S.H.I.E.L.D. Clearance Level: Mission Rewards

13

Comments

  • slidecage
    slidecage Posts: 3,526 Chairperson of the Boards
    anyone else get put in a level they did not sign up for
  • mpqr7
    mpqr7 Posts: 2,642 Chairperson of the Boards
    I start tomorrow, as I use S5 for PVE. I'm terrified that I'll sign up for SCL 7 and get SCL 1. Wish me luck!! I hope it selects the correct SCL.
  • DFiPL
    DFiPL Posts: 2,405 Chairperson of the Boards
    Quebbster wrote:
    action711 wrote:
    Why are they giving Standard tokens for CL7 at all? Especially when David said no more Standard tokens for CL5 and up?
    I don't Think he ever said "no more standard tokens", just that Elite tokens would be replacing standard tokens. The Community read it as "all standard tokens" when he clearly meant "a few standard tokens"...

    As I said yesterday, language matters. "Elite tokens will be replacing standard tokens" is not ambiguous. The implication is that standard tokens in CL7 go bye bye, elite tokens take a bow.

    "Elite tokens will be supplementing standard tokens" is not ambiguous. The implication is that there will be a mix of standard and elite tokens. Whether that mix is achieved by adding elite tokens to the pre-existing standard tokens, or removing some standard tokens and replacing them with elite, the answer, to the extent it matters, is the same: you will see both types.

    Changing one word in the sentence changes the meaning of what you're trying to convey.

    Language matters.
  • DFiPL
    DFiPL Posts: 2,405 Chairperson of the Boards
    mpqr7 wrote:
    I start tomorrow, as I use S5 for PVE. I'm terrified that I'll sign up for SCL 7 and get SCL 1. Wish me luck!! I hope it selects the correct SCL.

    If it helps, I pre-selected SCL7 last night, and woke up to play in SCL7 this morning.
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    DFiPL wrote:
    Quebbster wrote:
    action711 wrote:
    Why are they giving Standard tokens for CL7 at all? Especially when David said no more Standard tokens for CL5 and up?
    I don't Think he ever said "no more standard tokens", just that Elite tokens would be replacing standard tokens. The Community read it as "all standard tokens" when he clearly meant "a few standard tokens"...

    As I said yesterday, language matters. "Elite tokens will be replacing standard tokens" is not ambiguous. The implication is that standard tokens in CL7 go bye bye, elite tokens take a bow.

    "Elite tokens will be supplementing standard tokens" is not ambiguous. The implication is that there will be a mix of standard and elite tokens. Whether that mix is achieved by adding elite tokens to the pre-existing standard tokens, or removing some standard tokens and replacing them with elite, the answer, to the extent it matters, is the same: you will see both types.

    Changing one word in the sentence changes the meaning of what you're trying to convey.

    Language matters.
    I agree. It could have been phrased better. On the other hand, hindsight is 20/20. I hope better phrasing is used in the future.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    DFiPL wrote:
    As I said yesterday, language matters. "Elite tokens will be replacing standard tokens" is not ambiguous. The implication is that standard tokens in CL7 go bye bye, elite tokens take a bow.

    "Elite tokens will be supplementing standard tokens" is not ambiguous. The implication is that there will be a mix of standard and elite tokens. Whether that mix is achieved by adding elite tokens to the pre-existing standard tokens, or removing some standard tokens and replacing them with elite, the answer, to the extent it matters, is the same: you will see both types.

    Changing one word in the sentence changes the meaning of what you're trying to convey.

    Language matters.
    Well, we've known ever since the Cyke 4* ability description (which still isn't fixed), that they have a hard time grasping the difference between "instead of" and "in addition to"...
  • The Herald
    The Herald Posts: 463 Mover and Shaker
    It could be a coding error, and we just have to choke on 1*s a while longer.

    Some official confirmation of what the mistake here actually was would be nice. The only action taken so far has been to unsticky the Elite Token thread and hope it goes away icon_neutral.gif
  • Pylgrim
    Pylgrim Posts: 2,332 Chairperson of the Boards
    DFiPL wrote:
    Quebbster wrote:
    action711 wrote:
    Why are they giving Standard tokens for CL7 at all? Especially when David said no more Standard tokens for CL5 and up?
    I don't Think he ever said "no more standard tokens", just that Elite tokens would be replacing standard tokens. The Community read it as "all standard tokens" when he clearly meant "a few standard tokens"...

    As I said yesterday, language matters. "Elite tokens will be replacing standard tokens" is not ambiguous. The implication is that standard tokens in CL7 go bye bye, elite tokens take a bow.

    "Elite tokens will be supplementing standard tokens" is not ambiguous. The implication is that there will be a mix of standard and elite tokens. Whether that mix is achieved by adding elite tokens to the pre-existing standard tokens, or removing some standard tokens and replacing them with elite, the answer, to the extent it matters, is the same: you will see both types.

    Changing one word in the sentence changes the meaning of what you're trying to convey.

    Language matters.

    Pretty sure that wording was chosen not as a description of how particularly Elite tokens would be distributed, but rather as an outrage-preventing reassurance that Elite tokens were a replacement for Standard, not Heroic tokens (and yet, there was still some outrage).
  • Uber303
    Uber303 Posts: 85 Match Maker
    Think you might find a lot of players just playing to progression now unless you make the alliance rewards better because it's just got a lot more competitive as far as I can see
  • Jexman
    Jexman Posts: 165 Tile Toppler
    For my roster CL7 is amazing. In three clearances of PVE I have the first CP progression reward. I'll get a legendary (by CPs) + a 4 star cover out of the event.
  • Nick441234
    Nick441234 Posts: 1,496 Chairperson of the Boards
    Typical the first 4* cover in progression is one of the few I already have 5 of.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    DFiPL wrote:
    Quebbster wrote:
    action711 wrote:
    Why are they giving Standard tokens for CL7 at all? Especially when David said no more Standard tokens for CL5 and up?
    I don't Think he ever said "no more standard tokens", just that Elite tokens would be replacing standard tokens. The Community read it as "all standard tokens" when he clearly meant "a few standard tokens"...

    As I said yesterday, language matters. "Elite tokens will be replacing standard tokens" is not ambiguous. The implication is that standard tokens in CL7 go bye bye, elite tokens take a bow.

    "Elite tokens will be supplementing standard tokens" is not ambiguous. The implication is that there will be a mix of standard and elite tokens. Whether that mix is achieved by adding elite tokens to the pre-existing standard tokens, or removing some standard tokens and replacing them with elite, the answer, to the extent it matters, is the same: you will see both types.

    Changing one word in the sentence changes the meaning of what you're trying to convey.

    Language matters.

    First off "Elite tokens will be replacing standard tokens" is ambiguous. It could mean replacing all or replacing 2. it could also mean, as was mentioned above, that they were just trying to preemptively clarify that they were intended as a replacement for ST and not HT. It's very clear that things changed a number of times between updates to the stickies as we saw with the mandatory levels. It's possible that earlier in testing it did replace all and they changed that. It's also possible, if not probable, that they intentionally chose langue with ambiguity because nothing was final. The knew that some standard tokens would be replaced with elite but no one was sure how many so they left it ambiguous. These kind of outrages are exactly why games try not to be forthcoming on changes they are working on. People lose their **** when it's one comma different from what they were 'promised'. Accept it as what it is and move on. Raging all over it will only make them less like to tell us anything about changes like these before they're released in the future.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,763 Chairperson of the Boards
    broll wrote:
    DFiPL wrote:
    Quebbster wrote:
    action711 wrote:
    Why are they giving Standard tokens for CL7 at all? Especially when David said no more Standard tokens for CL5 and up?
    I don't Think he ever said "no more standard tokens", just that Elite tokens would be replacing standard tokens. The Community read it as "all standard tokens" when he clearly meant "a few standard tokens"...

    As I said yesterday, language matters. "Elite tokens will be replacing standard tokens" is not ambiguous. The implication is that standard tokens in CL7 go bye bye, elite tokens take a bow.

    "Elite tokens will be supplementing standard tokens" is not ambiguous. The implication is that there will be a mix of standard and elite tokens. Whether that mix is achieved by adding elite tokens to the pre-existing standard tokens, or removing some standard tokens and replacing them with elite, the answer, to the extent it matters, is the same: you will see both types.

    Changing one word in the sentence changes the meaning of what you're trying to convey.

    Language matters.

    First off "Elite tokens will be replacing standard tokens" is ambiguous. It could mean replacing all or replacing 2. it could also mean, as was mentioned above, that they were just trying to preemptively clarify that they were intended as a replacement for ST and not HT. It's very clear that things changed a number of times between updates to the stickies as we saw with the mandatory levels. It's possible that earlier in testing it did replace all and they changed that. It's also possible, if not probable, that they intentionally chose langue with ambiguity because nothing was final. The knew that some standard tokens would be replaced with elite but no one was sure how many so they left it ambiguous. These kind of outrages are exactly why games try not to be forthcoming on changes they are working on. People lose their tinykitty when it's one comma different from what they were 'promised'. Accept it as what it is and move on. Raging all over it will only make them less like to tell us anything about changes like these before they're released in the future.
    Your explanation on what happens between testing could very well be accurate. Unfortunately the statement of "replacing standard tokens from CL5 and up" is not. Replacing some, replacing most, replacing certain would be ambiguous.
    The language we use and the devs use matter. Clear communication creates clearer expectations.
    Overall you are right at the end The changes were made, they communicted this poorly, and like you say move on.
  • GurlBYE
    GurlBYE Posts: 1,218 Chairperson of the Boards
    I mean I'd have expected them to replace all standards considering the elite don't have 4's.

    It's essentially more iso/ champ levels.

    but one thing good from them at a time as long as it's consistent is all we can ask for right now.

    Especially considering what isn't too far from now and how absolutely horrible that time was last year.
  • DFiPL
    DFiPL Posts: 2,405 Chairperson of the Boards
    broll wrote:
    DFiPL wrote:
    Quebbster wrote:
    action711 wrote:
    Why are they giving Standard tokens for CL7 at all? Especially when David said no more Standard tokens for CL5 and up?
    I don't Think he ever said "no more standard tokens", just that Elite tokens would be replacing standard tokens. The Community read it as "all standard tokens" when he clearly meant "a few standard tokens"...

    As I said yesterday, language matters. "Elite tokens will be replacing standard tokens" is not ambiguous. The implication is that standard tokens in CL7 go bye bye, elite tokens take a bow.

    "Elite tokens will be supplementing standard tokens" is not ambiguous. The implication is that there will be a mix of standard and elite tokens. Whether that mix is achieved by adding elite tokens to the pre-existing standard tokens, or removing some standard tokens and replacing them with elite, the answer, to the extent it matters, is the same: you will see both types.

    Changing one word in the sentence changes the meaning of what you're trying to convey.

    Language matters.

    First off "Elite tokens will be replacing standard tokens" is ambiguous. It could mean replacing all or replacing 2. it could also mean, as was mentioned above, that they were just trying to preemptively clarify that they were intended as a replacement for ST and not HT. It's very clear that things changed a number of times between updates to the stickies as we saw with the mandatory levels. It's possible that earlier in testing it did replace all and they changed that. It's also possible, if not probable, that they intentionally chose langue with ambiguity because nothing was final. The knew that some standard tokens would be replaced with elite but no one was sure how many so they left it ambiguous. These kind of outrages are exactly why games try not to be forthcoming on changes they are working on. People lose their tinykitty when it's one comma different from what they were 'promised'. Accept it as what it is and move on. Raging all over it will only make them less like to tell us anything about changes like these before they're released in the future.

    Incorrect. If they're replacing two, that's supplementation. If two are being added to what was pre-existing, that's supplementation as well.

    If standard tokens are removed and Elite tokens are added, that's replacement.

    Language matters.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    wymtime wrote:
    Unfortunately the statement of "replacing standard tokens from CL5 and up" is not. Replacing some, replacing most, replacing certain would be ambiguous.

    So you're saying that somehow adding a determiner somehow makes it more ambiguous? The role of a determiner in a sentence is specifically to add context and clarity to something ambiguous, in this case by clarifying quantity.

    The ambiguity comes from the the fact that they simply said that 'x will be replacing y' I've got a project to replace the windows in my house and that's how I describe it. However not ALL of the windows are being replaced, a few are not. The statement "I'm replacing the windows in my house with new energy efficient ones" is ambiguous because it's not clear how many windows are being replaced. It could be any number between 2 and however many the house has. The phrasing does imply that all are being replaced, but as it is not explicitly stated that all are. To believe that's what it says is an assumption and we all know what happens to those who assume.
    DFiPL wrote:
    If standard tokens are removed and Elite tokens are added, that's replacement.

    They did, they removed some standard tokens and replaced them with elites... Not sure how you guys aren't seeing that other than you don't want to... Face it an assumption was made based on ambiguous/unclear grammar and it dashed some hopes.
  • DFiPL
    DFiPL Posts: 2,405 Chairperson of the Boards
    broll wrote:
    They did, they removed some standard tokens and replaced them with elites... Not sure how you guys aren't seeing that other than you don't want to... Face it an assumption was made based on ambiguous/unclear grammar and it dashed some hopes.

    If you intend only to remove some, then "Some standards will be replaced with elites" is appropriate.

    Without that qualifier, "Standards will be replaced with elites" is NOT ambiguous if you're using language correctly. If the intent is only to remove some, then you need to either state "some" or use the proper word choice - in this case, something like "will be supplemented by" because that's what's going on.

    Removal implies totality. Go ask a surgeon sometime - if they tell a patient they're going to remove a growth, is the intent to leave any of it behind? If a surgeon used the word 'removed' and intentionally left some of that growth behind, whether benign or malignant, they would immediately find themselves in court, and language would be the reason why.

    Language matters. I'm not saying that standard tokens are cancer, but the word "removed" has a very specific meaning, and "leaving some or most behind" is not contained within that meaning.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    DFiPL wrote:
    Removal implies totality. Go ask a surgeon sometime - if they tell a patient they're going to remove a growth, is the intent to leave any of it behind? If a surgeon used the word 'removed' and intentionally left some of that growth behind, whether benign or malignant, they would immediately find themselves in court, and language would be the reason why.

    So every time a dentist removes teeth he removes them all then right? icon_rolleyes.gif
  • DFiPL
    DFiPL Posts: 2,405 Chairperson of the Boards
    broll wrote:
    DFiPL wrote:
    Removal implies totality. Go ask a surgeon sometime - if they tell a patient they're going to remove a growth, is the intent to leave any of it behind? If a surgeon used the word 'removed' and intentionally left some of that growth behind, whether benign or malignant, they would immediately find themselves in court, and language would be the reason why.

    So every time a dentist removes teeth he removes them all then right? icon_rolleyes.gif

    First of all, in the context of "language matters," it behooves me to point out that dentists will generally refer to such activities as an extraction; further, the procedure typically follows an examination wherein the dentist and the patient confer about the status of the patient's mouth and the necessary remedies.

    You don't show up, sit in the chair, and have the dentist say "k imma remove your teeth hold still" and have you wait to find out what the new arrangement of your mouth is. You know going in what's going to happen, and when it's complete, you know exactly what has happened.

    There is a reason medical professionals use precision in their communications. Ambiguity can get them in hot water.

    And, to repeat, "Standard tokens will be removed and replaced with Elite tokens" is not ambiguous.

    Language matters.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    You really refuse to see the forest for the trees... That was called an analogy and not meant to be taken literally. My point was you were comparing apples to oranges. A mass is a single entity by it's very definition. We are talking about something there are many of. I agree that if you say I'm going to remove the chair then that means you're going to remove the whole chair. So if we're at my house and it's time for dinner and I say "Go grab the cups please" only an insane person would think that means I have to go grab all 20+ cups out of the cupboard, instead of the 4 required. If someone says "x will replace y" and there are many x's then the statement is ambiguous because it is never clarified the quantity of x's that will be replaced.

    And, to repeat, "Standard tokens will be removed and replaced with Elite tokens" is ambiguous.

    The only reason I continue to argue this is because I do agree that language matters. I have said more than my piece and it's become clear that you are not likely to understand so this is the last I will say on this.

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