Suggested drawback for Old Man Logan

The Herald

Here's a suggestion to put the Old Man back into Old Man Logan.

Shove this on the bottom of his yellow cover.

Old Man: Not the hero he used to be; when below half health Logan deals half damage, creates half strength Strike Tiles, and only heals half as much.

It shows off a bit better this is a Wolverine past his prime (not a character that better suits a reskin into when he was a horseman of Apocalypse), makes his health loss a bit more of a tactical problem than slightly lower healing, and takes the overwhelming edge off of him while creating play states where protecting him may be necessary to turn a losing match around.

fmftint

Past his prime Wolverine

killed the Hulk's family single handed, survived being eaten by Hulk, then gutted him from the inside

You slow his healing by taking out his friends

The Herald

fmftint wrote:

Past his prime Wolverine

killed the Hulk's family single handed, survived being eaten by Hulk, then gutted him from the inside

You slow his healing by taking out his friends

I've read it, it's pretty damn good

But he DOES have to get by with worse healing, needing recovery time to come back, while this character may as well be a Herald of Galactus for power levels (he's certainly better than Silver Surfer in game).

I'm definitely grasping at straws here though. How Do Nerf?

MarcusGraves

The Herald wrote:

I'm definitely grasping at straws here though. How Do Nerf?

You don't, 5*'s are D3's sweet little cash cows and they don't give a rat's **** if they're OP or not because they were intentionally designed to be OP.

They'll never be balanced with their disgustingly high HP/tile strength and D3 won't lift a finger while the money's coming in.

The Herald

MarcusGraves wrote:

The Herald wrote:

I'm definitely grasping at straws here though. How Do Nerf?

You don't, 5*'s are D3's sweet little cash cows and they don't give a rat's **** if they're OP or not because they were intentionally designed to be OP.

They'll never be balanced with their disgustingly high HP/tile strength and D3 won't lift a finger while the money's coming in.

This may be the painkillers talking, but I have hope that they DO intend to balance the game. But they're conservative about it and see the in-game ecology as better at a slight slant while they work it out than risking a massive imbalance they have to backtrack over.

I can empathise with that. They don't want to be reversing decisions every other week. Skewed stability beats whiplash O.o

MarcusGraves

Problem is that it's already too late to backtrack, they had their chance when they released SS as the very first and the community gave their feedback as to how stupid powerful it was and how it would make lot of characters irrelevant. Everyone got to try it too because they let us play a node where it was just SS vs I think it was HB, Carnage and 4hor and he completely manhandled the whole team solo w/o breaking a sweat and this is the 5* that was considered the worst until the recently released 5*cap.

The game's whales have tasted how powerful 5* tier is and whales thrive on being the strongest around, keeps them wanting to play, take power away from those mighty characters they've sunk their money into and they'll become unhappy and either stop spending or leave which is not what the dev's want.

Dev's dug their hole and chose to lay in it.

morph3us

Honestly, OML isn't the strongest of the 5*s. Wait until you get trampled by a fully covered Green Goblin, or IM46 (or Banner or Bolt later). I have a nearly fully covered OML and Phoenix, and I think three times before I even think about taking on Green Goblin. It's just that there are fewer fully covered Goblins and IM46s around at the moment.

stewbacca

Plus they are trying to add powers to at least challenge it. Kate Hawk has the negate healing, plus a few other 4* are getting the complimentary powers to assist in a takedown.

elwhiteninja

The Herald wrote:

fmftint wrote:

Past his prime Wolverine

killed the Hulk's family single handed, survived being eaten by Hulk, then gutted him from the inside

You slow his healing by taking out his friends

How Do Nerf?

All they need to do is lower all the 5* match damage and a little bit of hp. Everything else is fine, because of stuns

Mitchjewitz

First off, 5*s were always supposed to be godly compared to the other star tiers. Taking away their match damage and health makes them normal super hard to get characters. In other words, if they nerf 5*s there would be no point in collecting them unless you are a completionist. It would take way too long to get all the covers and not enough reward out of the characters themselves.
Secondly, the whales have had these 5*s for months and have had fun with their full power. Now that you can start maxing your own 5*s, you want to nerf them and miss out on your own fun? It doesn't make sense to me.

Polares

morph3us wrote:

Honestly, OML isn't the strongest of the 5*s. Wait until you get trampled by a fully covered Green Goblin, or IM46 (or Banner or Bolt later). I have a nearly fully covered OML and Phoenix, and I think three times before I even think about taking on Green Goblin. It's just that there are fewer fully covered Goblins and IM46s around at the moment.

OML is very good, he really is, but people think he is the best just because they have played just against him (and maybe some PHs and some SSs).

Even in 5 land, I barely see IM46 and GG. Now I am starting to see BSpidey, which is the 5 I fear the most (he basically makes my 5s 'useless'). So I agree, we will start to see other 5s soon. OML is still the best 5 for climbing, but when doing shield hops he is not even top3 !!! (:O :O :O)

OneLastGambit

morph3us wrote:

Honestly, OML isn't the strongest of the 5*s. Wait until you get trampled by a fully covered Green Goblin, or IM46 (or Banner or Bolt later). I have a nearly fully covered OML and Phoenix, and I think three times before I even think about taking on Green Goblin. It's just that there are fewer fully covered Goblins and IM46s around at the moment.

Completely agree here but with a slight change...black suit spidey is best in 5* tier not due to his abilities but due to the fact that he nullifies the most reliably threatening aspect of the two most well covered characters..strike tiles. When the other characters (like goblin) get better covered and become more common he will be best in tier (seriously his purple is THE best ability in the game) but while Phoenix and oml are most common spidey is king of the tier.


Edit: take BSS into any fight even 3 on 1 and take a dd blue team up and watch as you easily beat pretty much any team taking very little damage....I fought against this is SIM this season and lost against it all 4 times.

Polares

OneLastGambit wrote:

morph3us wrote:

Honestly, OML isn't the strongest of the 5*s. Wait until you get trampled by a fully covered Green Goblin, or IM46 (or Banner or Bolt later). I have a nearly fully covered OML and Phoenix, and I think three times before I even think about taking on Green Goblin. It's just that there are fewer fully covered Goblins and IM46s around at the moment.

Completely agree here but with a slight change...black suit spidey is best in 5* tier not due to his abilities but due to the fact that he nullifies the most reliably threatening aspect of the two most well covered characters..strike tiles. When the other characters (like goblin) get better covered and become more common he will be best in tier (seriously his purple is THE best ability in the game) but while Phoenix and oml are most common spidey is king of the tier.


Edit: take BSS into any fight even 3 on 1 and take a dd blue team up and watch as you easily beat pretty much any team taking very little damage....I fought against this is SIM this season and lost against it all 4 times.

Spidey worries me A LOT, seriously A LOT. My 5 team (as 99% of people) is composed of OML+PH, any team with Spidey basically renders my team 'useless' (not really useless, but the fight will last much much longer, and gives a lot of time to the other team to gather AP).

Any player with luck that manages to max Spidey now, or has him already maxed, will probably be king in the near future (until more people maxes GG as you said). For me, this game has moved from MPQ:OML to MPQ:BSpidey... And I thought I was 'safe' when I champed both OML and PH

Bowgentle

Oh come on, how many of you who fear the Spider has actually played against one?

OML PHX will still be king and queen for months to come.

BSS drags out the match, but still will die. Unless you're hopping against a BSS team (and who does hop against 5* teams in the age of cupcakes?) time to beat doesn't matter.
From what I gather from KDN's posts, he uses him because he has the most match damage, not because his skillset is so awesome.

OneLastGambit

Bowgentle wrote:

Oh come on, how many of you who fear the Spider has actually played against one?

OML PHX will still be king and queen for months to come.

BSS drags out the match, but still will die. Unless you're hopping against a BSS team (and who does hop against 5* teams in the age of cupcakes?) time to beat doesn't matter.
From what I gather from KDN's posts, he uses him because he has the most match damage, not because his skillset is so awesome.

My opinion comes from only fighting spidey, mine isn't covered well enough to use him yet. If like you say, everyone hops against cupcakes then oml/Phoenix is no more useful than anyone else. You could use Steve and surfer against a cupcake team. The way to determine the best in tier is to look at which is least likely to lose, based on my experience I lose way way more against spidey than against oml or Phoenix. Both KDN and Jobob have both said spidey trumps oml/Phoenix. Its all opinion of course but for now spidey is best in tier for me.

Polares

Bowgentle wrote:

Oh come on, how many of you who fear the Spider has actually played against one?

OML PHX will still be king and queen for months to come.

BSS drags out the match, but still will die. Unless you're hopping against a BSS team (and who does hop against 5* teams in the age of cupcakes?) time to beat doesn't matter.
From what I gather from KDN's posts, he uses him because he has the most match damage, not because his skillset is so awesome.

Cupcakes, what cupcakes?!?!? Since I champed OML+PH I have fighted against one cupcake, just one! Maybe I am specially unlucky, but since my MMR adapted to a 5 player, cupcakes have disappeared.

Winning a PH+OML duo with another PH+OML is very easy, you just need to control black, and then a bit of red and purple and that's it. Easy win and the fight is quite fast. Spidey on the other hand renders my OML strikes and my PH strikes useless, so I just have PH cascades and her 9k red damage that I can just fire once to deal with the 43k life of Spidey before I can move to fighting OML or PH.

I played against a OML+Spidey team once and I almost lose. The fight also lasted much longer than against OML+PH. It looks like you don't realise how dependent those two are on strike tiles.

IM46 is also very easy to beat. GG is slightly more dangerous, but it can also be beaten with PH+OML by denying both black and purple (which are the colors I am already actively matching). Those two are easy to beat as long as they don't have Spidey on their team. If they have Spidey you need to deal with him first, so you leave a lot of time for GG and IM to gather AP and fire any of they very strong attacks.

And yes the meta is not going to change for now, this is not what I am saying, what I am saying is that while the meta is those two, any Spidey+whoever team has a big advantage. Oh, and in the near future, any IM46+Spidey (he is team IM) is going to be a pain in the **** for OML+PH teams.

SnowcaTT

They just need to do to OML what they did to poor OBW - no true healing. They need to remove it completely from the game.

Would he be really good if he healed in-match? Absolutely! It means virtual higher health points!

Would he be the only character that matters, since folks could run PVE and PVP basically never needing health packs? Nope, there might be a bit of diversity again!

FaustianDeal

I am not advocating this change but:

I think it would be a viable variant of the character if the red power - pre-flip was toned down, but that the black power became a passive ability requiring one of his teammates to be downed for the claws to come out. This change would make him much less popular on offense, since you would be forced to lose someone every match. On defense though - he would change dramatically as he would need to be eliminated first - otherwise you invite your doom by downing his allies (which seems very much in line with the theme of that character).

In the OML graphic I read I don't think Logan popped his claws at all until after Hawkeye was killed. But then he went on to single-handedly kill the entire hulk gang, and gut the Hulk from the inside after surviving beng eaten. Prior to hawkeye (and his family) being killed though, he had an almost annoying level of pacifism.

whitecat31

Polares wrote:

Cupcakes, what cupcakes?!?!? Since I champed OML+PH I have fighted against one cupcake, just one! Maybe I am specially unlucky, but since my MMR adapted to a 5 player, cupcakes have disappeared.
.

You may want to search the forums for cupcakes Polares. Simply put players will create an easy team for others to beat temporarily before shielding, that is a cupcake.