PVP is a disaster now, unless you have champed 5*

beyonderbub

Last night, joined Cage PVP late (1h 24m left); Slice 4; climbed using Cage/IM30/Thoress; didn't lose any matches, only got hit once I crossed the 900+ threshold; shielded and ended up in 4th. I got slammed by multiple folks thankfully after I shielded and only got one defensive win for +14. I didn't change my team once.

For the previous Fist bump pvp (slice 4) I ended up with the same score 900+; however, I started it from the very beginning and used more shields and was actually beat down several times but used the retals to climb back up ; placement however put me barely in top 50 (47th place)

Reading above, why wouldn't I always try for the bracket snipe and get better rewards with less effort and hp cost? I know it's no guarantee but if the reward is so much better, why wouldn't I adjust my PVP behavior to the first style of play all the time?

Sherlock1

Just like some other posts, i just wanted to tell OP that some players don t encounter any problem to make 1200+, and they don t necessarely have usable 5*...
In same time, i know some 3*-4* transitioners who suffer a lot with this new system: personally, i ll wait some more pvps to have a more accurate opinion about this system...

One thing for sure, "Pvp is a disaster now unless you have champed 5*" isn t true for all 4* rosters, at least for these 2 pvps (maybe it will be different when players won t have 2 buffed 4*)...

TxMoose

2 events in my experience isn't horribly bad, but I think with a 405 oml, I think I'm near the bottom of those who can reasonably expect progression or beyond. first event I climbed from 0 to 1150. one hop to 1250 and I was done. second event I floated around 500, pushed to 1150 and on 4 shields made 1500. everything towards the end included a champ 5*. I went through 10 all-ap boosts during hops (think that will be the norm now). this week I think im40/4thor could beat nearly anyone if you could get yellow down timely enough and survive a few rounds of match damage before you got enough blue for 4hor. I literally used all 3 of my boosted options, nearly equally, but antman a little less than the other 2 (x23 and 4thor). I can see where boosts will make huge differences in the performance of large chunks of the player-base. cyke or hb or 4hor boosts will be much easier than nearly any other weeks. ice permastun will be very useful when boosted. next week will be rough. quake is great but 5s don't have the devastating aoes like 4s do. and many don't have her yet.

tl/dr - I think everything got much harder for pure 4* rosters and lower. to operate near the top of progression, you have to be able to beat a 5* champ. that is a pretty **** system, but that is where they've set the bar.

dsds

The fight has always been that hard and was designed that way. Because of the micro transaction model, they have to keep you wanting more in order to profit. Champed 5s needed the cp more than anyone so having them make it to 1200 is intended. It isn't a disaster, pvp is now how they want it to be. To be honest, I was quite overjoyed that they left 10cp at the halfway mark. That was a very welcome bonus.

Don't compare to the time when there were cupcakes, because a lot of people during that time was not supposed to score that high. The developers said it wasn't meant to be used that way. Cupcakes were not condoned and thus why it was shut down. It's not valid to compare the results of something that wasn't meant to be used (cupcakes) as a comparison points to what it is now. The best way to think of this new change is that, you had an unfair advantage over others who didn't know or know how to use cupcakes, you didn't get punished for it. So be glad for that and that you can probably beat my team with the gains from your cupcake days anyway. But don't think of it as you were entitled to those rewards during the cupcake times.

Frustrated1

Ban 5 stars from this kind of PVP.

Create a 4/5 star only PVP with better rewards.

Done.

itstime1234

It is harder but I think this game is much closer to where it was 1 year ago when not everyone got to 1300 or you needed 2-3 shields to do it. With the cupcake explosion everyone was hitting 1300 in no time.

Orion

Hate to break it to you OP, but unless you're KD, you can't really float at 500 no matter what your roster is. I have a champed OML and SS and I can't float at 500 either. During this Cage event I kept bouncing between 400 and 500. When I made my push I was able to get to 1200 without shielding though.

Unfortunately for us, I think this is the model that the devs want. Different roster levels can only get so high without serious Line use and shield hopping. And spending, of course.

Dragon_Nexus

Orion wrote:

Hate to break it to you OP, but unless you're KD, you can't really float at 500 no matter what your roster is. I have a champed OML and SS and I can't float at 500 either. During this Cage event I kept bouncing between 400 and 500. When I made my push I was able to get to 1200 without shielding though.

Unfortunately for us, I think this is the model that the devs want. Different roster levels can only get so high without serious Line use and shield hopping. And spending, of course.

Curious as to which slice you use. I use slice 3 and I have not had many problems this week hitting 900. Though I suppose if my goal was 1200 I'd have had a much harder time...though that's never been my goal.

Next week will be telling though. Quake, Captain Falcon, Professor X and Drax. All the 4*s that are either kinda meh or woefully under covered in my roster. I'm just glad I did well in previous events so I don't have to get quite as many points for the final one this season to get progression.

NighteyesGrisu

simonsez wrote:

And do we REALLY still need 5 shards for PvP? Did we ever??

With the current system, unless you want to massively disadvantage some players based on their schedule/timezone, yes we do. Unless you mean that they could reduce (but not to one) the number of shards in which case I kinda agree.

Orion wrote:

Hate to break it to you OP, but unless you're KD, you can't really float at 500 no matter what your roster is. I have a champed OML and SS and I can't float at 500 either. During this Cage event I kept bouncing between 400 and 500. When I made my push I was able to get to 1200 without shielding though.

[quote="Orion"Unfortunately for us, I think this is the model that the devs want. Different roster levels can only get so high without serious Line use and shield hopping. And spending, of course.

It might be that it's not 'despite' your champed OML/SS but exactly because of them which makes you a target for the other 5* players. I only use champed 4*s in PVP and I floated for over a day in Cage PVP between 5 and 600p without getting hit. (Slice 4). I expected much worse, especially with 4thor being boosted which makes pretty much any opponent viable. My 'floating experience' varies a lot from PVP to PVP, though.

Polares

SnowcaTT wrote:

Have (one) champed 5* and have to pair it with 4*'s...it doesn't seem to bad.

However, talking to team-mates that pair two 360 5*'s or one 375 with one buffed 4*...they seem to agree with OP, progression basically became impossible, and they can't hop fast enough to get to the top anymore, whereas they used to be able to get to 1300 all the time.

I suggested in another post - make it easier for those type of teams by drastically reducing D losses. Make the experience a good one. Go in and win a 60 point match but lose three? That should even out, you shouldn't be losing more than 20 in matches until you are past 1200 and trying for placement over progression.

I agree with this statement. New PvP format is more fair, and the 575 progression and the reduction of the top progressions are great. What it is not great is the reduction in attack loses they advertised. The reduction is almost nothing. They should reduce loses by 1/3 (in my post I said max loss should be 50, max victory 75). This simple change would make things much better for everybody.


I am a 5 player (OML+PH champed) and I can get to 1200. In the first PvP it was easy in the second one I needed 3 shields, a lot of bad luck (in one hop I got to 1198, and when I was playing for the stupid 2 points I was attacked for 75! so I finished that hop at 1156, great :S). So I am still undecided about how much the loss of cupcakes has affected me.

As I said before, my floating point though is just 300-400. A lot of late climbers are 5 teams, and they see you always, so you can be hit anytime.

But It might be true that 4 rosters have a much harder time right now to get to 1200 (now they get the 10Cps at 575 and the 4 at 900), but they are used to 25CPs and the 4 so for them it is clearly a regression.

OneLastGambit

Polares wrote:

SnowcaTT wrote:

Have (one) champed 5* and have to pair it with 4*'s...it doesn't seem to bad.

However, talking to team-mates that pair two 360 5*'s or one 375 with one buffed 4*...they seem to agree with OP, progression basically became impossible, and they can't hop fast enough to get to the top anymore, whereas they used to be able to get to 1300 all the time.

I suggested in another post - make it easier for those type of teams by drastically reducing D losses. Make the experience a good one. Go in and win a 60 point match but lose three? That should even out, you shouldn't be losing more than 20 in matches until you are past 1200 and trying for placement over progression.

I agree with this statement. New PvP format is more fair, and the 575 progression and the reduction of the top progressions are great. What it is not great is the reduction in attack loses they advertised. The reduction is almost nothing. They should reduce loses by 1/3 (in my post I said max loss should be 50, max victory 75). This simple change would make things much better for everybody.


I am a 5 player (OML+PH champed) and I can get to 1200. In the first PvP it was easy in the second one I needed 3 shields, a lot of bad luck (in one hop I got to 1198, and when I was playing for the stupid 2 points I was attacked for 75! so I finished that hop at 1156, great :S). So I am still undecided about how much the loss of cupcakes has affected me.

As I said before, my floating point though is just 300-400. A lot of late climbers are 5 teams, and they see you always, so you can be hit anytime.

But It might be true that 4 rosters have a much harder time right now to get to 1200 (now they get the 10Cps at 575 and the 4 at 900), but they are used to 25CPs and the 4 so for them it is clearly a regression.

Yes but they are used to that due to a quirk of the system which allowed them to fly before they could crawl. Had they progressed normally (as intended) their experience might mirror that of people who didn't use cakes many of whom the lack of has not changed their game at all.

It was their insistence on flipping the game into kids mode which created this feeling of regression. Sadly the only way to fix this for them (beyond altering their perception and expectations) is to flip the game back into kids mode for them.

For those of us who played in normal mode these changes actually boost our progression so in effect we have been rewarded for playing the game as intended by the devs while those manipulating a weakness have been in effect punished for doing so

gmp72

If you look at the leaderboards in PVP nowadays, you will see a distinct separation at the top.
The 5* rosters dominate and the rest are a few hundred points below.
One could say that is a fair reflection, in that, a leaderboard should distinguish largely on the basis of player roster strength.

However, the huge problem is that there is no clear path to progression.

As long as RNG progression remains the norm as opposed to time/effort based progression, the 3-4* roster players will become increasingly frustrated and demoralized.

I am a Day 880 player and only champed a single 5* very recently.

Earning CP gives you a better chance at 5* but I not only need to pull a particular 5* but also a particular color cover.

My unchampioned Phoenix with 8 Purple covers can attest to that !

gmp72
DJU

MrCrowley

dsds wrote:

The fight has always been that hard and was designed that way. Because of the micro transaction model, they have to keep you wanting more in order to profit. Champed 5s needed the cp more than anyone so having them make it to 1200 is intended. It isn't a disaster, pvp is now how they want it to be. To be honest, I was quite overjoyed that they left 10cp at the halfway mark. That was a very welcome bonus.

Don't compare to the time when there were cupcakes, because a lot of people during that time was not supposed to score that high. The developers said it wasn't meant to be used that way. Cupcakes were not condoned and thus why it was shut down. It's not valid to compare the results of something that wasn't meant to be used (cupcakes) as a comparison points to what it is now. The best way to think of this new change is that, you had an unfair advantage over others who didn't know or know how to use cupcakes, you didn't get punished for it. So be glad for that and that you can probably beat my team with the gains from your cupcake days anyway. But don't think of it as you were entitled to those rewards during the cupcake times.

My experience from the cc era is that the game was enjoyable and by no means it was easy to get 1.3k without using multiple shields. I had just XFW and a bit later HB champed.

Now, I have a few champs more, and no way of breaking 1k.

The previous experience would have kept me playing and paying for shields happily. The new system makes me think about quitting.

How does that sound?
Which system is really better?

Dayv

I think the big problem here is that CL 8-10 are still forthcoming. Right now all the players that would be playing in any of clearance levels 7-10 are all bunched up in CL 7. Some of us are waiting for better rewards in higher levels, the rest are waiting for 5* rosters to get out of the 4* leaderboards.

simonsez

fanghoul wrote:

How well I can do in PvP ranks is significantly effected by when the event ends, what with shields having a limited lifetime. I imagine this is the case for other people too. Having only one shard would be pretty negative to people with different time zones or schedules.

That would have been a fantastic answer if I had said " we only need 1 shard". What I said was, "Do we need 5?"

Allow me to introduce you to my good friends 2,3 and 4.

fanghoul

simonsez wrote:

fanghoul wrote:

How well I can do in PvP ranks is significantly effected by when the event ends, what with shields having a limited lifetime. I imagine this is the case for other people too. Having only one shard would be pretty negative to people with different time zones or schedules.

That would have been a fantastic answer if I had said " we only need 1 shard". What I said was, "Do we need 5?"

Allow me to introduce you to my good friends 2,3 and 4.

An equally valid interpretation then is also 6 -> Infinity

smoq84

I don't really understand people's complains for the changes.

I currently have 6 championed 4*'s and no useful 5*'s (5 covers at best) and I don't see any difference in difficulty (I play slice 5 or sometimes slice 3).

Previously my goal was to finish in range of 800-1000 depending on rewards and powered up characters.
After a change I have finished both IF and Luke versus events in top20 (before I was top50 max) with little above 900 points using only 2 shields. And now I got 10cps at 575potints. Also I got Elite tokens, not only the 3* covers for placement. And our alliance was #102 (with less then 200points from t100) in IF event which is the best placement in our history.

To be honest last two events were the best experience I had in pvp


Ok, maybe this is because my championed 4hor was powered up. I will see how the next week will go, but till now I'm happy with the changes.

hopper1979

I have to say I am not seeing any of these issues. I have chosen L7 for both the events, I have no championed 5 and I have 5 maxed 4's and all the 3's which are championed, I have a range of 2's since I am farming them. I have seen no significant shift in matchups it is exactly the same to what I have been seeing for he last couple of years. I have not run into a maxed 5 yet even when I push into the top 50. The last event "Luke Cage" I finished 26 with ~650 points, if I had the time I have no doubt I could have gotten to at least 800 points and possibly even to 900 because the one thing I have noticed is the win values are higher, I was not getting hit with a bunch of 20-25 wins, with the occasional skip I was always above 35 and still saw a few 40+. The 10 cp was a great reward a 575 and now I feel like I have a chance of getting the 4star at 900 points as well. I have played this game since day 1 and I have only reached 1000 twice (there are other reasons for this but even when I really started trying to achieve 1000+ it happens very rarely because once you got over 800 watch out, and I am too suborn to shield jump.)

If I had to guess the match-ups are related to your roster, if you have not championed all the 3' and you have a poor distribution of character levels (top heavy) you are getting the match ups. I am working on something to help remove this speculation but I have to say I am enjoying the changes so far.

BigRussian

smoq84 wrote:

I don't really understand people's complains for the changes.

I currently have 6 championed 4*'s and no useful 5*'s (5 covers at best) and I don't see any difference in difficulty (I play slice 5 or sometimes slice 3).

Previously my goal was to finish in range of 800-1000 depending on rewards and powered up characters.
After a change I have finished both IF and Luke versus events in top20 (before I was top50 max) with little above 900 points using only 2 shields. And now I got 10cps at 575potints. Also I got Elite tokens, not only the 3* covers for placement. And our alliance was #102 (with less then 200points from t100) in IF event which is the best placement in our history.

To be honest last two events were the best experience I had in pvp


Ok, maybe this is because my championed 4hor was powered up. I will see how the next week will go, but till now I'm happy with the changes.

I want to echo this sentiment exactly. ^^^^^That.