Instead of Nerfing 5*s - Make Latest Legends Cheaper

FaustianDeal

Lots of people are running OML/Phoenix these days, and I think people assume this is because they are overpowered. Not really - its just because they have been around longer. People are incentivized to pull classic legends because they are cheaper than latest legends. This just widens the lead that OML/Phoenix/Surfer have on the new characters. Is it any wonder people run them? They are better *covered* not *better*. When we first had legendary tokens OML was loaded in with a 5% drop rate in classics. When phoenix was added, latest legends were introduced... during that window OML was a 5% drop rate in *BOTH* token pools. This is why so many people have him and run him.

Here's an alternative approach to get people to run different 5*s. Make Latest Legends cost 15 CP. Here's the thinking:
In today's world - if I earn 300 CP this season I'm going to use it as 15 classic pulls. This doesn't increase the chances of me getting new 5*s... in fact it probably only widens the gap that OML/Phx/SS have over newer 5*. The only way I get a Bolt, Widow, or Hulk is if I get a legendary token - that's the only time most people pull a latest.

If latest legends instead cost the same, now I might use this season's 300 CP as 15x latest pulls. I'm more likely to get bolt, widow, hulk covers - meanwhile my OML/Phx/SS might stay right where they are. (Leading to a day where I might get another hero covered well enough to use instead of one that already has 13+ covers.)

If you went even farther, and flipped it so latest legends are cheaper? (Like 15 CP, so now my next season's 300 CP becomes 20x latest pulls?) Now you have a situation where people are getting new characters faster, and then the trade off forces us to spend more CP for the chance to gain additional champ levels on existing characters. This seems like it might do a better job of creating the more level playing field you are aiming for. If you flip the price tho; please figure out a way for a 'token' to be used in either pool and not just as a latest.

jobob

Fantastic point, and it is exacerbated by the ramp-up curve on 5* power, and the champion system.

I like that 5* get much stronger with additional levels. They are so rare, a single cover needs to mean something.

The problem is that, even when you fully cover a new 5*, a level 450 is significantly weaker than a level 465. And with the CL pack getting diluted more and more... your current highest level character is likely to stay your highest level character for quite some time. Unless you are really zeroing in on that one character while they are in a feature pack or the LL pack.


I would offer an alternative... don't make the packs cheaper, but double the odds of the LL pack. So instead of a 15% chance for a 5*, make it a 30% chance. Or just set everybody's draw rate at 3% and don't cut the odds (that would be 21% now, but raises to 24% with the next addition, 27% and so on).

mr_X

I agree. Oml and phoenix are just more prevalent due to the longer timespan within the game and some strategic drawing by players like myself who wanted a finished character rather than a lot more less covered and ultimately as a team in pvp at the time less useful.

Not that I am fortunate to be in a position to directly know but I have heard from talking from those that are there are a number of 5*s way stronger than these two older stalwarts.

Kinda worrying to feel like you have put all your eggs in a basket that is away to get tipped over.

simonsez

What about people who still haven't maxed OML/PHX? (thanks RNG, and thanks devs for cramming 4 or 5 other 5*s into the classic pool)

All this does is further widen the gap between the I-got-mine and the I-got-tinykitty

dr tinykittylove

I would buy latest lts all day if they were the same cost even, because the prospect of getting a19th OML cover is nowhere near as exciting as the hope of getting a first Black Widow cover.

mohio

The silly thing about lack of 5* diversity is that even if OML and PHX get "rebalanced" or somehow changed so they don't work the same as they do currently, they will STILL be the most used 5* because those of us that have them at a high level are essentially forced to use them in nearly every single battle. Maybe they will make SS more of a viable option, so we can start seeing more of him since many that have OML and/or PHX also have a well-covered SS. But chances are that's basically where it ends. You can't improve diversity just by making my only usable 5* weaker, you have to also make it possible for me to have other characters to use instead. And it's not like I can just go back to using 4* since my scaling and MMR have made that nearly impossible.

DFiPL

One thing I'm noticing with respect to 5*'s is that the sentiment from some almost seems to be "yeah I know the devs said these were supposed to take a while to cover but since the megawhales already done whaled up maxchamps, eff it; they should make them more widely available to EVERYBODY because of that."

I mean, that may not be how it's explicitly stated but that's how it comes across.

jobob

mr_X wrote:

Kinda worrying to feel like you have put all your eggs in a basket that is away to get tipped over.

Yep... though, it's not like most players had a choice about the basket. Unless you bought an OML cover for 720 CP, it was just randomness.

Obviously I'm anti-OML nerf... but not because I'm afraid to lose him. I know it's going to hurt the people who are into the 5* MMR, but without a full 5* roster. If OML or Phoenix takes a hit in power... I've got the other 5*'s champed, so no big deal to me. In fact, I get stronger by default because so many other players rosters are weakened much more than mine. I think a nerf to the workhorse of the early 5* game only puts further separation between the whales and the rest of the player base.

Crowl

The change they need to make should be to have multiple generations/season/whatever of legendary tokens and only have a max of 3 per token with the newest release having an overlap with the previous token as needed.

mpqr7

Seeing as how it took over a year to get my OML to lv 420, winning one cover every few months after hitting 1300+ every single pvp and all the other droplets of cp that I won with intense grinding, it's a major tk-you to me and everyone who's worked harder than ever to get him to a usuable condition (and mind you every time I level him up further, it actually becomes MORE difficult to hit 1300, since I'm placed against people with championed 5*s now).

If you're going to take away my lv 420, then instead of making me grind like crazy for another year, let me immediately trade him in for the lv 420 5* of my choice. Let me decide which 5* I'd like to use.

I'm less worried about nerfs to 4*s and 3*s, because I have a lot of 4*s championed and all 3*s championed, so if you nerf a few of them, then I have other choices. But if you nerf OML, then I don't have any other choices, you are basically just setting my progress majorly back. And I'll still keep using him, because even when nerfed, he'll be the only one I have that's reasonably covered.

Punisher5784

All this talk about nerfing OML and PHX due to most players having them covered because they are the oldest 5* sounds awfully similar to the nerf of XFW and 4hor. Sounds like the devs did not learn from their mistake when they implemented the 5* tier which is a shame. If only the devs listened to the players when the 5*'s were first released but we were ignored. It's going to be interesting to see these upcoming balance changes and if any 5*'s are included

Orangecrush

Punisher5784 wrote:

All this talk about nerfing OML and PHX due to most players having them covered because they are the oldest 5* sounds awfully similar to the nerf of XFW and 4hor. Sounds like the devs did not learn from their mistake when they implemented the 5* tier which is a shame. If only the devs listened to the players when the 5*'s were first released but we were ignored. It's going to be interesting to see these upcoming balance changes and if any 5*'s are included

If they are being changed, no one knows what the changes look like. It's all speculation. It seems silly to say the devs didn't learn anything when they haven't actually done anything yet.

jobob

Punisher5784 wrote:

All this talk about nerfing OML and PHX due to most players having them covered because they are the oldest 5* sounds awfully similar to the nerf of XFW and 4hor. Sounds like the devs did not learn from their mistake when they implemented the 5* tier which is a shame. If only the devs listened to the players when the 5*'s were first released but we were ignored. It's going to be interesting to see these upcoming balance changes and if any 5*'s are included

Totally different. XFW was one of the oldest but GT was relatively new. And OML eventually becomes second-tier as you get more 5*, but GT/XFW might still be the best combo in the game if it were still around.

Punisher5784

Orangecrush wrote:

Punisher5784 wrote:

All this talk about nerfing OML and PHX due to most players having them covered because they are the oldest 5* sounds awfully similar to the nerf of XFW and 4hor. Sounds like the devs did not learn from their mistake when they implemented the 5* tier which is a shame. If only the devs listened to the players when the 5*'s were first released but we were ignored. It's going to be interesting to see these upcoming balance changes and if any 5*'s are included

If they are being changed, no one knows what the changes look like. It's all speculation. It seems silly to say the devs didn't learn anything when they haven't actually done anything yet.

I also stated in the same post "It's going to be interesting to see these upcoming balance changes and if any 5*'s are included". If 5*'s are included it will be a shame as acquiring them is more time consuming and costly to the many players who have them.

Regardless, this is just my opinion. It does not affect me personally because I do not own any covered 5*'s outside of 1 cover each, but if they nerf some 4*'s such as Jean Grey, that's a different story!

I really hope they don't (over)nerf anyone. I have liked their new approach where a character is too powerful so they release a counter character such as Jean Grey was released to counter Professor X, Quake counter RH, etc.

Orangecrush

Punisher5784 wrote:

Orangecrush wrote:

Punisher5784 wrote:

All this talk about nerfing OML and PHX due to most players having them covered because they are the oldest 5* sounds awfully similar to the nerf of XFW and 4hor. Sounds like the devs did not learn from their mistake when they implemented the 5* tier which is a shame. If only the devs listened to the players when the 5*'s were first released but we were ignored. It's going to be interesting to see these upcoming balance changes and if any 5*'s are included

If they are being changed, no one knows what the changes look like. It's all speculation. It seems silly to say the devs didn't learn anything when they haven't actually done anything yet.

I also stated in the same post "It's going to be interesting to see these upcoming balance changes and if any 5*'s are included". If 5*'s are included it will be a shame as acquiring them is more time consuming and costly to the many players who have them.

Regardless, this is just my opinion. It does not affect me personally because I do not own any covered 5*'s outside of 1 cover each, but if they nerf some 4*'s such as Jean Grey, that's a different story!

I really hope they don't (over)nerf anyone. I have liked their new approach where a character is too powerful so they release a counter character such as Jean Grey was released to counter Professor X, Quake counter RH, etc.

Sorry. I didn't mean to imply you said anything you didn't. I'm actually very excited to see what changes they make. Everyone remembers xfw and Thor, but the most recent character changes they made were mostly all very good.

Crowl

FaustianDeal wrote:

If you went even farther, and flipped it so latest legends are cheaper? (Like 15 CP, so now my next season's 300 CP becomes 20x latest pulls?) Now you have a situation where people are getting new characters faster, and then the trade off forces us to spend more CP for the chance to gain additional champ levels on existing characters. This seems like it might do a better job of creating the more level playing field you are aiming for. If you flip the price tho; please figure out a way for a 'token' to be used in either pool and not just as a latest.

Given how unlucky some people can be with 5*'s and RNG, a change like that would be fairly terrible and just be another case of the rich (and/or lucky) getting richer while everyone else struggles to get usable character and would be forced to spend more to get the older characters since it would still make more sense to try and cover the older chars rather than hoping to get enough of a new one before it dropped out of the latest pack.

puppychow

Punisher5784 wrote:

All this talk about nerfing OML and PHX due to most players having them covered because they are the oldest 5* sounds awfully similar to the nerf of XFW and 4hor. Sounds like the devs did not learn from their mistake when they implemented the 5* tier which is a shame. If only the devs listened to the players when the 5*'s were first released but we were ignored. It's going to be interesting to see these upcoming balance changes and if any 5*'s are included

The nerf of Thorevine resulted in a large number of veteran players quitting. I suspect a major nerf of OML could cause many ppl to delete the app too.

puppychow

aesthetocyst wrote:

Never mind that next year the same blu•ray will be in the $7.98 bargain bin. Those flicks are so last year!

If only this were true. I still haven't seen Antman, Winter Soldier, Guardians of Galaxy, and they're not in the $7.98 bargain bin.

Orangecrush

puppychow wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

Never mind that next year the same blu•ray will be in the $7.98 bargain bin. Those flicks are so last year!

If only this were true. I still haven't seen Antman, Winter Soldier, Guardians of Galaxy, and they're not in the $7.98 bargain bin.

Disney movies are a little different

an1979

IMHO: OML will be nerfed because it is "leaking" revenue .

Great character with self healing = no sales of Heath Packs.

All other buffs/nerf will be smoke and mirrors.

veny

Nope.
Look, the only reason why we keep 3*s/4*s and champion them is to get LTs and CPs to get 5*s.
If 5*s were more common, guess what? People would mostly ignore weak covers and build 5*s only. Even now 5*s with few cards are usually more useful than fully upgraded 4*s.

Power of 5*s is fine considering their rarity. Maybe upgrade costs could be raised a bit - 500k is nothing compared to 350K for 4*s.