Rebalance guesses...

Handoftheking26

So the rebalance probably either has you terrified (you own a champed Bobby), or excited (you have a fully covered Cho). Was wondering what people are guessing/expecting from this update? I figure it means Cho, Reed, Quill, and maybe Sue(again) from 4* land will get a bump, and Psy, Spidey, and maybe Punisher from 3*s. Then Bobby and maybe JG or IMHB will get squished from 4*s, and IF and possibly IM40 or Cy from 3*s. Thoughts? (I really hope I'm wrong btw)

thisone

Teen jean, iceman, cho, starlord, devil dino and silver surfer.

DapperChewie

I'm just hoping they actually go and rebalance 3s, instead of just doing one or two and calling it good.

HaywireII

I have 250K ISO saved up and I'm scared to spend it now.

Dragon_Nexus

Heard about the rebalance during my saving up of 120CP to buy the last cover for Ice Man. I was in two minds as to whether to bother, but I made up my mind when a PvP token got me a second cover waiting in the wings and it wasn't a green. So I have literally this hour bought his final cover, maxed his level, champed him and sunk two covers into him. (His legendary token gave me a Kingpin Black I didn't need, so now I have to hope I get a purple or yellow within two weeks...)

So yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing how bad a decision it was to sink 120CP into a single character plus 90k ISO to finish him off right before he gets nerfed to hell.

But hey, maybe we'll be lucky and the only thing that happens is they reduce the stun timer and give him some fresh art work.

GrimSkald

It looks like they're going to make a change to Iceman - why else postpone giving out his cover last week? It should have been the rewards from PVP. By that token, it looks like they're not going to change Jean as she's being given out in Krakadoom and the PVP following. Similarly, it looks like IW won't get a boost because she was given out.

I don't get that, to be honest. I'd say the top tier of the 4* level are all pretty much on par with each other - IMHB, Cyclops, JG, IM, and Rulk all are about on the same power level (Peggy is probably there too, and Nova is close, I think.) I don't see a point to nerfing one, and honestly I don't see a point to nerfing them all.

As far as boosting go, Cho is an obvious candidate, Star Lord too, hopefully Mr F, Drax, maybe Elektra? Honestly, everyone I don't list in the above paragraph could really use a slight boost, at least, those six, maybe seven, really are far and away better than the rest of the 4* tier.

Vhailorx

Any nerf/buff list that makes jg a higher nerf priority than rulk is a bad one. Rulk has a far larger effect on the meta than anyone else.

Peggy probably will too, but so few people have get champed that no one has noticed.

Ice is at least powerful enough to reasonably claim the position of "best." so if you were going to nerf the top 4*s, he is a reasonable place to start. that said, I don't find him either ubiquitous or unbeatable at the 4* tier.

I guess we will have top see how big/bad the changes are. . .

The Herald

Improving the worst will rebalance the meta, whereas a hefty nerf to an alpha predator will risk throwing the whole game ecology into chaos.

Just flattening the power levels should be enough rebalancing. Nerf in should ideally be saved for if the improved characters cannot carve out their own niches after improving them.

GrumpySmurf1002

Vhailorx wrote:

Any nerf/buff list that makes jg a higher nerf priority than rulk is a bad one. Rulk has a far larger effect on the meta than anyone else.

PvP is not the only thing to consider. RHulk is quite strong yes, but I'd assume that Jean/Iceman are well more popular when considering their use across all available game modes.

Vhailorx

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

Any nerf/buff list that makes jg a higher nerf priority than rulk is a bad one. Rulk has a far larger effect on the meta than anyone else.

PvP is not the only thing to consider. RHulk is quite strong yes, but I'd assume that Jean/Iceman are well more popular when considering their use across all available game modes.

Almost no one who is good in PvP is bad in pve, including rulk. But the reverse is not generally true. I think it's fair, when discussing the meta, to consider PvP first and pve second. Also, now that boosted 4*s/5*s routinely push player teams well up above 400, the differences between pvp and pve are less marked than they used to be.

GrumpySmurf1002

Vhailorx wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

Any nerf/buff list that makes jg a higher nerf priority than rulk is a bad one. Rulk has a far larger effect on the meta than anyone else.

PvP is not the only thing to consider. RHulk is quite strong yes, but I'd assume that Jean/Iceman are well more popular when considering their use across all available game modes.

Almost no one who is good in PvP is bad in pve, including rulk. But the reverse is not generally true. I think it's fair, when discussing the meta, to consider PvP first and pve second. Also, now that boosted 4*s/5*s routinely push player teams well up above 400, the differences between pvp and pve are less marked than they used to be.

The reverse is a lot true really. There are plenty of character that are good for PvE but not really part of the PvP meta.

RHulk is good at PvE yes, but when all are unboosted, Jean (who can remove countdowns) and Iceman (who can stop them) have well more value, generally speaking. The latter also has the IM40 factor to give him even more value.

In any event, it's not a matter of discussing one first or the other. It's about discussing everything.

snlf25

My guess is that everyone I have at a decent level and well covered will get a vicious ravaging, their broken bodies left bleeding out in a dumpster. And then like a 5% increase in the damage done by Bag Lady and ****'s powers. Finally, for fun and balance, all Dark Avengers will receive a 75% increase in health and a 250% increase in damage dealt by their powers! Yay! I think we will look back on this post in a couple months and all agree that I nailed it.

Sandwichboy

Drax seems doubtful to me. As unpopular has he's turned out to be he's not borderline unusable like Cho, Mr F. or Sue. (though sue does still have that one useful trick with traps, but that's as niche as it gets) Would be nice if they re-re-re-balanced X-Force wolverine to at least be remotely relevant again.

Honestly, in terms of nerfs, I really don't see how any of the 4* characters need one. The devs have gotten pretty damned good at making powerful characters that still have multiple counters to them. JG, IMHB, Ice, Rhulk, Cyc are all solid characters, but none of them are as dominantly overpowered as XFW and Thor were in their heyday. And as many others have said, their ubiquity is owed at least partially to the fact that they've all been around longer than many other equally powerful characters (Peggy, Quake, Punisher, Nova, etc) I'm hopeful that at least with the 4*s they even the playing field by making the baseline closer to what the top tier plays like. Most of the underused characters are conceptually interesting, they just don't have the numbers to make them competitive.

Crowl

In a game with 5*'s, they really shouldn't be nerfing anyone below that tier, especially when it is down to RNG whether a person has a particular 4* champ or if they have been lucky enough to have a usable 5* instead.

mega ghost

Buffs:

4-star:

Elektra (minor tweaks)
Invisible Woman
Miles Morales (minor tweaks)
Mr. Fantastic
Nick Fury (minor tweaks)
Star-Lord
Cho
The Thing (minor tweaks)
Venom (minor tweaks)
X-Force Wolverine (minor tweaks)

3-star:

Beast
Captain Marvel
Daredevil (minor tweaks)
Doctor Octopus
Gamora (minor tweaks)
Loki (minor tweaks)
Psylocke
Ragnarok
Rocket & Groot (minor tweaks)
Sentry (minor tweaks)
Spider-Man
The Hulk (minor tweaks)
The Punisher (minor tweaks)

OneLastGambit

My guesses...

5* tier
Surfer : improve red damage lower ap cost of black and/or blue
Steve : remove end turn. Make blue use opponent special tiles instead of own

4* tier
Bobby : increase ap cost of Stun to 8 but decrease cost of punch to 4
Star Lord: increase purple damage, yellow no longer changes ap cost and instead is 6ap to fortify a CD tile of your choice
Cho: increase green damage, Make black more reliable

3* tier
Psylocke : improve damage all round
SG : remove end turn improve protects


That would be my first round of balancing

Vhailorx

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

Any nerf/buff list that makes jg a higher nerf priority than rulk is a bad one. Rulk has a far larger effect on the meta than anyone else.

PvP is not the only thing to consider. RHulk is quite strong yes, but I'd assume that Jean/Iceman are well more popular when considering their use across all available game modes.

Almost no one who is good in PvP is bad in pve, including rulk. But the reverse is not generally true. I think it's fair, when discussing the meta, to consider PvP first and pve second. Also, now that boosted 4*s/5*s routinely push player teams well up above 400, the differences between pvp and pve are less marked than they used to be.

The reverse is a lot true really. There are plenty of character that are good for PvE but not really part of the PvP meta.

RHulk is good at PvE yes, but when all are unboosted, Jean (who can remove countdowns) and Iceman (who can stop them) have well more value, generally speaking. The latter also has the IM40 factor to give him even more value.

In any event, it's not a matter of discussing one first or the other. It's about discussing everything.

you are correct grumpy. I didn't type what I meant. There are lots of solid PVE characters that struggle in PVP, though I think the difference is less significant than it used to be (with the exception of goons).