Delirium is so difficult to use

wink

I have so much trouble getting delirium to work that I'm pretty much ignoring that portion of the card text whenever I see it. The trigger is so transient that it is impossible to plan around it. Examples:

1) Deathcap Cultivator: I'll watch the flicker of the deathtouch icon show up as I make a match, but then watch it disappear as a new green gem slides in to replace the one that was matched away.

2) Descend upon the Sinful: I have yet to summon any angels with this card. No matter how few white gems there are on screen when I make a match, enough new white gems come onto the board to replace the ones matched so that I always end up with more than 5 white gems after the match so the delirium effect never triggers.

I have even gotten to the point of using multiple cards that change gems to non-primary colors in an effort to make it useful, but even then it is still so unreliable as to be useless. Do other people have this problem? Is this just a useless mechanic? If it's not, how do you make it useful?

Pqmtg-

wink wrote:

I have so much trouble getting delirium to work that I'm pretty much ignoring that portion of the card text whenever I see it. The trigger is so transient that it is impossible to plan around it. Examples:

1) Deathcap Cultivator: I'll watch the flicker of the deathtouch icon show up as I make a match, but then watch it disappear as a new green gem slides in to replace the one that was matched away.

2) Descend upon the Sinful: I have yet to summon any angels with this card. No matter how few white gems there are on screen when I make a match, enough new white gems come onto the board to replace the ones matched so that I always end up with more than 5 white gems after the match so the delirium effect never triggers.

I have even gotten to the point of using multiple cards that change gems to non-primary colors in an effort to make it useful, but even then it is still so unreliable as to be useless. Do other people have this problem? Is this just a useless mechanic? If it's not, how do you make it useful?

The delirium effect seems to only trigger for me when I least want it. It's worse than useless IMHO.

Plastic

Considering spells can currently work based on whether or not we have supports, creatures or other spells in the graveyard, why couldn't PQ delirium be based on that the way paper is? Delirium cards could/should light up their border to show that delirium is active once certain cards are in the graveyard. Or make the current delirium effects based on missing gems last until end of turn if a player triggered it that turn.

Between the difficulties of using delirium and the devoid/colorless nonsense, it makes it feel like these mechanics are just quirks that aren't intended to impact any strategy. Is this what we're to expect each set?

Morphis

Plastic wrote:

Considering spells can currently work based on whether or not we have supports, creatures or other spells in the graveyard, why couldn't PQ delirium be based on that the way paper is? Delirium cards could/should light up their border to show that delirium is active once certain cards are in the graveyard. Or make the current delirium effects based on missing gems last until end of turn if a player triggered it that turn.

Between the difficulties of using delirium and the devoid/colorless nonsense, it makes it feel like these mechanics are just quirks that aren't intended to impact any strategy. Is this what we're to expect each set?

Keeping track of what you have in graveyard is already "not easy".
For cards that can only work if there is a something in the graveyard you have at least a confirmation in the fact that you can or cannot cast it.
For delirium you can cast the card anyways. So the result is not guaranteed.

Of course it is not guaranteed even in the current version cause even the simple 3 match you make can change it from "true" to "false", but on average if the condition is true now it will be after the match 3.

That said I find it mostly useless and also almost impossible to build decks for it.

The suggestion to have graphic confirmation on the card is neat and could also help with many other things already present in the game like number of supports in play.

That could be something to consider for their UI/UX developer that to be honest looks quite prolific recently(animations in last patch and now improved tooltip for keywords).

Avacyn

I often get the angels out when I use descend upon the sinful on Nahiri. her 2nd skill can help eliminate a few white gems. I do feel its a very unpredictable mechanic. since there is no telling if the next stack of gems that replaces the broken ones well have white in them.

if they made triggering delirium on PQ the same way in paper it would be playable. say, if you have a creature, a spell and a support in your graveyard you well trigger delirium. (it how paper magic does it. 4 card types in graveyard to trigger it)

tm00

In my experience when mastering cards it works better in decks that can't turn gems to their color.

HunMike

While i agree with the title, the given example i find a little odd. 12 mana for a mass removal is good, a decent mythic nonetheless. Its delirium effect is just the icing on the cake. I have it as a backup if the ai grew on me and it works just fine even without the angels.

To trigger the delirium effect is a pain in the @ss indeed but most cards with it have balanced casting cost so imo they dosn't need reconfiguration. Madness cards for example have much higher cost in general for what they can do and i saw no complaints so far. I think because madness can also be used as a defensive feat. Delirium just needs a few more cards to work efficiently. Until then just use the ai behavior on your favor and make it do the matches for you.

I don't have Nahiri/Ajani yet, but if i would, i'd definitely put crumble to dust in. That should settle the matter for good. Of course there will be a few cards which weren't worth to cast on the spot, but that's the whole point with delirium. Not every deck should be about speed.

Foznertep

But especially green Delirium cards are almost absurd. Green decks rely on putting MORE green gems on the board. So for Delirium to trigger you'd have to get such a bad board that you probably will be struggling to get the win anyway and the Delirium effect is then unlikely to turn the tide.

Konman

I tried using supports that create the secondary colors for my PW. Say, red/white gems for a Nissa deck. Only limited success.

alextfish

It's particularly frustrating with cards like Inexorable Blob that do nothing interesting unless you hit the delirium condition. It's exceptionally hard to arrange, especially for green.

It's also rather annoying with things like Paranoid Parish-Blade and Moorlands Drifter because it SLOWS DOWN GAMEPLAY. When I match some white gems, the game pauses to animate them gaining the first strike and flying icons. Then new gems drop and they lose them again. Sometimes in a cascade the game will spend quite a long time just adding and removing those icons for no point at all.

wink

OK. Well, it is nice to see that I'm not the only one.

HunMike wrote:

While i agree with the title, the given example i find a little odd. 12 mana for a mass removal is good, a decent mythic nonetheless. Its delirium effect is just the icing on the cake. I have it as a backup if the ai grew on me and it works just fine even without the angels.

I'm not complaining about the casting cost, I'm just saying that the delirium portion just might as well not be on the card, and it warps the timing of when I play it in hopes of triggering the angels. I've even tried putting multiple gem-changing cards that change to non-white colors in the same deck, for the sole purpose of seeing if I could get it to trigger, and still failed.

And as others have pointed out, putting delirium on green cards just doesn't make any sense at all!

MageKnight

best way I could get Delirium to trigger is with an Ingest deck with Black or Blue or sometimes Red

but yeah Delirium on green is very difficult to trigger

Netatron

Only way I've been able to use it reliably is with Ulamog, and that's only against enemies of your own color, and only a good idea on planeswalkers like Sarkhan and Garruk that don't have rely on their own colors for mana. I think it should probably be changed to 6 gems.

Mainloop25

I agree, delirium should trigger on 6 gems of a color

tm00

Looking at all green creatures, even without delirium soul swallower has the second best p/t to cost after herald of the pantheon, inesorable blob triggers after you make your matches and deathcap cultivator has a mostly irrelevant delirium bonus
The commons and uncommons seem a little overcosted however, might beyond reason is 3 more than murderer axe and obsessive skinner take an awful lot of effort to become similar to the big uncommon cat from bfz( 8 mana 4/4 with a minor bonus)

Mordgraf scavenger does at least become an uncommon body at common for if delirious, I guess.

Buret0

The problem is the constantly changing board.

Delirium would work much better if the condition was "if at any time during the turn, condition for delirium is met, activate delirium bonus (cannot activate multiple times in a single turn".

The problem is that most of the time you don't have any control over the board at the time the condition is to be checked. For those abilities like give the spirit flying or the paranoid parish blade first strike, if the condition arose once, it should remain active until the end of the turn, not for as long as the condition exists. The same would go for the spells. If you start the turn in delirium condition, an icon on the card could light up. If, by the time you go to cast the spell after moving some tiles, the condition is no longer met, the icon should remain illuminated for the casting of the spell.

I don't know if the coding would be more difficult, but at least each card wouldn't constantly be having to check the board state, once the board state existed at some point during the turn, the card would no longer need to keep checking the board state.

Cragger

For spells with Delirium and a yes/no box, it's super frustrating to not be able to see the board to count gems. Granted, it's worse for autocast spells when you thought you had it but don't.

Netatron

Buret0 wrote:

The problem is the constantly changing board.

Delirium would work much better if the condition was "if at any time during the turn, condition for delirium is met, activate delirium bonus (cannot activate multiple times in a single turn".

The problem is that most of the time you don't have any control over the board at the time the condition is to be checked. For those abilities like give the spirit flying or the paranoid parish blade first strike, if the condition arose once, it should remain active until the end of the turn, not for as long as the condition exists. The same would go for the spells. If you start the turn in delirium condition, an icon on the card could light up. If, by the time you go to cast the spell after moving some tiles, the condition is no longer met, the icon should remain illuminated for the casting of the spell.

I don't know if the coding would be more difficult, but at least each card wouldn't constantly be having to check the board state, once the board state existed at some point during the turn, the card would no longer need to keep checking the board state.

They could definitely make Parish Blade an until end of turn effect.

MTG_Mage

Delirium triggers when there are 5 or less of that color gems on the board. There are lots of effects that trigger when there are 8 or more, so I suggest that Delirium gets buffed to trigger when there are 7 or less.