the game demi/d3 want

Quebbster

Alsmir wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

Is it bad news if you never indulged in cupcaking to begin with?

Simply put, tinykitty yes it's bad news. What you people with celiac disease continually refuse to hear is that even if you never hit a cupcake, you're benefiting because you're consistently hitting targets worth more points than they otherwise would be worth without ccs.

That's cute, but I'd pick more difficult, harsh PvP where everyone is playing fair over the mess full of cheaters, that we have right now.

Is it really so surprising, that some people prefer fair play? **** is wrong with this community?

"Cheaters" and "fair play" are strong Words IMO. I partake in the cupcake Culture but I don't use out of game coordination - when I find a cupcake I'll happily take the Points for it, and when I am done with my climb I try to put out a cupcake team myself. Personally I gain jack squat from my cupcake, but I try to do it anyway because I like helping those below me get more Points.
The main argument I see against cupcakes is that inflated scores make it more difficult to get placement rewards. This is true. Inflated scores does make it easier to reach progression rewards though, so it's really a matter of placement vs progression rewards. The thing is though that placement rewards are by nature limited - only one person in each bracket gets the first Place reward, while there is no limit to how many players can get all the progression rewards. Even if the removal of cupcakes drives down the top scores a bit the truly insane front runners aren't likely to change their playing habits - they are still willing to start early and spend lots of HP on Shields to stay well in front of you. I don't Think this change will make it easier to get placement rewards, it will just make progression rewards harder to reach for everyone.
That's obviously the goal of the devs though. The current Environment makes it far too easy to reach the various progression rewards.

Polares

Quebbster wrote:

The main argument I see against cupcakes is that inflated scores make it more difficult to get placement rewards. This is true. Inflated scores does make it easier to reach progression rewards though, so it's really a matter of placement vs progression rewards. The thing is though that placement rewards are by nature limited - only one person in each bracket gets the first Place reward, while there is no limit to how many players can get all the progression rewards. Even if the removal of cupcakes drives down the top scores a bit the truly insane front runners aren't likely to change their playing habits - they are still willing to start early and spend lots of HP on Shields to stay well in front of you. I don't Think this change will make it easier to get placement rewards, it will just make progression rewards harder to reach for everyone.
That's obviously the goal of the devs though. The current Environment makes it far too easy to reach the various progression rewards.

The problem, like almost always, is that some people abused this... let's call it "clever use of the mechanics of the game against it" . When you see teams with 3s getting to 1500 or more in PvP, just by using cupcakes, without fighting anything else than cupcakes in their climb, you realise this is not what Devs had in mind and that the system has been exploited. And this was happening, we all know it, a lot of people just frighted cupcakes in their shield hops and got far higher scores than what they should have by just playing normally.

I am not against the use of cupcakes, specially if you use them as you did (or I did, when I was able to see them ), eat one every once in a while so a hop is slightly faster, or where you can do 3 battles instead of 2, but when people just fights cupcakes, then there is a problem (people with 3s rosters getting a lot of 5s before they even have their 4s champed, the progression is clearly broken).

The only problem I see is that this gets 'fixed' very late, too late. A lot of people have benefited greatly from this (we all have benefited from this, but some more than others), and there is also the problem that this people now expects to get to 1300 in every PvP, and some of those are not going to be able to get there now, and they will get very upset, because they are used to it, this is a big change for them. If this would have been fixed when it started, probably nobody would be complaining, but now this is a big deal for a lot of people (I reserve my judgement until we see the reduction in loses when we are attacked to say if this will affect everyone or not, I think that as long LINE exists scores will continue to be quite high, but we will see).

Quebbster

Polares wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

The main argument I see against cupcakes is that inflated scores make it more difficult to get placement rewards. This is true. Inflated scores does make it easier to reach progression rewards though, so it's really a matter of placement vs progression rewards. The thing is though that placement rewards are by nature limited - only one person in each bracket gets the first Place reward, while there is no limit to how many players can get all the progression rewards. Even if the removal of cupcakes drives down the top scores a bit the truly insane front runners aren't likely to change their playing habits - they are still willing to start early and spend lots of HP on Shields to stay well in front of you. I don't Think this change will make it easier to get placement rewards, it will just make progression rewards harder to reach for everyone.
That's obviously the goal of the devs though. The current Environment makes it far too easy to reach the various progression rewards.

The problem, like almost always, is that some people abused this... let's call it "clever use of the mechanics of the game against it" . When you see teams with 3s getting to 1500 or more in PvP, just by using cupcakes, without fighting anything else than cupcakes in their climb, you realise this is not what Devs had in mind and that the system has been exploited. And this was happening, we all know it, a lot of people just frighted cupcakes in their shield hops and got far higher scores than what they should have by just playing normally.

I am not against the use of cupcakes, specially if you use them as you did (or I did, when I was able to see them ), eat one every once in a while so a hop is slightly faster, or where you can do 3 battles instead of 2, but when people just fights cupcakes, then there is a problem (people with 3s rosters getting a lot of 5s before they even have their 4s champed, the progression is clearly broken).

The only problem I see is that this gets 'fixed' very late, too late. A lot of people have benefited greatly from this (we all have benefited from this, but some more than others), and there is also the problem that this people now expects to get to 1300 in every PvP, and some of those are not going to be able to get there now, and they will get very upset, because they are used to it, this is a big change for them. If this would have been fixed when it started, probably nobody would be complaining, but now this is a big deal for a lot of people (I reserve my judgement until we see the reduction in loses when we are attacked to say if this will affect everyone or not, I think that as long LINE exists scores will continue to be quite high, but we will see).

Well said. I'm not particularly worried personally as I have been able to hit 1300 Before my first shield lately, with no time to search out cupcakes, but those with less advanced rosters may find the transition Jarring.

Legasher

Quebbster wrote:

"Cheaters" and "fair play" are strong Words IMO...

The main argument I see against cupcakes is that inflated scores make it more difficult to get placement rewards.

My personal argument against cupcakes is here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Match_fixing

And my personal counter to those who say "Those who disagree with cupcakes never passed one up" is: Would you blame the Reds for winning the 1919 World Series?
I should pay to skip you to pass up an advantage that you're giving your teammates by throwing the match? Your teammates are not going to skip you, so no one else has the option to either because the competitive disadvantage of not taking the cupcake is more than simply the difference between the points someone would get from you vs. another player, it's that difference times two plus a whole 75 points more because one person can eat two cupcakes in the time it takes another to win one fair match.

Teammate:
Gets 75 points for a coordinated CC, finishes in 2 minutes, hits a second coordinated CC, shields. 150pts, 4 mins.
Not Teammate:
Skips cupcake (-10 iso) queues a 50 pt match, takes four minutes, shields. System awards 38 pts instead of 50, 4 minutes.

Drastic difference.

And don't even get me started on the fact that breaking the "rules" of etiquette built around protecting the cheaters by those benefiting from it can result in being targeted and bullied out of even being able to play the game normally.

NovaRk

I'm slightly confused as to why I'm constantly being called a "cheater"? I love battlechats, I love ccs, and I'm extremely grateful for the bakers. I HAVE A 3* ROSTER... Well kinda, I'm about 2/3s of the way through champing them. Oh and guess what?! I still have barely any 5*s because even hitting 1300 every pvp and pulling classic tokens, I still only get 1 5* every 3 months.
Now.. To the people saying I just eat ccs and that's all that happens for me to get to 1300+,guess what?! You're wrong. I have to start at the beginning of every pvp, front run.. And then be stuck with 5 point matches of 4* and 5* teams that I'm not stupid enough to attempt to hit. Yes my saving grace to get passed 800 are the ccs. But I'm constantly shielding, hopping, shielding, hopping, shielding, which.. In case you didn't know costs money. In between those shields, I ALWAYS GET HIT! And I always have 2 or 3 full screens of bounces after I can finally shield.
Oh yeah so..... CHEATING:
act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.
If every has the ability to find/join/make a battlechat and produce cupcakes, where exactly is the unfairness?
Sounds more to me like you mad bro

UncleSmed

NovaRk wrote:

I'm slightly confused as to why I'm constantly being called a "cheater"? I love battlechats, I love ccs, and I'm extremely grateful for the bakers. I HAVE A 3* ROSTER... Well kinda, I'm about 2/3s of the way through champing them. Oh and guess what?! I still have barely any 5*s because even hitting 1300 every pvp and pulling classic tokens, I still only get 1 5* every 3 months.
Now.. To the people saying I just eat ccs and that's all that happens for me to get to 1300+,guess what?! You're wrong. I have to start at the beginning of every pvp, front run.. And then be stuck with 5 point matches of 4* and 5* teams that I'm not stupid enough to attempt to hit. Yes my saving grace to get passed 800 are the ccs. But I'm constantly shielding, hopping, shielding, hopping, shielding, which.. In case you didn't know costs money. In between those shields, I ALWAYS GET HIT! And I always have 2 or 3 full screens of bounces after I can finally shield.
Oh yeah so..... CHEATING:
act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.
If every has the ability to find/join/make a battlechat and produce cupcakes, where exactly is the unfairness?
Sounds more to me like you mad bro

Except for one thing...
the people who own the game say you're abusing the spirit of the game.
And they'd like you to stop.

Vhailorx

UncleSmed wrote:

NovaRk wrote:

I'm slightly confused as to why I'm constantly being called a "cheater"? I love battlechats, I love ccs, and I'm extremely grateful for the bakers. I HAVE A 3* ROSTER... Well kinda, I'm about 2/3s of the way through champing them. Oh and guess what?! I still have barely any 5*s because even hitting 1300 every pvp and pulling classic tokens, I still only get 1 5* every 3 months.
Now.. To the people saying I just eat ccs and that's all that happens for me to get to 1300+,guess what?! You're wrong. I have to start at the beginning of every pvp, front run.. And then be stuck with 5 point matches of 4* and 5* teams that I'm not stupid enough to attempt to hit. Yes my saving grace to get passed 800 are the ccs. But I'm constantly shielding, hopping, shielding, hopping, shielding, which.. In case you didn't know costs money. In between those shields, I ALWAYS GET HIT! And I always have 2 or 3 full screens of bounces after I can finally shield.
Oh yeah so..... CHEATING:
act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.
If every has the ability to find/join/make a battlechat and produce cupcakes, where exactly is the unfairness?
Sounds more to me like you mad bro

Except for one thing...
the people who own the game say you're abusing the spirit of the game.
And they'd like you to stop.

The people who own the game also think shield cooldowns are a good idea. And they like moonstone. And few, if any of them participate in elder game play (which is perfectly normal, who wants to have a time consuming hobby that is also literally your job?).

Can demi/d3 do more or less whatever they want to change the gameplay? Yes (within the boundaries of fair business practices).

Does that mean that they should do those things? Or that they are infallible when it comes to interpreting their own creation? I don't think so.

Fightmastermpq

Polares wrote:

When you see teams with 3s getting to 1500 or more in PvP, just by using cupcakes, without fighting anything else than cupcakes in their climb, you realise this is not what Devs had in mind and that the system has been exploited. And this was happening, we all know it, a lot of people just frighted cupcakes in their shield hops and got far higher scores than what they should have by just playing normally.

I think it is important that people realize that this can't happen. To queue a cupcake as a 3->4 transitioner or better you need to first climb above 800 on your own merits.