PVP struggles

Kjempen

I used to be able to score over 600 in PVP (my highest PVP score ever was about 800 points), not easily, but doable. Now after champing three 4*s : cyclops classic, hulk buster and Deadpool (and using them boosted or not - same experience) I struggle to stay over 500. My problem is defensive wins vs defensive losses and how quick the attacks come. Now I experience over a negative thousand points total in season from defensive losses (outside of shield simulator) and defensive wins is probably not even plus 10 points in total (outside of shield simulator). I don't use undercovered characters (which means I also don't use my 5*s), and I have only four 3*s left unchampioned. I try to stay with Rainbow coverage. Due to the amount of attacks and the low floating point (under 500 points) I don't even bother with shields. Anyone experiencing similar? Should I just have patience? Strangely enough I don't have so much trouble reaching 2000 points in shield simulator, and there the attacks are much much less frequent.

Quebbster

Growing pains are unfortunately typical whenever you move to a higher roster level. Now you get matched with other four-star players and since you (at best) have one boosted character you are probably seen as easy pickings.
Things will get better as your fourstar roster improves, you are basically at your most vulnerable now. With more fourstar champions to choose from, you'll be tougher to fight.
The slice you pick and how early you start influences this quite a bit too. Slice 4 is the easiest one to get high scores in allegedly, and slice 2 is the hardest. If you start playing early and go too high you may be the only reasonable target for a lot of other players - waiting a while to start can make a big difference.

Out of curiosity, have you leveled any of those fivestars?

Piro_plock

You probably try to climb too early in the event. Your floating point changes as the scores in the slice move up; try floating until 12-16h left in the event, then climb higher.

We_are_Venom

My issue with PvP is finding points. I was playing last night, 12 hours to go and I'm getting level 400 teams with 24 points. Id win, get 16 and come out negative from an attack.

I got irritated and shielded because I wanted the Thor cover. Come back 8 hours later, same teams, same point values. The top player has 2.5k yet I can't get 1k because team value are low while risk of loss is very high. Frustrating.

Ctenko

Recently champed my first 4star. A hulkbuster.

Apparently I can now fight people with champed 5stars... Hurray.

We_are_Venom

Ctenko wrote:

Recently champed my first 4star. A hulkbuster.

Apparently I can now fight people with champed 5stars... Hurray.

I've been fighting champed OML since I hit 10 champed 3*. I Wonder why it took you to champing a 4*?

Quebbster

Ctenko wrote:

Recently champed my first 4star. A hulkbuster.

Apparently I can now fight people with champed 5stars... Hurray.

I just maxed my first fivestar, that means I get matched with people with multiple maxed fivestars. The problem doesn't change as you get higher up on the ladder, though I admit it is easier to take on two fivestars with one fivestar than it is to take on one high level fivestar with a fourstar...
Anyway, use that skip button! Sometimes it takes a while to find the good matches...

Kjempen

Quebbster wrote:

Growing pains are unfortunately typical whenever you move to a higher roster level. Now you get matched with other four-star players and since you (at best) have one boosted character you are probably seen as easy pickings.
Things will get better as your fourstar roster improves, you are basically at your most vulnerable now. With more fourstar champions to choose from, you'll be tougher to fight.
The slice you pick and how early you start influences this quite a bit too. Slice 4 is the easiest one to get high scores in allegedly, and slice 2 is the hardest. If you start playing early and go too high you may be the only reasonable target for a lot of other players - waiting a while to start can make a big difference.

Out of curiosity, have you leveled any of those fivestars?

I read that some got matched with champed 5*s. I haven't seen that yet, but maybe I haven't managed to climb high enough. I do see some relatively high level 5*s, from about level 330 to about 420. Out of fear for facing champed 5*s I've left my 5*s at 255. I've made a mistake of rostering 5*s and levelling them early (back when I didn't even have a 3* champ). Decided to sell them, but now I'm keeping every 5* cover I get but I don't touch their levels.

jredd

same thing happened here. the past 4-5 seasons i hit 1000 regularly. levelled up some 4* when we got that iso influx. got bumped up to a stronger tier. hit 1000 once this season. and didn't need the cover to boot.

never played a game where improving your roster ends up making the game harder and a poorer experience.

Fightmastermpq

We_are_Venom wrote:

Come back 8 hours later...

This is your problem. You don't shield for 8 hours and then just hope it gets better when you come back. You had 8 hours to search for 3 good targets. You chose not to.

We_are_Venom

Fightmastermpq wrote:

We_are_Venom wrote:

Come back 8 hours later...

This is your problem. You don't shield for 8 hours and then just hope it gets better when you come back. You had 8 hours to search for 3 good targets. You chose not to.

I chose to go to bed.

Why are you so aggressive? It's so needless.

I searched for targets just before unshielding which I do and it was the same problem. I skipped so many teams I got locked out of the PvP for a time and went over my shield time.

I know looking for ways to blame the players not the system is a hobby but I covered my bases. I hit my mark and usually do, I just don't get why at 800 I'm seeing target values of 28-32 when #1 has 2.5k.

Again, it's a discussion not mortal combat.

GrumpySmurf1002

We_are_Venom wrote:

I just don't get why at 800 I'm seeing target values of 28-32 when #1 has 2.5k.

The teams you can see doesn't really open up until at least 1k, sometimes 1300. The person with 2.5k quite likely (but correct me if I'm wrong) has a championed 5* team.

I have a 375 OML, a decent range of 4* champs, and most events I can't see the 450+/450+ teams until I'm over 1300 AND there are limited targets of similar strength to mine. That works in the opposite direction too. Generally I don't see any cakes before 800, and depending on the rest of the activity in the slice, not before 1k.

Most events I experience exactly what you're seeing, there's a bottleneck in the 600-900 range where it's hard to find decent targets and requires either hitting a 30 point team just to hopefully reset the queues or skipping for a while until one pops up.

The overall general answer: the MMR restricts you to seeing teams of the same relative strength until you're at a high enough score, or there aren't enough 'normal' targets for you.

We_are_Venom

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

We_are_Venom wrote:

I just don't get why at 800 I'm seeing target values of 28-32 when #1 has 2.5k.

The teams you can see doesn't really open up until at least 1k, sometimes 1300. The person with 2.5k quite likely (but correct me if I'm wrong) has a championed 5* team.

I have a 375 OML, a decent range of 4* champs, and most events I can't see the 450+/450+ teams until I'm over 1300 AND there are limited targets of similar strength to mine. That works in the opposite direction too. Generally I don't see any cakes before 800, and depending on the rest of the activity in the slice, not before 1k.

Most events I experience exactly what you're seeing, there's a bottleneck in the 600-900 range where it's hard to find decent targets and requires either hitting a 30 point team just to hopefully reset the queues or skipping for a while until one pops up.

The overall general answer: the MMR restricts you to seeing teams of the same relative strength until you're at a high enough score, or there aren't enough 'normal' targets for you.

Maybe a PvP alliance is in order. With progression changes to PvE giving me better rewards individually now, I might get more from PvP than before. Going about it solo is very difficult.

GurlBYE

We_are_Venom wrote:

Fightmastermpq wrote:

We_are_Venom wrote:

Come back 8 hours later...

This is your problem. You don't shield for 8 hours and then just hope it gets better when you come back. You had 8 hours to search for 3 good targets. You chose not to.

I chose to go to bed.

Why are you so aggressive? It's so needless.

I searched for targets just before unshielding which I do and it was the same problem. I skipped so many teams I got locked out of the PvP for a time and went over my shield time.

I know looking for ways to blame the players not the system is a hobby but I covered my bases. I hit my mark and usually do, I just don't get why at 800 I'm seeing target values of 28-32 when #1 has 2.5k.

Again, it's a discussion not mortal combat.

People take the game super seriously and the people with better rosters hate pve because of scaling and like to pretend pvp isn't literally entirely in control of those with 4 star rosters, it's heavily skewed away from everyone else.

God forbid people who need 3 stars for champ levels and invisible woman of all the 4 stars aim for them.

It won't get better as you go further. By the time you get that late 4 star roster the stronger people will still be stronger, just in the future with 5 stars, some of which can already 1 shot a fully leveled 3 star and mid leveled 4 star on a bad day.
This is the same advice on these forums from last year when everyone was saying "just get your 3 stars up"

people have good rosters I'm willing to deal with that.
The queuing system is garbage, and the rewards are harshly out of proportion to how much effort and HP it takes to get them.

I shouldn't be seeing 3 targets worth 20-30 at 600 points at 60th place and see top 10 from 2500-1500.

I did manage to get 1 new target on force close.
The most obvious cupcake/trapcake I've ever seen.

Thor- 1 star storm, 1 star hawkeye for 75. (roster of champed 4s and some well leveled 5's)

Literally a Giant hornets nest if you dont' have access to the chat, and not even worth it.
I wish that if they couldn't fix the queue system at least make some sort of like symbol or something once someone hits 1000.
I personally only want pvp progression rewards, so I'd have no problem becoming a free for all target if i could ever reach that high lol.

GurlBYE

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

We_are_Venom wrote:

I just don't get why at 800 I'm seeing target values of 28-32 when #1 has 2.5k.

The teams you can see doesn't really open up until at least 1k, sometimes 1300. The person with 2.5k quite likely (but correct me if I'm wrong) has a championed 5* team.

I have a 375 OML, a decent range of 4* champs, and most events I can't see the 450+/450+ teams until I'm over 1300 AND there are limited targets of similar strength to mine. That works in the opposite direction too. Generally I don't see any cakes before 800, and depending on the rest of the activity in the slice, not before 1k.

Most events I experience exactly what you're seeing, there's a bottleneck in the 600-900 range where it's hard to find decent targets and requires either hitting a 30 point team just to hopefully reset the queues or skipping for a while until one pops up.

The overall general answer: the MMR restricts you to seeing teams of the same relative strength until you're at a high enough score, or there aren't enough 'normal' targets for you.

Thats a pretty horrible idea then and it just kinda allows stronger rosters to keep everyone else from reaching awards that the top of the food chain could have earned 3 times over with their score in 1 singular event.

So to see more targets you have to get high, but those targets can see you as you climb, and you just have to cross your fingers that they pop up in your queue of 2-4 teams that cycles endlessly at an iso cost.

But even if they pop up their team would take so long to fight you'd probably lose several times trying to fight them.

cyineedsn

We_are_Venom wrote:

My issue with PvP is finding points. I was playing last night, 12 hours to go and I'm getting level 400 teams with 24 points. Id win, get 16 and come out negative from an attack.

I got irritated and shielded because I wanted the Thor cover. Come back 8 hours later, same teams, same point values. The top player has 2.5k yet I can't get 1k because team value are low while risk of loss is very high. Frustrating.

Ymmv, but one reason you may have had problems finding targets was the timing. 12 hours left and (I'm assuming?) 4 hours left don't sound like great times to search. At 12 hours, alot of people with high scores are presumably shielded and getting ready to do either a) a 3hr and 8hr hop and shield to the finish, or b) waiting for 8 hours left do one last hop and shield to the finish. In both scenarios, most of the people you'd want to hit for points are probably shielded and waiting to pop out later.

The same logic applies at 4 hours left, anyone who is going to break out of their shield is either going to do it at sometime with less than 3 hours left, or at the very end of the event. I have no idea of shifting to playing at those intervals fits your schedule, if it doesn't, maybe you should try exploring playing at different slices times, good luck!

GurlBYE

cyineedsn wrote:

We_are_Venom wrote:

My issue with PvP is finding points. I was playing last night, 12 hours to go and I'm getting level 400 teams with 24 points. Id win, get 16 and come out negative from an attack.

I got irritated and shielded because I wanted the Thor cover. Come back 8 hours later, same teams, same point values. The top player has 2.5k yet I can't get 1k because team value are low while risk of loss is very high. Frustrating.

Ymmv, but one reason you may have had problems finding targets was the timing. 12 hours left and (I'm assuming?) 4 hours left don't sound like great times to search. At 12 hours, alot of people with high scores are presumably shielded and getting ready to do either a) a 3hr and 8hr hop and shield to the finish, or b) waiting for 8 hours left do one last hop and shield to the finish. In both scenarios, most of the people you'd want to hit for points are probably shielded and waiting to pop out later.

The same logic applies at 4 hours left, anyone who is going to break out of their shield is either going to do it at sometime with less than 3 hours left, or at the very end of the event. I have no idea of shifting to playing at those intervals fits your schedule, if it doesn't, maybe you should try exploring playing at different slices times, good luck!

Just for all posters here I'm not being aggressive at this point, im super curious.

Is there like one solid hour to climb.
Some people say stay away from the last 12 hours, some say climb then because people are unshielded at the moment,
Most can agree that the events open isn't the best time.

it feels like roster trumps all of these timing suggestions so hard.

Meander

We_are_Venom wrote:

Fightmastermpq wrote:

We_are_Venom wrote:

Come back 8 hours later...

This is your problem. You don't shield for 8 hours and then just hope it gets better when you come back. You had 8 hours to search for 3 good targets. You chose not to.

I chose to go to bed.

Why are you so aggressive? It's so needless.

I searched for targets just before unshielding which I do and it was the same problem. I skipped so many teams I got locked out of the PvP for a time and went over my shield time.

I know looking for ways to blame the players not the system is a hobby but I covered my bases. I hit my mark and usually do, I just don't get why at 800 I'm seeing target values of 28-32 when #1 has 2.5k.

Again, it's a discussion not mortal combat.

I think fight's ultimate point is that there's a large window to search for targets. If an 8 hour doesn't give you enough time to find targets and do whatever you need in real life then think about going to a 24. Also keep in mind, all the good targets are probably shielded. Without a BC, the only way you'll find them is randomly, and if the average window for an shield hop is 5-10 minutes, then it's gonna be pretty hard.

MarvelMan

GurlBYE wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

The overall general answer: the MMR restricts you to seeing teams of the same relative strength until you're at a high enough score, or there aren't enough 'normal' targets for you.

Thats a pretty horrible idea then and it just kinda allows stronger rosters to keep everyone else from reaching awards that the top of the food chain could have earned 3 times over with their score in 1 singular event.

Its not as bad as you think. Its also not strong rosters oppressing (help, help Im being oppressed!) those below, its those *BELOW* you that drag you down, the zombie horde.

Plus, you ignore/skip the strong rosters with few points, and take delight in soft rosters which have a lot (ie cc) so those make a bigger impact on your memory.

GrumpySmurf1002

GurlBYE wrote:

Thats a pretty horrible idea then and it just kinda allows stronger rosters to keep everyone else from reaching awards that the top of the food chain could have earned 3 times over with their score in 1 singular event.

But even if they pop up their team would take so long to fight you'd probably lose several times trying to fight them.

Yes, even if you could find the people at 2500, most players can't beat them anyway.

However, those 5* teams shouldn't be able to see you either, unless you're close to their level. I never get hit by 450/450 on the way up. Yes I get hit by somewhat stronger teams (like a 450 w/ boosted 4cyc this week), but not by the whales.

There're players with considerably weaker rosters than mine who score considerably higher. PvP really is just about understanding the out of game meta, even if you're not participating in it, and spending HP to overcome deficiencies. The latter is usually the large factor that people choose to ignore, but it's still a reality of scoring well with a weaker roster.

Fightmastermpq

We_are_Venom wrote:

I just don't get why at 800 I'm seeing target values of 28-32 when #1 has 2.5k.

In addition to the MMR reasoning that was already mentioned - there are several goofy PvP mechanics that all seem to occur from 800-1000 pts most of the time....

- The scoring goes to zero sum at 800. When someone hits you for 38 you lose 38, as opposed to lower scores where you lose less points. This creates kind of a natural float point at 800 for lots of players.
- MMR starts to open up a bit between 800-1000. 5* players see nothing but other 5* teams until they get close to 800-1000 (sometimes less if earlier, more if later).
- Cupcakes becomes visible here as well.

Because of these mechanics and the 4* cover at 1k, people will generally drop their first shield between 800-1k. So as you are climbing close to 800 it starts to get much harder to find valuable targets just because they are all shielded. I try to avoid hitting anyone less than 43, but sometimes you have to hit a couple low value targets to get up over 800 and open up your MMR a bit and/or start finding some cupcakes.