misleading point indicator in PvP isn't fair

We_are_Venom

There is no reason that you choose an opponent, are shown a certain score, and receive far less. I understand why it occurs, but it really is unfair. I was playing simulator, 27 points from 2k, choose enemy worth 41 points, win, and I get 26 points, 1999/2000. I enter the next match, win, and I'm down to 1780's. That's asinine.

The "PvP" system sucks enough, getting screwed out of points in this manner is just an added kick in the nuts.

Dragon_Nexus

It's why I never bother with retalliations any more. I just skip through them.
The number of times a retalliation's marked as 60 points only for me to beat it and get 15...

We_are_Venom

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

It's why I never bother with retalliations any more. I just skip through them.
The number of times a retalliation's marked as 60 points only for me to beat it and get 15...

It wasn't even a retaliation. I grew tired of the bait and switch on retals. This was an initial battle.

HaywireII

They should lock the points in when you lock the team in. Since they could go up or down I don't see how that would hurt D3. Probably someone out there would figure out a way to abuse it though.

spydoorman

Yeah Ive had this happen in PVE also.. Worth xxx points and recieve yyy.

Ticket was treated the same as a pvp inquiry.

Mystery points, a new feature!

Jabrony_Geoff

I feel your pain brother ...PvP is truly broken.
Whover fixes it will surely earn the noble peace prize.

simonsez

Jabrony Geoff wrote:

I feel your pain brother ...PvP is truly broken.
Whover fixes it will surely earn the noble peace prize.

Make every battle worth 75 points, regardless of scores and roster.

firethorne

I think some are getting into an unnecessary philosophical debate. The question isn't wether or not points of queued teams should be changing over the hours you have them in queue. That doesn't need to change. The question is wether the game should accurately display what that value is when you look at it or wether it should display a number that could be wildly inaccurate.

I think what it boils down to me is, this is not something that should be broken. This isn't coming up with something to pass the Turing test, this is displaying a single integer.

IamTheDanger

This thread appears to have seriously derailed which required the removal of several posts. Attacks on other forum members and flame/troll posts are a violation of forum rules. And it's just plain rude. So please be polite and courteous when interacting with others to avoid more warnings and/or bans. Thank You.

alphabeta

So under your plan I could q someone for 75 point and come back in a couple of hours and they've been hit to hell and back but they are still worth 75 points?

simonsez

simonsez wrote:

Jabrony Geoff wrote:

I feel your pain brother ...PvP is truly broken.
Whover fixes it will surely earn the noble peace prize.

Make every battle worth 75 points, regardless of scores and roster.

edit for content

Please explain. I have lots of experience in getting yelled at by the mods and devs, and this deletion seems unnecessarily heavy-handed in comparison to the norm.

We_are_Venom

alphabeta wrote:

So under your plan I could q someone for 75 point and come back in a couple of hours and they've been hit to hell and back but they are still worth 75 points?

No they are worth whatever points they are worth, updated to account for all the losses.

alphabeta

We_are_Venom wrote:

alphabeta wrote:

So under your plan I could q someone for 75 point and come back in a couple of hours and they've been hit to hell and back but they are still worth 75 points?

No they are worth whatever points they are worth, updated to account for all the losses.

Then I'm confused - how long do the points hold for - 5 mins, 10 mins, 30 mins - an hour?

What if I start the match but come out of the app because I'm distracted by real life and its an hour before I can come back.

Either the point are worth what they are worth or they are locked in?

We_are_Venom

alphabeta wrote:

We_are_Venom wrote:

alphabeta wrote:

So under your plan I could q someone for 75 point and come back in a couple of hours and they've been hit to hell and back but they are still worth 75 points?

No they are worth whatever points they are worth, updated to account for all the losses.

Then I'm confused - how long do the points hold for - 5 mins, 10 mins, 30 mins - an hour?

What if I start the match but come out of the app because I'm distracted by real life and its an hour before I can come back.

Either the point are worth what they are worth or they are locked in?

You're over thinking it.

When you are scanning for an enemy, the point value should match precisely what the points are going to be when you win. If you start the match,decide to eat breakfast, take a shower, floss, catch reruns of Grey's anatomy and then come back to the match in progress, it's STILL worth what the points said when you started the match.

If you leave the app, the point values of the current people on your que should be updated.

alphabeta

We_are_Venom wrote:

alphabeta wrote:

We_are_Venom wrote:

alphabeta wrote:

So under your plan I could q someone for 75 point and come back in a couple of hours and they've been hit to hell and back but they are still worth 75 points?

No they are worth whatever points they are worth, updated to account for all the losses.

Then I'm confused - how long do the points hold for - 5 mins, 10 mins, 30 mins - an hour?

What if I start the match but come out of the app because I'm distracted by real life and its an hour before I can come back.

Either the point are worth what they are worth or they are locked in?

You're over thinking it.

When you are scanning for an enemy, the point value should match precisely what the points are going to be when you win. If you start the match,decide to eat breakfast, take a shower, floss, catch reruns of Grey's anatomy and then come back to the match in progress, it's STILL worth what the points said when you started the match.

If you leave the app, the point values of the current people on your que should be updated.

I don't see how one is different from the other (q and return) - the points value before you start a match is an indication based upon relative difference in scores at that point. Points awarded is based upon actual difference when the match completes.

Anything else is way to open to abuse - I can lock in point by opening a match and letting it sitting there.

It's the same as those threads saying that you should not be able to be hit while you are in a match - they just open even bigger loop holes for people to abuse than the current system.

aesthetocyst

We_are_Venom wrote:

You're over thinking it.

You're under thinking it.

I realize in the history of the internet, no one has ever been counseled out of their butthurt, but perhaps you'll be the first.

As for you statement that you've never had a queue pay more than the "estimate" ... ****. Either you just started playing PVP today for the first time, or you can't afford attention.

The fact that matches pay off based on the scores at the time the match conclusion registers is GENEROUS to the players in two primary ways:

1. To a point, players' scores tend to rise over the course of events (after all, everyone starts at 0!). Therefore, matches often pay slightly more when completed than they would have at the moment they were qd up. The longer held, the more they might pay. If you've pushed past the herd, past your equilibrium point, you may come across spectacular instances of the opposite (matches paying less), but giving up the general tendency of positive surprises to prevent the rare disappointment, by having the device tell the server how many pts the match was worth rather than vice-versa, is a fool's bargain.

2. In a perfect world, all data would be updated, sure. But that level of traffic would also tax the servers, players' devices, and the services connecting them. Resulting in higher costs and lowered stability. AND, basic signal theory, logic, physics will tell you it's literally impossible for everything to be in sync at all times. No matter how often you pinged the server, there would be a chance of transaction on the server affecting your queue without your knowledge. And having the server actively update user devices would require it to keep track of every device holding a particular q, or to update ALL devices as to the status of ALL qs, after EVERY transaction. Asking a bit much for a mobile game, methinks.

We_are_Venom

aesthetocyst wrote:

We_are_Venom wrote:

You're over thinking it.

You're under thinking it.

I realize in the history of the internet, no one has ever been counseled out of their butthurt, but perhaps you'll be the first.

As for you statement that you've never had a queue pay more than the "estimate" ... ****. Either you just started playing PVP today for the first time, or you can't afford attention.

The fact that matches pay off based on the scores at the time the match conclusion registers is GENEROUS to the players in two primary ways:

1. To a point, players' scores tend to rise over the course of events (after all, everyone starts at 0!). Therefore, matches often pay slightly more when completed than they would have at the moment they were qd up. The longer held, the more they might pay. If you've pushed past the herd, past your equilibrium point, you may come across spectacular instances of the opposite (matches paying less), but giving up the general tendency of positive surprises to prevent the rare disappointment, by having the device tell the server how many pts the match was worth rather than vice-versa, is a fool's bargain.

2. In a perfect world, all data would be updated, sure. But that level of traffic would also tax the servers, players' devices, and the services connecting them. Resulting in higher costs and lowered stability. AND, basic signal theory, logic, physics will tell you it's literally impossible for everything to be in sync at all times. No matter how often you pinged the server, there would be a chance of transaction on the server affecting your queue without your knowledge. And having the server actively update user devices would require it to keep track of every device holding a particular q, or to update ALL devices as to the status of ALL qs, after EVERY transaction. Asking a bit much for a mobile game, methinks.

No, it wouldn't tax the system, that's ****. It's literally no more complex than anything we already have in game.

You can come up with a million anecdotal justifications as to why the points shouldn't match what is being displayed, but you're wrong. It makes zero sense to have a point valuation that doesn't accurately represent the true point value.

There is no excuse. I'm spending ISO to find targets and when I finally find one, having it go from 55 points to 17 is ridiculous. Half the decision making process is the point valuation, and considering the importance of that score having it be incorrect is inexcusable.

Oh and no I've never had it worth more than displayed. And no I didn't just start PvP or "can't afford attention" whatever that means. It's never happened, simple as that.

fmftint

The reason is, other players also attacked that same person, you were the slowest so you get the least points.

And really it won't be more taxing? The servers don't even instantly update shield status, but you want real time match ppint updates?

We_are_Venom

fmftint wrote:

The reason is, other players also attacked that same person, you were the slowest so you get the least points.

And really it won't be more taxing? The servers don't even instantly update shield status, but you want real time match ppint updates?

Then they shouldn't be entering my que at the point total indicated. Earlier today I beat someone where before the match was 39 and I ended up getting 25. I cycled through my que and who do I see? Same person worth "37". I know, you know, you hit that person you are not getting 37 points. Why are they entering my que at that point total?

If the current system isn't good enough to handle what they want it to then it's not working as intended. As someone said earlier it's something that shouldn't be broken.

acescracked

Holy mackerel this isn't that complicated.

The point total given is a snapshot in time of the points you'll get if you hit and complete that node that second. Any other time after that you may get the same, less or more points based on the disparity in total points between you and the target.

D3 has actually stated that keeping the node point total constantly accurate is too taxing to the server and data from server to client. If you wait hours to hit a node; know they are worth more, or skip and get a fresh target.

\End

Salgy

Since this comes up so often, i will share 2 thoughts with the OP:

1. Never save an unverifiable target for longer than 10 minutes

If you browse the forums, there are as many posts about Incorrect pvp scoring as there are about getting slammed while trying to cross the 1k or 1.3k threshold... The time given is to placate all the "pvp etiquette" posts that keep popping up... 10 minutes allows for someone to finish their hop & shield up...

2. Only save verifiable targets

If you are looking for targets for a hop later in the event, only save scorers you can verify... Either, from within your own alliance, in your brackets leaderboard, in an alliance around your alliances rank, or in a top 10 alliance... If they have similar points, they will be worth 38 points to you, and the higher their score, the higher the possible points from the match are (up to 75)...