Stop pulling buffs out of a hat

2»

Comments

  • El Satanno
    El Satanno Posts: 1,005 Chairperson of the Boards
    CT1888 wrote:
    El Satanno wrote:
    simonsez wrote:
    How is it I post a thread about how this week's buff list is less than helpful to 4* players trying to compete against 5* players, and half the responses are from people saying they're having no problems using their 3*s vs other 3*'s?

    I'm so upset right now that you mentioned this before I could. Reading comprehension skills not topping the list of many of our fellow forum-goers. icon_lol.gif
    Or it could be that people were refuting the last point of the original post as, for many people, it was not comparatively unplayable.

    Sure, we can take anything out of context to make a point but that defeats the purpose of the discussion to begin with.

    Let's paraphrase the OP, hm? Devs have stated that 4* boosts are designed to make 4* characters competitive with 5* characters. Boosted 4* characters this week have been either been Story-specialized or outright bad. Therefore, "pulling buffs out of a hat" undermines the practice of boosting 4* characters. QED.
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    El Satanno wrote:
    Boosted 4* characters this week have been either been Story-specialized or outright bad.
    One can argue that off-season week is the best time to boost the story-specialists since it has less impact on PvP. As for the outright bad ones... The devs want to encourage us to use everyone, so not boosting subpar characters would be counterproductive. Really, the only fair way to do it is exactly what they have been doing: A set rotation so everyone gets boosted with regular intervals. But until all characters can be considered "good" there is going to be some weeks that are better than others.
  • CT1888
    CT1888 Posts: 1,201 Chairperson of the Boards
    El Satanno wrote:
    Sure, we can take anything out of context to make a point but that defeats the purpose of the discussion to begin with.

    Let's paraphrase the OP, hm? Devs have stated that 4* boosts are designed to make 4* characters competitive with 5* characters. Boosted 4* characters this week have been either been Story-specialized or outright bad. Therefore, "pulling buffs out of a hat" undermines the practice of boosting 4* characters. QED.
    The only thing about focusing in this fashion is that it is saying that top end pvp is more important than balance across the rest of the game.
    As was pointed out up thread, the characters are rotated through, so there are going to be times when the buffs suck for some people.
    Drop a tier and it's the same; 3* buffs exist to help fight into 4* territory, and due to the lack of high health 4*s it worked out well for those rosters this time round. Other times the 3* buffs suck, and they can't get a look in against boosted Red Hulk and the likes.
    Sure, they could spread the top pvp characters out across the boosted cycle. Iceman then Thor, Red Hulk, Hulkbuster, Jean Grey, Cyclops, Deadpool, Moon Knight, Nova and X23 (or whoever is the best), but you'd still get gaps where people don't have the pvp specialist of the day covered/champed, and pve players could cry foul that they don't have their specialists some weeks (I appreciate that the above mentioned are good in Pve as well though). However they do it, they will never satisfy everyone.
  • El Satanno
    El Satanno Posts: 1,005 Chairperson of the Boards
    Quebbster wrote:
    El Satanno wrote:
    Boosted 4* characters this week have been either been Story-specialized or outright bad.
    One can argue that off-season week is the best time to boost the story-specialists since it has less impact on PvP. As for the outright bad ones... The devs want to encourage us to use everyone, so not boosting subpar characters would be counterproductive. Really, the only fair way to do it is exactly what they have been doing: A set rotation so everyone gets boosted with regular intervals. But until all characters can be considered "good" there is going to be some weeks that are better than others.

    Fair enough, however I think that side-steps the OP intent. That is the crop of boosted characters in question are of no use in Versus. Given that the devs wish for us to use everyone, would it not make more sense to specifically boost an equal portion of Versus- and Story-focused characters rather than the "out of a hat" approach that OP is lamenting?
    CT1888 wrote:
    The only thing about focusing in this fashion is that it is saying that top end pvp is more important than balance across the rest of the game.
    As was pointed out up thread, the characters are rotated through, so there are going to be times when the buffs suck for some people.
    Drop a tier and it's the same; 3* buffs exist to help fight into 4* territory, and due to the lack of high health 4*s it worked out well for those rosters this time round. Other times the 3* buffs suck, and they can't get a look in against boosted Red Hulk and the likes.
    Sure, they could spread the top pvp characters out across the boosted cycle. Iceman then Thor, Red Hulk, Hulkbuster, Jean Grey, Cyclops, Deadpool, Moon Knight, Nova and X23 (or whoever is the best), but you'd still get gaps where people don't have the pvp specialist of the day covered/champed, and pve players could cry foul that they don't have their specialists some weeks (I appreciate that the above mentioned are good in Pve as well though). However they do it, they will never satisfy everyone.

    You posted this while I was writing, but hey, my last line there pretty much does double-duty now! icon_e_biggrin.gif Why do we have to have "sucks for some people" when the obvious solution is to...drum roll, please...stop boosting characters at random!
  • CT1888
    CT1888 Posts: 1,201 Chairperson of the Boards
    El Satanno wrote:
    Fair enough, however I think that side-steps the OP intent. That is the crop of boosted characters in question are of no use in Versus.
    That's subjective. They might not be good against high level 5*s, but for others, they worked just fine for their level of play / expectations, got them to 900/1200/wherever.
    El Satanno wrote:
    You posted this while I was writing, but hey, my last line there pretty much does double-duty now! icon_e_biggrin.gif Why do we have to have "sucks for some people" when the obvious solution is to...drum roll, please...stop boosting characters at random!
    If you change the rota of 4*s to always include some good for pvp and some for Pve, then it still sucks for those who have yet to cover this week's ones and for the 3* players who constantly face a wall of boosted 4* pvp all stars, which is just as demoralising as for the 4* player getting all those 5*s.
    Would it make my game easier if one of the best was always boosted? Quite probably. Would it be fair for people across all tiers? Not likely.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    CT1888 wrote:
    That's subjective. They might not be good against high level 5*s
    THAT WAS MY POINT.
    simonsez wrote:
    If the idea of the weekly buffs is help 4* players keep up with 5* opponents, this week's buff list fails miserably.

    Sweet Christmas...
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    had 2 to choose from to go with my 405 oml. quake and drax. quake was great against 4s, but came up short against high level 5s. drax actually got more play from me than quake did. especially against high level teams. his red/purple/oml black combo was deadly. put out tons of damage and really was the only way I could handle oml/phx or a champ oml. but he did the job, trash tier or not. I only champed him because the game kept giving me covers. i'll probably never use him unboosted, but boosted, unless I have 4cyke or hb boosted, he'll see some playing time for me.
  • CT1888
    CT1888 Posts: 1,201 Chairperson of the Boards
    simonsez wrote:
    CT1888 wrote:
    That's subjective. They might not be good against high level 5*s
    THAT WAS MY POINT.
    simonsez wrote:
    If the idea of the weekly buffs is help 4* players keep up with 5* opponents, this week's buff list fails miserably.

    Sweet Christmas...
    And my point was that to modify the 4* buffs for the benefit of the 4* players chasing after the 5* players would be to the detriment of 3* players.

    And Lo! It has been reported that boosted Drax can do a number on high level 5*s. So the mix isn't useless after all (except for the excessively high iso costs to champion, meaning most folk have yet to champion him due to poor performance unboosted, which is a whole other issue, and to mix current pvp all stars in amongst the likes of him means folks won't be encouraged to level him, further reducing the diversity at higher level play the devs seem to want)
  • fight4thedream
    fight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    CT1888 wrote:
    The only thing about focusing in this fashion is that it is saying that top end pvp is more important than balance across the rest of the game.
    As was pointed out up thread, the characters are rotated through, so there are going to be times when the buffs suck for some people.
    Drop a tier and it's the same; 3* buffs exist to help fight into 4* territory, and due to the lack of high health 4*s it worked out well for those rosters this time round. Other times the 3* buffs suck, and they can't get a look in against boosted Red Hulk and the likes.
    Sure, they could spread the top pvp characters out across the boosted cycle. Iceman then Thor, Red Hulk, Hulkbuster, Jean Grey, Cyclops, Deadpool, Moon Knight, Nova and X23 (or whoever is the best), but you'd still get gaps where people don't have the pvp specialist of the day covered/champed, and pve players could cry foul that they don't have their specialists some weeks (I appreciate that the above mentioned are good in Pve as well though). However they do it, they will never satisfy everyone.

    I don't have a horse in this race but I think CT1888 brings a legitimate counter point to the OP's original point. If the ultimate goal is to improve the transitioning experience for both 3* and 4* players, then it would make sense that some weekly buffs should benefit one over the other. Of course that would only be true if buffs were planned, which brings us back to the OP. But if the devs were to adopt a planned buff system, how those buffs affect the playerbase as a whole would definitely need to be taken into consideration.
  • Jarvind
    Jarvind Posts: 1,684 Chairperson of the Boards
    While I understand the intent here, I actually prefer the random buffs. The weeks when there are no pvp specialists buffed are the weeks where the team compositions are actually interesting, because strategy actually becomes necessary. By contrast, when Hulkbuster is boosted, absolutely everyone fields him so they can lawlfaceroll their way to 1k.

    My only true beef is when heroic PVEs have a bad character selection, but I think I've only actually skipped two PVEs completely because of that - usually it is possible to field at least one decent 3-man team.
  • rkd80
    rkd80 Posts: 376
    I for one completely misunderstood the OP and assumed he was referring to buffs vs nerfs. The term OP should have used was 'boosted' to avoid confusion.
  • Hendross
    Hendross Posts: 762 Critical Contributor
    The top scorers in my bracket have tripled my score. I think it's time we change PvP.
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    Jarvind wrote:
    ....absolutely everyone fields him so they can lawlfaceroll their way to 1k.
    boosted rulk weeks are no "lawlfaceroll". I have a decent champed rulk and I hate, HATE, boosted rulk weeks in pvp. playing the "you drain me, I drain you" game has very little appeal to me. LOVE pve during rulk weeks though.

Categories