Anyone one else hate fighting Koth?

KLALEARA

For every other PW, I play a bit differently, depending who it is, and what cards they throw down.

But Koth. Even when I win, I still hate facing him. Cause I have to throw almost all strategy out the window, and almost entirely focus on just getting rid of red gems (Which lets be honest, it usually just gives him more red gems to play with). Nothing is worse seeing 2 cascades of red, fill all 6 of his cards.

Unless the gem board is super nice to me (Which is super rare), I almost never get enough mana to compete against his. The only PW's I've won against Koth with, are ones that have mana gain of their own (With the nerf to 9 cost, makes it even harder).

So curious if others have suggestions of playstyle against Koth? I don't want to tear apart my deck JUST to counter Koth, as I love my current deck. So curious if people just let him have red for days, and work on themselves? Or what they do.

moogus

It can definitely be frustrating to play against Koth, particularly if he gets a few lucky red cascades. As you pointed out, even if you go for red mana denial, there is sometimes nothing you can do against his first ability. Some advice:

1) Red mana denial is most important for the first six turns of the game against Koth, to prevent him from getting crazy starts, or allowing you to get an edge even if he can't get any red matches. After he's got his first ability up, it's a lot more uncertain, but you don't want to already be behind at this point.

2) Conserve your removal until he's played out his hand. You can usually get a 2-for-1 or better if you wait a bit before removing his threats. Koth will often play his whole hand and then be in a spot where he's simply drawing off his deck. This is the ideal time to clean up the board.

3) Although Koth can play some really brutal red cards, the most dangerous thing he can get is extra card draw. Since he can generate so much mana, any reliable card advantage is very dangerous. Try to immediately destroy any creatures or supports he plays that can draw extra cards like tamiyo's journal or the 4/5 red/blue guy. It's important to understand his increased mana generation rate only has minimal advantage if he's limited to one card per turn.

EDHdad

Match red gems and keep killing his stuff.

KLALEARA

moogus wrote:

It can definitely be frustrating to play against Koth, particularly if he gets a few lucky red cascades. As you pointed out, even if you go for red mana denial, there is sometimes nothing you can do against his first ability. Some advice:

1) Red mana denial is most important for the first six turns of the game against Koth, to prevent him from getting crazy starts, or allowing you to get an edge even if he can't get any red matches. After he's got his first ability up, it's a lot more uncertain, but you don't want to already be behind at this point.

2) Conserve your removal until he's played out his hand. You can usually get a 2-for-1 or better if you wait a bit before removing his threats. Koth will often play his whole hand and then be in a spot where he's simply drawing off his deck. This is the ideal time to clean up the board.

3) Although Koth can play some really brutal red cards, the most dangerous thing he can get is extra card draw. Since he can generate so much mana, any reliable card advantage is very dangerous. Try to immediately destroy any creatures or supports he plays that can draw extra cards like tamiyo's journal or the 4/5 red/blue guy. It's important to understand his increased mana generation rate only has minimal advantage if he's limited to one card per turn.

I currently don't actually have only 1 real hate, and its really high cost. Probably need to add more. Didn't think about holding my kill spells till he plays his hand, it is a good idea. Thanks for the help.

Abogmar

Yeah he is a tough one but I think encountering him is the closest to pvp we will ever get. The reason he feels so strong is (in my opinion), that the AI can pilot his deck really well because it is quite simple. Most players would spam the first ability aswell and just vomit out their hand. So yeah he feels stronger than most other PW but in most part because he isn't crippled like other PW who rely on their other skills.

I am currently thinking about buying and leveling him, do you guys think he will recieve a nerf?Kinda unsure about that...

blacklotus

Abogmar wrote:

Yeah he is a tough one but I think encountering him is the closest to pvp we will ever get. The reason he feels so strong is (in my opinion), that the AI can pilot his deck really well because it is quite simple. Most players would spam the first ability aswell and just vomit out their hand. So yeah he feels stronger than most other PW but in most part because he isn't crippled like other PW who rely on their other skills.

I am currently thinking about buying and leveling him, do you guys think he will recieve a nerf?Kinda unsure about that...

you should go ahead n buy him. he is one of the best pw in the roster. definitely on par with post-nerf Kiora.

i don't think d3 will nerf him back to anywhere near his original form.
his original was weak: +7 for red, -1 for b/g, -2 for u/w, his current 1st and 2nd abilities were the other way around.

the advantage is he cost only 250 crystals and 80k runes to max level, compared to 550 to 950 crystals and 160k runes for dual Color planeswalkers.

Abogmar

blacklotus wrote:

you should go ahead n buy him. he is one of the best pw in the roster. definitely on par with post-nerf Kiora.

i don't think d3 will nerf him back to anywhere near his original form.
his original was weak: +7 for red, -1 for b/g, -2 for u/w, his current 1st and 2nd abilities were the other way around.

the advantage is he cost only 250 crystals and 80k runes to max level, compared to 550 to 950 crystals and 160k runes for dual Color planeswalkers.

Yeah I hope so!THx for the advice. Gonna buy him when I have enough runes (rune farming is pain btw.)

Foznertep

I don't convert my duplicates until I get a new PW, gives a nice boost