Devs - Sorin's 10/3/3

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Comments

  • tm00
    tm00 Posts: 155 Tile Toppler
    Maybe it is a stupid question, but if you really want your creature to not remain in your hand, why not run some defenders or berserkers? Black has a couple of good ones.


    I don't really see the issue with his card split, 3 cards is pretty generous as far as restrictions go to have access to both white cheap threats and efficient black removal, after all is in excange to lift the restriction about not being able to play ANY black card in your white deck, isn't it?

    And we already see the underwelming ability stitch on 3 of the others dual colored walkers to not have them supplant the mono colored ones.
  • Feagul
    Feagul Posts: 114
    tm00 wrote:
    Maybe it is a stupid question, but if you really want your creature to not remain in your hand, why not run some defenders or berserkers? Black has a couple of good ones.


    I don't really see the issue with his card split, 3 cards is pretty generous as far as restrictions go to have access to both white cheap threats and efficient black removal, after all is in excange to lift the restriction about not being able to play ANY black card in your white deck, isn't it?

    And we already see the underwelming ability stitch on 3 of the others dual colored walkers to not have them supplant the mono colored ones.
    Whoa, whoa, WHOA! How is 3 cards generous at spell and support? The only other planeswalker with a restriction of 3 in a single category is Koth, but keep in mind that he allows 6 spells. Let it sink in: There are three instances where planeswalkers are restricted to 3 of anything in their deck, and Sorin accounts for two of those. That brings his total between spells/supports to 6. The only other planeswalkers in single digits are the aforementioned Koth [9 - 6/3] and Nahiri [8 - 4/4].

    Stated differently: The only other planeswalker that is forced to run more than one creature in all of her builds is Nahiri [2]. Literally every other planeswalker can run a 1 creature build. Sorin, he's special--he's forced to run 4 creatures. At a minimum.

    As far as creature composition goes, I had the same thought as you RE: Defender/Berserker, but it's not working out for me. I'm running Felidar Sovereign, Linvala the Preserver, and Odric--all of which are natural defenders or can grant it (Odric). Still, I wind up creature flooded the vast majority of games that I've played with Sorin. I guess I could run worse creatures so that they die and my hand isn't flooded? The problem there is that all those creatures also have lifelink, which is amazing with his 3rd loyalty ability.
  • tm00
    tm00 Posts: 155 Tile Toppler
    If you have 3 defenders on the board, and they are surviving, how are you losing exactly?
  • Feagul
    Feagul Posts: 114
    tm00 wrote:
    If you have 3 defenders on the board, and they are surviving, how are you losing exactly?
    Care to show me where I said that I was losing? You do realize that winning with a bad planeswalker doesn't make him good by association, right? icon_rolleyes.gif
  • tm00
    tm00 Posts: 155 Tile Toppler
    If the drawback of having 4 creatures only shows up when you are winning is not that much of a drawback isn't it?
  • Feagul
    Feagul Posts: 114
    tm00 wrote:
    If the drawback of having 4 creatures only shows up when you are winning is not that much of a drawback isn't it?
    No, it's a drawback that when compounded with his bad ability set (hence horrible AI play) means I won't take him into PvP events, try reading my breakdown above. If you want a $40 planeswalker that is slower and has a lower power ceiling than any other premium planeswalker, be my guest.
  • Hibernum_JC
    Hibernum_JC Posts: 318 Mover and Shaker
    Plastic wrote:
    Hibernum_JC wrote:

    I can guarantee you there is a rework coming - it's actually what I was working on today, as a matter of fact.

    Again, this won't make it until the next major patch (but that should come sooner rather than later)....

    JC, is Sorin going to be out of the store before the rework? For those of us interested in him still, should we consider getting him now and then wait for the changes?

    Or is there an approximate timeframe he'll be in the vault for crystals?

    PS Happy belated birthday

    I'm not 100% privy to the schedule so I can't make an guarantees, but he should be available to purchase in some form when his rework comes through. What I will do is post the new design for Sorin a bit before the patch so you guys will have a chance to look at him beforehand.
  • Feagul
    Feagul Posts: 114
    Hibernum_JC wrote:
    Plastic wrote:
    Hibernum_JC wrote:

    I can guarantee you there is a rework coming - it's actually what I was working on today, as a matter of fact.

    Again, this won't make it until the next major patch (but that should come sooner rather than later)....

    JC, is Sorin going to be out of the store before the rework? For those of us interested in him still, should we consider getting him now and then wait for the changes?

    Or is there an approximate timeframe he'll be in the vault for crystals?

    PS Happy belated birthday

    I'm not 100% privy to the schedule so I can't make an guarantees, but he should be available to purchase in some form when his rework comes through. What I will do is post the new design for Sorin a bit before the patch so you guys will have a chance to look at him beforehand.
    Thanks for the info JC. FYI, I'm in SW & QA myself (SW Test Automation) so sorry if I'm giving you a hard time--love the overall product! icon_e_smile.gif

    (and happy Birthday)
  • Hibernum_JC
    Hibernum_JC Posts: 318 Mover and Shaker
    Feagul wrote:
    Hibernum_JC wrote:
    Plastic wrote:
    Hibernum_JC wrote:

    I can guarantee you there is a rework coming - it's actually what I was working on today, as a matter of fact.

    Again, this won't make it until the next major patch (but that should come sooner rather than later)....

    JC, is Sorin going to be out of the store before the rework? For those of us interested in him still, should we consider getting him now and then wait for the changes?

    Or is there an approximate timeframe he'll be in the vault for crystals?

    PS Happy belated birthday

    I'm not 100% privy to the schedule so I can't make an guarantees, but he should be available to purchase in some form when his rework comes through. What I will do is post the new design for Sorin a bit before the patch so you guys will have a chance to look at him beforehand.
    Thanks for the info JC. FYI, I'm in SW & QA myself (SW Test Automation) so sorry if I'm giving you a hard time--love the overall product! icon_e_smile.gif

    (and happy Birthday)

    Thanks!

    And to be honest, I really appreciate all the feedback, especially when it's negative but has a complete thought process behind it. It gives us a new outlook on things and helps us plan for the future. I mean, it's great to get praise and to know people are loving what we're doing, but at the same time when someone actually takes the time to explain why they are finding something to be "wrong" it's incredibly useful. Your post was very insightful, and while I can't say I agree 100% with each of your points, it is something to take into consideration.
  • tm00
    tm00 Posts: 155 Tile Toppler
    Feagul wrote:
    tm00 wrote:
    If the drawback of having 4 creatures only shows up when you are winning is not that much of a drawback isn't it?
    No, it's a drawback that when compounded with his bad ability set (hence horrible AI play) means I won't take him into PvP events, try reading my breakdown above. If you want a $40 planeswalker that is slower and has a lower power ceiling than any other premium planeswalker, be my guest.

    Is he at least good at being a self sustaining black walker that needs no healt potions?
    just speculating, but that might be the logic behind the cost and the second ability( generally useless, but good to recover a bunch of life for the next match before the alpha strike).
  • alextfish
    alextfish Posts: 192
    For what it's worth, I can see that the ability to sacrifice your own supports is interesting. There are quite a lot of supports that do something "when [this] is destroyed": the Blighteds, the Vessels, Hedron Archive, others less exciting like Infernal Scarring, as well as all the Investigate cards. (It's such a pity that it'll destroy Tamiyo's Journal as well as the Clues it makes.) Even so, that sounds like an interesting deck... just very janky.

    So I can see the appeal to having a fairly obscure, less-useful middle ability like that... but if you're going to do that, then the other two abilities should both be positive impact on the board. Making a token, burning/draining the opponent's creatures, buffing your own, anything like that. The killer is having both of the first two abilities negative to the board.
  • MTG_Mage
    MTG_Mage Posts: 224 Tile Toppler
    Sorin definitely needs rework in all areas. He should have at LEAST 4/4 spells/supports, and all 3 of his abilities are underwhelming and are not even similar to any of his paper versions. The ai will play him very poorly since it spams the first ability of planeswalkers and sometimes does the second. With sorins first being 9 and harmful thats not good. His second needs to be scrapped altogether. His abilites should damage opponents creatures or opponent directly and generate lifelink vampire tokens, which already exist (call the bloodline). His third ability should give +1/+1 instead of +1/+0 as well.

    Since we are talking about planeswalkers and JC has commented, please comment my 2 posts in my thread viewtopic.php?f=36&t=48824
    Ajani, Jace and Garruk can use some buffs as well.

    I would really like to hear from JC on this...or any of my threads for that matter.

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