A case in favor of current drop rates

LeafHyren

It would be nice to have that Expert Influence after 10 BFZ big boxes. Or at least a duplicate mythic in every box, it is disappointing to see all those duplicates flashing on the screen. But I am a regular and have enough, would like more but so would all of us (probably all of us).

What if it was easy, if everyone had that Expert Influence and many more of the top cards?

The game would implode. There wouldn’t be a balance of power. There is some of that power creep, however it’s a fair to those who play. It is better to have power creep than power kill, an increase in drop rates would make for a larger top tier.

There is a problem with power creep, but what we need is power balance not a uniform increase in power.
One of these days I hope to that that allusive blue mythic, but I am happy it is that difficult to obtain.

What would you wonderful people suggest to balance power or improve the disheartening wasteful feeling of a big box full of duplicates?

Andrea

If everybody gets the rare card it needs then there is just more balance than there is now.

Now a few lucky (or whales) have good cards.
The rest just long for the right big box to have 1 mythic (possibly one decent enough, if it not a duplicate, I mean)

A.

LeafHyren

Andrea wrote:

If everybody gets the rare card it needs then there is just more balance than there is now.

A.

Equality is not balance however, especially in a competitive game.

glggwp

there can be more creativity going on when players have more options (more cards) at disposal.

yunnnn

LeafHyren wrote:

What would you wonderful people suggest to balance power or improve the disheartening wasteful feeling of a big box full of duplicates?

You've actually nailed the point precisely: "The disheartening wasteful feeling of a big box full of duplicates".

The general complaints about drop rates can be summed up as:
1. It feels bad to open a big box and get a single rare (a dupe of course).
2. Spending 20$ for a big box to get nothing feels bad.
3. Getting dupes in the same booster pack is stupid and feels bad.
4. The relative low number of cards in the set vs the high number of mythics makes whaling feel bad. After a couple of boxes, everything is a dupe and you're only looking forward to the mythic, which may just never come.

TL;DR: Once you've opened a couple of boxes, opening more almost always feels bad. This should not be the case in a game that is trying to get you to buy as much as possible! There is no feeling of progress made when everything is a dupe. And when it costs a relatively high amount, it is incredibly discouraging.

There are many solutions to this, which people have already pointed out:
1. Remove dupes from the same booster pack. It will increase the morale of pack opening by miles.
2. There needs to be a better guarantee of high quality cards, especially when a big box costs 20$. The IAP in this game is way more expensive than other games, and the game operators need to realize this and compensate accordingly.
3. There is no progress made when everything opened is a dupe. Big Boxes need to give a special token, and 5 or 10 of these tokens can be traded in for any mythic or promo. The point here is to make it feel like the player is progressing. If someone sinks 200$ into the game and nothing happens... guess what? They are never going to iap again.

The game operators simply need to provide a rewarding IAP experience. Right now, the most satisfied players are the non-IAPers who are glad to get whatever they can. It doesn't matter if the server crashes or cards don't work, because they didn't put monetary investment in the game! If the experience of IAPing feels bad, why would anyone want to IAP?

LeafHyren

yunnnn wrote:

LeafHyren wrote:

3. There is no progress made when everything opened is a dupe. Big Boxes need to give a special token, and 5 or 10 of these tokens can be traded in for any mythic or promo. The point here is to make it feel like the player is progressing. If someone sinks 200$ into the game and nothing happens... guess what? They are never going to iap again.

It would be great if duplicate mythics would be converted to a third kind of purchasing means, such as your suggested point system of some king of Mythic Crystal. That way at least a duplicate mythic won't burn so badly. Great Suggestions.

Andrea

yunnnn wrote:

LeafHyren wrote:

What would you wonderful people suggest to balance power or improve the disheartening wasteful feeling of a big box full of duplicates?

You've actually nailed the point precisely: "The disheartening wasteful feeling of a big box full of duplicates".

The general complaints about drop rates can be summed up as:
1. It feels bad to open a big box and get a single rare (a dupe of course).
2. Spending 20$ for a big box to get nothing feels bad.
3. Getting dupes in the same booster pack is stupid and feels bad.
4. The relative low number of cards in the set vs the high number of mythics makes whaling feel bad. After a couple of boxes, everything is a dupe and you're only looking forward to the mythic, which may just never come.

TL;DR: Once you've opened a couple of boxes, opening more almost always feels bad. This should not be the case in a game that is trying to get you to buy as much as possible! There is no feeling of progress made when everything is a dupe. And when it costs a relatively high amount, it is incredibly discouraging.

There are many solutions to this, which people have already pointed out:
1. Remove dupes from the same booster pack. It will increase the morale of pack opening by miles.
2. There needs to be a better guarantee of high quality cards, especially when a big box costs 20$. The IAP in this game is way more expensive than other games, and the game operators need to realize this and compensate accordingly.
3. There is no progress made when everything opened is a dupe. Big Boxes need to give a special token, and 5 or 10 of these tokens can be traded in for any mythic or promo. The point here is to make it feel like the player is progressing. If someone sinks 200$ into the game and nothing happens... guess what? They are never going to iap again.

THIS nails the situation exactly.

THEMAGICkMAN

I had an idea of trading 2 dupes of the same card for any card of the same rarity from that set. Although then people would have access to literally every card very quickly, maybe someone could build on this idea?

LeafHyren

THEMAGICkMAN wrote:

I had an idea of trading 2 dupes of the same card for any card of the same rarity from that set. Although then people would have access to literally every card very quickly, maybe someone could build on this idea?

10 mythic duplicates of the same set... It is a steep price but with the coalition rewards being just as unrewarding those 10 can quickly add up. And its steep enough that few if any players will abuse it systematically.

EDHdad

Everyone in Puzzle Quest having access to Exert Influence is no different from everyone in poker having access to the Queen of Spades. It's a strong card, but having it doesn't win you the game.

I'm Platinum in all 5 colors. I expect people to have good decks. I am prepared for those decks. Or at least, I'm as prepared as I can be with the card pool that I have.

In Paper Magic, everyone has access to every card in every format. Yet, it's been going strong for 23 years. In paper Magic, if a card is overpowering a format, they usually will restrict it or ban it from that format. In this game, when a card causes grief, they can Nerf it. Or make better removal.

glggwp

all these suggestions are so easy to implement and being brought up on a weekly basis. however, d3 and hibernum simply keep their mouth shut and continue down the road of encouraging people not to pay. looking at the record number of promo cards (costing north of $30 each) in the small expansion like EMN, i only feel the desperation of sucking out as much money as possible before nobody gives a **** of this game real soon.

LeafHyren

glggwp wrote:

all these suggestions are so easy to implement and being brought up on a weekly basis. however, d3 and hibernum simply keep their mouth shut and continue down the road of encouraging people not to pay. looking at the record number of promo cards (costing north of $30 each) in the small expansion like EMN, i only feel the desperation of sucking out as much money as possible before nobody gives a tinykitty of this game real soon.

That new set does seem like a way to add more exclusives at a high price. And I am a sucker, I am going to get that new werewolf and have fun using it with Arlinn... sadly that is the way to get a good card this days. But I am done purchasing crystals. Nothing good ever comes out of that.

Now good luck making more people happy with exclusives other than me and a few others foolish enough.

However, increasing the drop rate is not the best solution to this problem.

Leaffe

They are simply using the Hook Model to promote spending behavior (and drive investment). Variable rewards tend to reinforce repetitive activity, EVEN IF (some would say especially if) you do not get the quality of reward you want. Yes, it feels bad...but that bad feeling triggers your brain to attempt to get more dopamine--hence, you actually end up spending more money on the game.

It will turn off a few low-investment individuals, but it will also drive a much greater spend from whales. Mobile games (well, F2P-model microtransactions) are all basically legal experiments on humans to determine optimum spending behavior.

LeafHyren

Leaffe wrote:

They are simply using the Hook Model to promote spending behavior (and drive investment). Variable rewards tend to reinforce repetitive activity, EVEN IF (some would say especially if) you do not get the quality of reward you want. Yes, it feels bad...but that bad feeling triggers your brain to attempt to get more dopamine--hence, you actually end up spending more money on the game.

It will turn off a few low-investment individuals, but it will also drive a much greater spend from whales. Mobile games (well, F2P-model microtransactions) are all basically legal experiments on humans to determine optimum spending behavior.

Except the reward is no longer fulfilling. Instead of leaving us wanting more it reinforces how silly it is to buy crystals. I believe that about exclusives, so if that is the plan well done for them. I'll spend much less money on guarantees. Talk about power creep models, if I am buying a specific cards for too much money they need to be Olivia's and Omnath's. Is it sustainable? in two or three purchases I won't have a need for powerful exclusive cards, and the way to fix that is a higher tier of powerful cards! hahaha At some point I will feel like a fraud buying my way into power this way, and what to do with unfairness to those that don't buy?

Is the drop rate that low to increase exclusives sales? I do not think so. But the correlation is there, intended or not. That is why this drop rate should be addressed with a new model to deal with duplicates. That would make the current good moves more rewarding, such as coalition play, and the sting from a duplicate mythic in a big box significantly more palatable.

Nitymp

As someone who has spent a fair amount on this game so far, I have definitely come to realise that buying crystals and then a BB is just the stupidest thing i could do. Might as well take the money and flush it down the toilet. So I have stopped buying crystals and just gain them through the events and QB.

The exclusives and PWs, however, I feel are actually worth it and have bought a few of those. Except the junk mythics that they put on sale.

shteev

EDHdad wrote:

In Paper Magic, everyone has access to every card in every format. Yet, it's been going strong for 23 years.

Mm. You might notice that the difference in power level between rarities in paper is lower than it is in MPQ, by about 5,000%.

MaxMagic420

Well, if it helps anybody's argument, I just pulled two zada, hedron grinder out of the BFZ daily reward pack. No point in saying the obvious, we're all thinking it.