Determining Creature Placement

JanksMcJank

Sometimes it seems a creature is added to the back (2nd or 3rd) and other times it's added 1st.

I've had problems with strategy due to that.

The only behavior I can reproduce is when you control an opponents card, it grabs 1st slot and returns it to the highest slot (3, then 2, then 1 if no other creatures exist).

Is there a logic to why sometimes a creature ninja jumps into slot 1 and takes all the buffs? Is there a way to manipulate the ordering?

Fiddler

There is a logic, and I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.
A creature with defender will always move to the first spot.
A creature with reach has the next priority.
Effects that give a creature defender or reach will shift their order by the priority rule.

Plastic

Fiddler wrote:

There is a logic, and I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.
A creature with defender will always move to the first spot.
A creature with reach has the next priority.
Effects that give a creature defender or reach will shift their order by the priority rule.

In addition to the bolded part, if you have 2 creatures on the board that don't have defender/reach and eventually you give it to both of them, it reorders them based on which was played first.

EX:
Creature A without blocking abilities is played turn 1.
Creature B without blocking abilities is played turn 2.
Creature B is given reach on turn 3 and moves into the first creature space.
Creature A is given reach on turn 4 and moves into the first creature space, bumping creature B into slot 2.

Rootbreaker

Note that Veteran Warleader doesn't move when they get vigilance, presumably because it only lasts until end of turn, rather than indefinitely.

Shiser

Plastic wrote:

Fiddler wrote:

There is a logic, and I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.
A creature with defender will always move to the first spot.
A creature with reach has the next priority.
Effects that give a creature defender or reach will shift their order by the priority rule.

In addition to the bolded part, if you have 2 creatures on the board that don't have defender/reach and eventually you give it to both of them, it reorders them based on which was played first.

EX:
Creature A without blocking abilities is played turn 1.
Creature B without blocking abilities is played turn 2.
Creature B is given reach on turn 3 and moves into the first creature space.
Creature A is given reach on turn 4 and moves into the first creature space, bumping creature B into slot 2.

That doesn't seem to be the whole equation though, either. I've had two creatures with reach swap spots based solely on the slot 2 creature receiving a P/T boost...things also seem to go awry when your slot 1 creature is disabled (e.g. by Claustrophobia). I don't remember the exact circumstances, I just remember losing a key game last event because a newly-cast creature sunk into the Claustrophobic slot causing my important creature to be suddenly free to futilely smash itself into a vigilant first-striker.
But I digress...other factors to consider: defender seems to take precedence over reach, followed by vigilance. Also, due to wacky circumstances, creatures can end up with multiple overlapping abilities, or multiple instances of the same, how might this affect things?

blacklotus

vigilance doesn't change placement of creatures.

Plastic

Shiser wrote:

That doesn't seem to be the whole equation though, either. I've had two creatures with reach swap spots based solely on the slot 2 creature receiving a P/T boost...things also seem to go awry when your slot 1 creature is disabled (e.g. by Claustrophobia). I don't remember the exact circumstances, I just remember losing a key game last event because a newly-cast creature sunk into the Claustrophobic slot causing my important creature to be suddenly free to futilely smash itself into a vigilant first-striker.
But I digress...other factors to consider: defender seems to take precedence over reach, followed by vigilance. Also, due to wacky circumstances, creatures can end up with multiple overlapping abilities, or multiple instances of the same, how might this affect things?

Do you remember your exact creatures and which spell/support was played that affected the power/toughness you're describing?

Squirreljester

The creature's power matter too. If you have multiple creatures with defender then the most powerful will take the first spot, although it doesn't seem to matter about the creature's toughness, only it's power, for some odd reason since it seems to be based on defense ability.

JanksMcJank

I think this is one of the biggest barriers to entrance for the game.

Not placement, but that we're playing a strategy game without knowing the rules.

Needs to be simple enough you don't need to pore over the rules to get started, but if you have a question about why something is happening, you should be able to look it up.

This order changing and the "mystery graveyard" frustrate me enough I don't like dealing with cards that utilize those mechanics. I just can't depend on them or formulate strategy.

blacklotus

I use pen n paper to note down what I discard into my graveyard.i usually play as Liliana.

Pqmtg-

blacklotus wrote:

I use pen n paper to note down what I discard into my graveyard.i usually play as Liliana.

That's dedication! I just remember the last creature card and Yolo when I use her third ability.

blacklotus

Pqmtg- wrote:

blacklotus wrote:

I use pen n paper to note down what I discard into my graveyard.i usually play as Liliana.

That's dedication! I just remember the last creature card and Yolo when I use her third ability.

really wished there's an ingame grave yard view. like in the old microprose pc mtg game.