Mirrorpool and Scions

TheLegendDan

I noticed something the other day which at first didn't strike me as unusual but it happened again today as well as a variation.

Mirrorpool states:
"When a creature you control enters the battlefield, Reinforce it then Destroy this support.
When you cast a spell you control, the first spell in your hand becomes free then Destroy this support."

So i used it, and then cast a spell. Call the Scions. But instead of my next spell being free, i got an extra scion.

I thought cool! Bonus. Except the next spell (which should have been free) was call the scions. So actually i lost a scion on this play.

So i used mirrorpool again, this time i cast a creature. Birthing Hulk. But instead of getting a 10/8 hulk and 2 scions, i got a 5/4 hulk and once again bonus scion.

Now i don't pretend to know all the rules and intricacies of mtg pq or paper but, logically if i cast a spell or summon a creature, mirrorpool should target them, not the result of casting said spell or creature.

Or am i wrong here?

Netatron

Tokens summoned by a card basically finish processing before the card that summoned them. It sorta makes sense when you think of them as code.

TheLegendDan

But, how can the token be summoned by something which hasn't fully resolved?

The birthing hulk summons the scions when it enters the battlefield. By the text on mirrorpool this should trigger the mirrorpool effect.

Also mirrorpool triggers on the first scion, not the second, which means that the trigger for mirrorpool is not actually the entrance to the battlefield. It's something else.

Mirrorpool should trigger on the first card out. The cards are laid down in order with the hulk coming first then 2 scions. There is no logical reason the scion should trigger mirrorpool as the hulk entered the battlefield first, fully resolved or not.

Reaganstorme

Mirrorpool triggers on the first card that finishes entering the battlefield.

Lets take Birthing Hulk as an example:

Birthing Hulk enters the battlefield
--> Eldrazi Scion 1 enters the battlefield.
--> If no other defenders present, Eldrazi Scion is moved to First position bumping up other creature/s. If defender present, moves into Second creature position, bumping up Birthing Hulk to Third position.
--> Eldrazi Scion 1 finishes entering the battlefield.
Mirrorpool activates here. As do a number of other boosting supports.
--> Eldrazi Scion 2 enters the battlefield.
--> Eldrazi Scion already present so battlefield positions not changed.
--> Eldrazi Scion 2 finishes entering the battlefield.
Birthing Hulk finishes entering the battlefield.

Its all to do with the "check loading position" logic for a new creature entering the battlefield, and Eldrazi Scions finish this check before their initiating creature.

I suspect that spells have been changed because it appears that Mirrorpool is boosting the next spell now instead of any creature tokens that are created. I'm not so sure of this effect though.

TheLegendDan

That may be the technical reason why the cards are behaving the way they do. I'm saying that logically the hulk should resolve, triggering mirrorpool effect before the scions are summoned.

Card text is everything. For one, the original paper mirrorpool targeted creatures, you could choose, why would i choose to reinforce a 1/1 scion over a 5/4 hulk? Secondly the cards should trigger simultaneously meaning the only viable target is the hulk as both use "enters battlefield" for their effects.

Technically the hulk does not resolve until the scions are placed, but I'm saying that because of this, mirrorpool is targeting the wrong card. Thus i posted in bugs/technical and not suggestions.

Same with spell, the spell doesn't resolve until the scions are placed, causing mirrorpool to target the wrong Card. As you pointed out it seems to work properly with other spells which create tokens.

I'm just hoping it gets fixed and that it's not functioning as it was meant to. Just seems a little silly to bump a 1/1 with a mythic, even if it only costs 4 mana.

Netatron

TheLegendDan wrote:

Just seems a little silly to bump a 1/1 with a mythic, even if it only costs 4 mana.

It's already arguably the most versatile card in the game, I think it's okay that there are a few cards it doesn't work well with.

thurule

I absolutely agree that it works incorrectly. Either make it work the way it's written or change how it's written. If that's the way it works in the code, then your code is wrong.

A spell has to complete before it can put tokens into play. A creature has to come into play before it can put a token into play.

It's just another bug they don't care enough to fix.