Kiora refunds - why last topic disappeared?

Yawgmoth
Yawgmoth Posts: 67 Match Maker
edited September 2016 in MtGPQ General Discussion
The incoming nerfs are making her ****. It's obvious most players wouldn't spend so much on her if not for her power level. 900 manacrystal.png +160K manarune.png to lvlup is a huge lot. I'm not even talking real money here...

Be fair to your players, do at least what Blizzard does with Hearthstone - in case of nerfs the nerfed cards can be redeemed for full dust value. Wouldn't be easy to do in MTGPQ for cards (or even make sense in some cases), but planeswalkers do have fixed manacrystal.png costs and known manarune.png amounts spent on them that could be fully refunded if players decided to dump a planeswalker after a nerf. Is there any downside to implementing this?

EDIT: This is not about real money refunds, just ingame currencies.

Comments

  • jackvett
    jackvett Posts: 141 Tile Toppler
    Yawgmoth wrote:
    Is there any downside to implementing this?

    Businesses don't sit on the cash that you give to them when they render you goods/services. They invest it, use it to cover their own expenses, and pay out salaries. Basically none of it is kept liquid.

    I could see them potentially refunding the crystals and runes, or a percentage thereof, for players who want to do a one-time refund of the PW, especially given the community backlash today.

    But I think it's unrealistic to expect the publishers to cough up any money for product that customers have functionally used and enjoyed for months now (which is what some people are calling for).
  • Fiddler
    Fiddler Posts: 251 Mover and Shaker
    Refunds are generally referring to cash. If its fairy dust you want, then that is regarded as compensation.

    Cash refunds are hard, that is why when I was double charged for the Sahiri pack due to a server error, I accepted the equivalent in mana as compensation.

    It would be nice if every player that had invested cash or mana into the original Kiora was compensated.
  • Tilikum
    Tilikum Posts: 159
    According to the patch notes thread, they're going to just change the cost of the first ability. Dude, Fiddler, I think you just single-handedly reversed Kiora's nerf by telling D3 you're not spending anymore money. You must be putting their kids through college. Pretty epic.
  • Fiddler
    Fiddler Posts: 251 Mover and Shaker
    Believe me I wish I had that kind of influence. But it is still unsettling that cards offered up for cash can be reduced in playability.
    If I had spent $10, it would not sting. But I spent the equivalent of a full priced game on a single card ($70).
    It has been noted that the people that price the offers are different than the group that designs, codes, and moderates these forums.

    Hopefully these proposed changes to Kiora reflect in future offers. I note that the new Jace PW looks quite strong and has a very easy price point. Maybe its happening already.
  • Yawgmoth
    Yawgmoth Posts: 67 Match Maker
    This is what caused the initial outrage.
    patch notes just a couple hours ago wrote:
    Kiora, Master of the Depths

    Her first ability, Crashing Waves, now costs 9 Loyalty (up from 6).

    Her second ability, Swirling Waters, now gives 1/2/3/4 mana to the fetched creature (down from 3/6/12/16).

    Her third ability, From the Depths, now costs 30 (up from 24).

    Now updated to nerf just the first ability.
    Which is in fact a reasonable change which was needed for the good of general balance.
    But this brings a topic for another discussion - why was she released blatantly OP and for double the price of other 2-color planeswalkers in the first place?
  • Netatron
    Netatron Posts: 147
    Yawgmoth wrote:
    This is what caused the initial outrage.
    patch notes just a couple hours ago wrote:
    Kiora, Master of the Depths

    Her first ability, Crashing Waves, now costs 9 Loyalty (up from 6).

    Her second ability, Swirling Waters, now gives 1/2/3/4 mana to the fetched creature (down from 3/6/12/16).

    Her third ability, From the Depths, now costs 30 (up from 24).

    Now updated to nerf just the first ability.
    Which is in fact a reasonable change which was needed for the good of general balance.
    But this brings a topic for another discussion - why was she released blatantly OP and for double the price of other 2-color planeswalkers in the first place?

    Kiora wasn't blatantly OP, it's her cards that are. Her first ability at a low cost is a strong ability, just like Ajani's was before the nerf, just like Koth's, just like Nahiri's, just like Liliana's even. Kiora's mana gains have always been the lowest outside of the origins 5 and Ob Nixilis. Some planeswalkers being weak doesn't mean you need to nerf the strong ones.
  • Prismatism
    Prismatism Posts: 2
    To be honest she went from overnerfed to undernerfed, the second ability should scale either by 2 or 3 per level, not 4 and third ability does not need reach and trample, one or the other. Even if the second ability was changed to one it's not like it'd be a travesty, Kiora has access to the biggest mana ramp cards in the game, she does not need that much help playing creatures, or any card for that matter.
  • Pqmtg-
    Pqmtg- Posts: 282
    Prismatism wrote:
    To be honest she went from overnerfed to undernerfed, the second ability should scale either by 2 or 3 per level, not 4 and third ability does not need reach and trample, one or the other. Even if the second ability was changed to one it's not like it'd be a travesty, Kiora has access to the biggest mana ramp cards in the game, she does not need that much help playing creatures, or any card for that matter.


    I think this is the first time I've seen anyone complain about her second skill.
  • Netatron
    Netatron Posts: 147
    Prismatism wrote:
    To be honest she went from overnerfed to undernerfed, the second ability should scale either by 2 or 3 per level, not 4 and third ability does not need reach and trample, one or the other. Even if the second ability was changed to one it's not like it'd be a travesty, Kiora has access to the biggest mana ramp cards in the game, she does not need that much help playing creatures, or any card for that matter.

    If the existence of really strong ramp like Nissa's Renewal makes her a problem, maybe it doesn't make sense to balance Kiora's abilities around a broken card? There will be more multicolor green planeswalkers in the future, should they all have **** abilities?
  • Prismatism
    Prismatism Posts: 2
    I wouldn't call overtuned strong, but maybe that's just me. If you think that's fine then all fetch and play abilities should have that baseline effectiveness. Look at Jace's spell fetch, it's pretty mediocre.
  • majincob
    majincob Posts: 732 Critical Contributor
    Prismatism wrote:
    I wouldn't call overtuned strong, but maybe that's just me. If you think that's fine then all fetch and play abilities should have that baseline effectiveness. Look at Jace's spell fetch, it's pretty mediocre.

    It used to make the spell free. They should un-nerf Jace as his original version would be fine in the current power landscape (see Mirrorpool). Of course they may not want to take the focus away from their shiny new Jace.
  • Buret0
    Buret0 Posts: 1,591
    Netatron wrote:
    If the existence of really strong ramp like Nissa's Renewal makes her a problem, maybe it doesn't make sense to balance Kiora's abilities around a broken card? There will be more multicolor green planeswalkers in the future, should they all have **** abilities?

    Nissa's Renewal will be nerfed as soon as I get it. No need to nerf a card I don't have yet.

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