end up with the more roster because they will have earned most id thwir CP/LTs earlier, when the pools were smaller. Player A is more likely to have lots of rulk/cyc/ice/oml covers, but fewer GG/nova/punmax/quake covers. Player B will likely have about the same number of covers soread evenly across all those characters.