Iceman vs 4hor - Which one should get Cover 13 first?

sambrookjm

I'm currently saving up to 120 Command points to buy a 13th cover for one of my characters. It was originally going to be Iceman, who is currently at 4/5/3. Then, in an incredibly lucky Heroic Token pull, I got cover #12 for my 4-star Thor, who is now sitting at 4/3/5. Hooray! When I get a 4-star up to 12 covers, I usually save the CP until I can buy cover 13; the last one I did was Elektra, prior to Iceman getting his 12th cover. This is the first time I've had two of them at 12 covers at once.

Which character would be better to buy the cover for first? It's not like I've got the ISO to bring either of them anywhere near LVL 270 right now, so that process will take quite some time. I'm just curious what everyone else has to say about it. As a follow up question, which cover would be better for each character to purchase?

morph3us

Iceman, hands down. Self accelerates, great stun, great nuke, great AE. Better stun, better AE, better nuke (arguably on the last) than 4Thor. Iceman is probably the best stand alone 4* out there.

The actual cover you buy doesn't matter in the long run, since you're going to champ them anyway, so you get to respec at will at that point. But 5/5/3 for Iceman until you max him.

Quibbles

I'd handle a different way--continue holding and wait until you have enough iso to max either one. Then wait until you draw a cover for either. Then use your iso to buy the 13th, champion the character and then use the first cover to get your LT. Both are excellent, especially used with 3* IM. You can crush your way through the toughest teams with a 535 4Thor. Throw as many blues as possible and then hit with reds. 30k hits are easy. Similarly, iceman can take down whole teams with a green and clean up any left overs with a blue or two. When boosted, these can be laughably quick matches.

cyineedsn

I'd vote to keep saving that CP doing token pulls instead. As others have mentioned, eventually you'll champ them and max them anyway, but in the long run, chances at pulling 5*s are what really, really, really, really, really, really matters.

That said, if you really, really, really want to buy a cover, Iceman >>>> 4thor. He works just as good with IM40 for PVE purposes, and 9 out of 10 times in PVP people would rather attack a 4thor team than fight an iceman team.

El Satanno

+1 more for Quibbles' post. Don't buy covers. Ever.* You'll get the covers sooner or later and the CP is much more valuable for Classic LT pulls.

*Caveat: There is a decent argument to be made for saving 720 CP to buy a Logan/Phoenix cover. However that is a strategy best left for another thread.

Polares

El Satanno wrote:

+1 more for Quibbles' post. Don't buy covers. Ever.* You'll get the covers sooner or later and the CP is much more valuable for Classic LT pulls.

*Caveat: There is a decent argument to be made for saving 720 CP to buy a Logan/Phoenix cover. However that is a strategy best left for another thread.

I also agree to this general rule BUT I would maybe make an exception depending on if he already has a top-tier 4 already champed or not. If Iceman is your first top tier 4 then yes buy the last iceman cover so you have better options for the future. You will get to 1000 and 1300 much easily once you have a top tier 4 champed so you will recover those 120 CPs very fast.

Nerver EVER use it for someone like Elektra, not even for 4hor.

Vhailorx

I disagree with quibbles in this specific instance. As general advice, this is fine. But for Iceman in particular, it doesn't make sense unless TC already has a very strong 4* roster (say JG and/or rulk + a couple of cyclops, imhb, peggy, quake, nova, kate, moonknight, pun max).

Iceman is the best all-around 4* in the game. He's good at everything and plays extraordinarily well with a 3* that TC should already have champed (im40). There is basically no cost to champ'ing him as soon as possible. Any opportunity cost with other characters is dwarfed by ice's general utility.

Champ ice immediately!

Satanno: Iceman is the 4* equivalent of OML/PH (best in class, solid all-around character). He is one of the few characters for which I think it's ever worth considering a direct buy (especially for someone without a deep 4* bench).

Edit: OJSP is absolutely correct to check the upcoming 1k cover list. Ice is up soon, and since you don't have the iso to Champ him today, I would start hoarding iso and wait for that cover, once Iceman has 13/13 covers, he should be your #1 priority for iso.

Quebbster

Quibbles wrote:

I'd handle a different way--continue holding and wait until you have enough iso to max either one. Then wait until you draw a cover for either. Then use your iso to buy the 13th, champion the character and then use the first cover to get your LT. Both are excellent, especially used with 3* IM. You can crush your way through the toughest teams with a 535 4Thor. Throw as many blues as possible and then hit with reds. 30k hits are easy. Similarly, iceman can take down whole teams with a green and clean up any left overs with a blue or two. When boosted, these can be laughably quick matches.

Are you suggesting he should spend 120 CP to get a legendary token? Isn't it better to just spend that CP directly on six Classic legendary tokens?

The Herald

Quebbster wrote:

Quibbles wrote:

I'd handle a different way--continue holding and wait until you have enough iso to max either one. Then wait until you draw a cover for either. Then use your iso to buy the 13th, champion the character and then use the first cover to get your LT. Both are excellent, especially used with 3* IM. You can crush your way through the toughest teams with a 535 4Thor. Throw as many blues as possible and then hit with reds. 30k hits are easy. Similarly, iceman can take down whole teams with a green and clean up any left overs with a blue or two. When boosted, these can be laughably quick matches.

Are you suggesting he should spend 120 CP to get a legendary token? Isn't it better to just spend that CP directly on six Classic legendary tokens?

Because 6 Cho covers means he can work on the clearly superior Champion option of Totally Awesome Hulk

I'm kidding! I'm kidding! I swear I'm not having another freak out like Sunday! (Mmmmmmm... Codeine...)

I would suggest a hybrid method of what's been suggested so far.

Save iso8 up, or pour it into Iceman so he's usable.
Reserve 120 CP (so dump a Classic cover every 140th for them sweet, sweet Cho blacks).
See if an Iceman cover drops on its own.

Once you have the iso8 set, THEN make you move. With a little luck you can splurge your CP later fishing for 5*s, but you've held them as a contingency short term

DFiPL

Quebbster wrote:

Quibbles wrote:

I'd handle a different way--continue holding and wait until you have enough iso to max either one. Then wait until you draw a cover for either. Then use your iso to buy the 13th, champion the character and then use the first cover to get your LT. Both are excellent, especially used with 3* IM. You can crush your way through the toughest teams with a 535 4Thor. Throw as many blues as possible and then hit with reds. 30k hits are easy. Similarly, iceman can take down whole teams with a green and clean up any left overs with a blue or two. When boosted, these can be laughably quick matches.

Are you suggesting he should spend 120 CP to get a legendary token? Isn't it better to just spend that CP directly on six Classic legendary tokens?

Depends on the goal. For me, I don't PVP enough that I'd ever find it worthwhile to buy a cover directly for the sake of maxchamp'ing a character. Even Iceman. So those six classic tokens would build out my 4* bench, making more characters potentially worth using for me in PVE.

But someone who's looking to make strides in PVP, a maxchamp'ed Iceman is going to be more useful (and put them in a better position to reach 1000/1300 regularly) than a third cover for Cyclops or a second for War Machine, just as random examples. I'd take the six covers over one, but my goals aren't necessarily his.

On the third hand (mutant!!!) if he's got a bunch of 4* characters in the high single digits or low double digits for covers, those six tokens may essentially turn into 6000 ISO. In that light, what ends up being more valuable? 6000 ISO, or a maxchamp'ed Iceman?

I'm not arguing for buying covers over buying tokens as a matter of course, but I do think there's a defensible case to be made. Just depends on where he is and where he wants to go.

Quebbster

DFiPL wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

Quibbles wrote:

I'd handle a different way--continue holding and wait until you have enough iso to max either one. Then wait until you draw a cover for either. Then use your iso to buy the 13th, champion the character and then use the first cover to get your LT. Both are excellent, especially used with 3* IM. You can crush your way through the toughest teams with a 535 4Thor. Throw as many blues as possible and then hit with reds. 30k hits are easy. Similarly, iceman can take down whole teams with a green and clean up any left overs with a blue or two. When boosted, these can be laughably quick matches.

Are you suggesting he should spend 120 CP to get a legendary token? Isn't it better to just spend that CP directly on six Classic legendary tokens?

Depends on the goal. For me, I don't PVP enough that I'd ever find it worthwhile to buy a cover directly for the sake of maxchamp'ing a character. Even Iceman. So those six classic tokens would build out my 4* bench, making more characters potentially worth using for me in PVE.

But someone who's looking to make strides in PVP, a maxchamp'ed Iceman is going to be more useful (and put them in a better position to reach 1000/1300 regularly) than a third cover for Cyclops or a second for War Machine, just as random examples. I'd take the six covers over one, but my goals aren't necessarily his.

On the third hand (mutant!!!) if he's got a bunch of 4* characters in the high single digits or low double digits for covers, those six tokens may essentially turn into 6000 ISO. In that light, what ends up being more valuable? 6000 ISO, or a maxchamp'ed Iceman?

I'm not arguing for buying covers over buying tokens as a matter of course, but I do think there's a defensible case to be made. Just depends on where he is and where he wants to go.

As I understand it, he advocated waiting until he OP already had 13 covers for Iceman/Thor, then use CP to buy a cover, max them, and use the thirteenth pulled cover as a champion level. I might have misunderstood, but if that was the intent it would basically mean burning 120 CP to get a Latest Legends token, which practically means you lose out on 95 CP unnecessarily.

Jarvind

I'm normally against buying covers directly, but in the case of Iceman I'd probably make an exception. He's a top tier 4* - possibly the best one, honestly. Getting him fully covered can make a huge difference to a roster, whereas a maxed Fury, for example, is nice to have but not game-changing.

Particularly with how easy it is to hit the CP progression in the new PVE system, I'd say this is one of the rare times buying a 4* cover makes sense. I would agree with Quibbles, though, that waiting until you have the ISO to max him out would be wise. You never know when RNGesus will bless you with a rain of covers for a particular character that you don't want to let go to waste - and alternatively there's a chance you'll just pull the cover from a token in the meantime.

MarvelMan

Bottom line....hoard til you at least have the iso before you decide what to do.

And based on your admission of lacking iso, the odds that you will be able to get that IceIceBaby purple in three weeks negates needing to spend the 120 CP. I wouldnt consider spending it for SheThor either, wait on that red. 120 cp is a pretty high cost for something you know will be coming fairly soon. Be willing to spend a little more HP on shields and see what you can do for those two.

sambrookjm

Wow...a lot of good advice here. Thanks to everyone. To answer some of the other questions that came up.

Currently, my Iceman is LVL 213 (and rising! , while my 4hor is at 176, so I'm a minimum of two weeks away from getting the ISO for Iceman, and probably a good month or so for 4hor.

I'm generally not much into the PvP; I usually get about 400 pts in those events. I generally focus on the PvE, and usually get in the top 50-100 for those. Getting the 25 CP in the events is pretty easy.

I have a few champed 4-stars: Hulk Buster, Jean Grey and Elektra (spending 120 CP on each of their 13th covers after having the ISO to get them up and champ them.) I'm one 3-star Punisher LVL from getting a cover for Elektra, but that would have been one that was already at LVL 5 pre-champing. I've also got Invisible Woman and X-Force Wolverine champed because they're the oldest 4-stars. Beyond that, I have a dozen or so that have five covers in one of their abilities. (Insert my requisite gripe about getting TWELVE Demolitions for my 2/5/3 Nick Fury. That's one of the reasons I've been spending the 120 CP on Cover #13 for those three characters.) Their total covers range from 12 (Iceman and 4hor) to 7 for my 5/0/2 Prof X. I'd be remiss if I failed to mention my LVL 70 5/1/2 Totally Awseome Hulk and my 2/4/5 Mr Fantastic.

I have most of the older 5-stars (no Black Suit Spidey), but they're all at LVL 271 (Silver Surfer) or below. My Old Man Logan is 2/0/0, so I'm missing out on his yellow. He appears in about 70-80% of the PvP matches I get paired up with, which is really annoying.

Again, thanks for all the advice! This is way more discussion than I thought would occur here.