Dev Question

LordWill

Just curious if any future character releases will be healers or have healing abilities?

Don't need any time lines, would be nice though but just a general yes they are on the list or no plans to add any more. And if not, why?

Also for Demiurge_Will: Can you tell us the reasoning for community scaling when there is not a collective objective? What's the point of other players making my game harder in PvE for no reason?

NorthernPolarity

Can't answer the healer question obviously, but community scaling looks like a way for the difficulty to naturally adjust based off of how other players are doing. Its actually a pretty neat concept I think: levels that are unexpectedly very difficult will naturally decrease in difficulty as players continue losing to it, and missions that are too easy will naturally increase in difficulty as everyone's beating it. This allows all the missions in a PvE event to gravitate towards an average, intended difficulty.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Can't answer the healer question obviously, but community scaling looks like a way for the difficulty to naturally adjust based off of how other players are doing. Its actually a pretty neat concept I think: levels that are unexpectedly very difficult will naturally decrease in difficulty as players continue losing to it, and missions that are too easy will naturally increase in difficulty as everyone's beating it. This allows all the missions in a PvE event to gravitate towards an average, intended difficulty.

The only flaw in your logic is that when someone loses they may try again once or twice but then they stop trying so downscaling is less compared to the upscaling on players repeatedly beating a mission 5+ times.

Unknown

Madjam wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Can't answer the healer question obviously, but community scaling looks like a way for the difficulty to naturally adjust based off of how other players are doing. Its actually a pretty neat concept I think: levels that are unexpectedly very difficult will naturally decrease in difficulty as players continue losing to it, and missions that are too easy will naturally increase in difficulty as everyone's beating it. This allows all the missions in a PvE event to gravitate towards an average, intended difficulty.

The only flaw in your logic is that when someone loses they may try again once or twice but then they stop trying so downscaling is less compared to the upscaling on players repeatedly beating a mission 5+ times.

The system could easily take into account the number of people attempting a mission.

LordWill

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Can't answer the healer question obviously, but community scaling looks like a way for the difficulty to naturally adjust based off of how other players are doing. Its actually a pretty neat concept I think: levels that are unexpectedly very difficult will naturally decrease in difficulty as players continue losing to it, and missions that are too easy will naturally increase in difficulty as everyone's beating it. This allows all the missions in a PvE event to gravitate towards an average, intended difficulty.

I know what it is, I just don't know why it's community based and not individually based. I understand the concept. I just don't see why its a part of PvE without having some common goal everyone is working toward. I cannot think of any game in all my years in the gaming industry that does this. I have played every MMO there is probably and still can't think of one example.

Unknown

LordWill wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Can't answer the healer question obviously, but community scaling looks like a way for the difficulty to naturally adjust based off of how other players are doing. Its actually a pretty neat concept I think: levels that are unexpectedly very difficult will naturally decrease in difficulty as players continue losing to it, and missions that are too easy will naturally increase in difficulty as everyone's beating it. This allows all the missions in a PvE event to gravitate towards an average, intended difficulty.

I know what it is, I just don't know why it's community based and not individually based. I understand the concept. I just don't see why its a part of PvE without having some common goal everyone is working toward. I cannot think of any game in all my years in the gaming industry that does this. I have played every MMO there is probably and still can't think of one example.

Sounds like you are calling D3 innovative.

Eddiemon

Madjam wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Can't answer the healer question obviously, but community scaling looks like a way for the difficulty to naturally adjust based off of how other players are doing. Its actually a pretty neat concept I think: levels that are unexpectedly very difficult will naturally decrease in difficulty as players continue losing to it, and missions that are too easy will naturally increase in difficulty as everyone's beating it. This allows all the missions in a PvE event to gravitate towards an average, intended difficulty.

The only flaw in your logic is that when someone loses they may try again once or twice but then they stop trying so downscaling is less compared to the upscaling on players repeatedly beating a mission 5+ times.

The game will also be able to track and adjust for 5000 players beating down on mission 1 vs 50 players beating down on mission 2.

But if most people are beating a mission and can work out the strategy, then the prison who gives up shouldn't be rewarded.

morgh

If something is too hard people try it ONCE - they see what a beating they are taking and just steer clear... thus the scaling should be taking into account the lower frequency of attempts besides the obvious things like retreats and full 3*down defeats...

LordWill

Psykopathic wrote:

LordWill wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Can't answer the healer question obviously, but community scaling looks like a way for the difficulty to naturally adjust based off of how other players are doing. Its actually a pretty neat concept I think: levels that are unexpectedly very difficult will naturally decrease in difficulty as players continue losing to it, and missions that are too easy will naturally increase in difficulty as everyone's beating it. This allows all the missions in a PvE event to gravitate towards an average, intended difficulty.

I know what it is, I just don't know why it's community based and not individually based. I understand the concept. I just don't see why its a part of PvE without having some common goal everyone is working toward. I cannot think of any game in all my years in the gaming industry that does this. I have played every MMO there is probably and still can't think of one example.

Sounds like you are calling D3 innovative.

Um no. There's a reason you don't see it in other games.

Sandmaker

LordWill wrote:

I know what it is, I just don't know why it's community based and not individually based. I understand the concept. I just don't see why its a part of PvE without having some common goal everyone is working toward. I cannot think of any game in all my years in the gaming industry that does this. I have played every MMO there is probably and still can't think of one example.

That's because the term "PvE" is a misnomer for these events. At the end of the day, they're still PvP events, just a slightly different format. The main rewards for the events are still from competing and beating out other players in points. The community scaling is there to even out the playing field between high and low level players during these competitions. (Whether that's a good or bad thing is still up for debate.)

Eddiemon

LordWill wrote:

I know what it is, I just don't know why it's community based and not individually based. I understand the concept. I just don't see why its a part of PvE without having some common goal everyone is working toward. I cannot think of any game in all my years in the gaming industry that does this. I have played every MMO there is probably and still can't think of one example.

Most MMOs work on a pure grind model and revel in it. They are also generally dominated by people who have more time on their hands.

Unknown

LordWill wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

LordWill wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Can't answer the healer question obviously, but community scaling looks like a way for the difficulty to naturally adjust based off of how other players are doing. Its actually a pretty neat concept I think: levels that are unexpectedly very difficult will naturally decrease in difficulty as players continue losing to it, and missions that are too easy will naturally increase in difficulty as everyone's beating it. This allows all the missions in a PvE event to gravitate towards an average, intended difficulty.

I know what it is, I just don't know why it's community based and not individually based. I understand the concept. I just don't see why its a part of PvE without having some common goal everyone is working toward. I cannot think of any game in all my years in the gaming industry that does this. I have played every MMO there is probably and still can't think of one example.

Sounds like you are calling D3 innovative.

Um no. There's a reason you don't see it in other games.

Um. There's a reason you are in this game and not in other games.

Eddiemon

LordWill wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

Sounds like you are calling D3 innovative.

Um no. There's a reason you don't see it in other games.

You cannot have it both ways. Either they are doing something unique and hence innovative or else they are following someone else.

LordWill

Eddiemon wrote:

LordWill wrote:

I know what it is, I just don't know why it's community based and not individually based. I understand the concept. I just don't see why its a part of PvE without having some common goal everyone is working toward. I cannot think of any game in all my years in the gaming industry that does this. I have played every MMO there is probably and still can't think of one example.

Most MMOs work on a pure grind model and revel in it. They are also generally dominated by people who have more time on their hands.

Honestly I put in quite a bit of time to rank well in events... Granted this isn't a 6 hour raiding event but the hours add up, here and there and before you know it, in order to place well, you have to play and "grind it out"

LordWill

Psykopathic wrote:

Um. There's a reason you are in this game and not in other games.

I never said I didn't like the game, I love it. I'm honestly just trying to understand why they did the things they did. I don't have to agree with every feature of the game but I have strongly supported the game with my time and wallet. So don't misunderstand, I'm not stirring the pot because I hate the game, quite the opposite.

And yes I play this one more than the other mmo's now. It's fun and easy and on my phone

Eddiemon

LordWill wrote:

Honestly I put in quite a bit of time to rank well in events... Granted this isn't a 6 hour raiding event but the hours add up, here and there and before you know it, in order to place well, you have to play and "grind it out"

I can place well in events putting in 1-2 hours a day. I don't need to put in a 6 hour raid session and spend another 3 hours doing dailies and special instances to pay for the raid.

You can define any amount of time as a 'grind' as it pleases you, but the time required for this game is generally well less than your typical MMO. Exceptions are stupid events like the Hulk.

Unknown

LordWill wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

Um. There's a reason you are in this game and not in other games.

I never said I didn't like the game, I love it. I'm honestly just trying to understand why they did the things they did. I don't have to agree with every feature of the game but I have strongly supported the game with my time and wallet. So don't misunderstand, I'm not stirring the pot because I hate the game, quite the opposite.

And yes I play this one more than the other mmo's now. It's fun and easy and on my phone

They introduced it so there would be a balance between trivializing the game for end game users and preventing low ranked users from competing. Scaling is an attempt to do that. And for the most part, it works. New people can place at the top for an event or maybe two before scaling hits them and they join the middle of the pack fighting to climb back to that plateau. End game users can place high without needing to put in as much play time as they did when everyone had the same easy battles.

Those are the two big features of scaling. Everyone loves to complain about the 1* rosters at the top of PVE but I can almost guarantee that by the next PVE they get scaled away from being able to replicate that performance. Other than Hulk, the PVEs since they introduced scaling and tweaked it (i.e. post TaT where it was broken and Oscorp) most end game users have had to play a lot less to maintain position. Simulator and Brotherhood produced some of the most ISO while requiring many less matches played than the Hunt, TaT, Hulk, Red ISO, etc.

Nemek

Eddiemon wrote:

LordWill wrote:

Honestly I put in quite a bit of time to rank well in events... Granted this isn't a 6 hour raiding event but the hours add up, here and there and before you know it, in order to place well, you have to play and "grind it out"

I can place well in events putting in 1-2 hours a day. I don't need to put in a 6 hour raid session and spend another 3 hours doing dailies and special instances to pay for the raid.

You can define any amount of time as a 'grind' as it pleases you, but the time required for this game is generally well less than your typical MMO. Exceptions are stupid events like the Hulk.

I find 1-2 hours a day is about right. Having said that, 1-2 hours of your waking hours most days is still rather significant.

However, I do find myself thinking about the game (stategy-wise) or on the forums in addition to that, too.

Eddiemon

Nemek wrote:

I find 1-2 hours a day is about right. Having said that, 1-2 hours of your waking hours most days is still rather significant.

However, I do find myself thinking about the game (stategy-wise) or on the forums in addition to that, too.

I call that time 'work'. My boss might disagree.

There is a strong risk that I play the game more on the forum than in the client.

MaxCavalera

They should definitely add some one maybe on the villain side not sure what character the skills would fit best with but he would have two abilities one that heals him self via damage to the opponents and the one that sacrifices his own health to health the two allies.

Eddiemon

MaxCavalera wrote:

They should definitely add some one maybe on the villain side not sure what character the skills would fit best with but he would have two abilities one that heals him self via damage to the opponents and the one that sacrifices his own health to health the two allies.

Hellfire black or white queens might work.
Morbius.
Apocalypse.
Sinister.
Kang
Quicksilver maybe.
Omega red
Bastion
Dark beast. Hey he even fits with the setting.