Is shuffling worse?

madwren

I'm aware this might be some weird perceptual bias, but since the release I seem to have a much higher incidence of card draws where I'm getting the same card multiple times. It'll be something like Card A, Card B, Card A on the opening draw, then Card B, Card C, Card A, Card A, Card B.

I'm just curious if I'm crazy or not. It's affecting how my decks play.

shteev

I still have no idea whether that thing about you having a 40 card deck with 10 copies of each card in it which gets added to whenever it runs dry is true or not.

The dev team told me that it was definitely why Sylvan Messenger stopped fetching copies of itself at 4, but then a little later when I asked why Woodland Bellower kept fetching copies of itself endlessly everyone looked at me like I was a madman asking where my feet were.

Morphis

There is some inconsistenti with fetch cards when it reaches end of the deck.

For the "unlucky" drawn, i suggested changing the deck size to 30, meningite a little bit less chances for stuff like what you described to happen.

People claimed it would make the game too predictable.
So I even provided some statical math % to show the difference it would make.
Mostly marginal for each "draw repeat" case but adding all up would be not that marginal

nexus13

It really feels like I've started with 3 of the same card more often than 1/247 which would be the odds with a 40 card deck and no replacement until the deck is exhausted. I haven't tracked it but it seems way more common than that.

shteev

It's notoriously difficult to get people to fix their RNGs. I remember when I was working in development on arcade machines, and we could see the 'random' patterns periodically repeating the same sequence on screen, and we kept calling the development team down and showing it to them, but they just didn't want to accept there might be an error somewhere.

Barrelrolla

Something's definitely wrong there. Many games I have 4 copies of one spell in my hand and it's annoying. And I think opening pack has the same broken RNG, because when you open a pack you get 3-4 copies of the same cards, sometimes you get duplicate rares and then you open another and it's the same, just different cards that are being drawn many times.

Pqmtg-

shteev wrote:

It's notoriously difficult to get people to fix their RNGs. I remember when I was working in development on arcade machines, and we could see the 'random' patterns periodically repeating the same sequence on screen, and we kept calling the development team down and showing it to them, but they just didn't want to accept there might be an error somewhere.

That's because they hear complaints about rng all the time from people who don't understand randomness. You get drowned in a sea of noise.

BLACK LOTUS

It has gotten worse. However I think this is another form of the game programming to screw the player. Several times in the last couple of days I have played and all I get is supports or spells and after 10 rounds I finally get a creature but then it's another 10 rounds before I pull another creature.... Now I find the odds of that nearly impossible especially when I have 1/2 of my deck setup as creatures. OK so not impossible but 3 in 10 games it has happened.... This is serious cheating on the AI ...D3 part. I seriously hope the FTC has a good look at their business practices ! Unfortunately I love this game but it's time to make the game "FAIR" for all players!

blacklotus

BLACK LOTUS wrote:

It has gotten worse. However I think this is another form of the game programming to screw the player. Several times in the last couple of days I have played and all I get is supports or spells and after 10 rounds I finally get a creature but then it's another 10 rounds before I pull another creature.... Now I find the odds of that nearly impossible especially when I have 1/2 of my deck setup as creatures. OK so not impossible but 3 in 10 games it has happened.... This is serious cheating on the AI ...D3 part. I seriously hope the FTC has a good look at their business practices ! Unfortunately I love this game but it's time to make the game "FAIR" for all players!

build a deck with more balanced ratio of creature/spell/support?

I used to stack a lot of mana producers n ability m-plus supports and spells and few creatures.

but as you said, pulling lots of these with no creature to support is pointless.

I suggest creature removal n Attack spells/support over mana n ability plus cards.

if u play the board right, u can come out on top in mana over the AI or make it waste its mana: 12mana scourge his 20mana Monster for example.

or 3 mana "scatter to the wind" it after it has got a massive cascade but still not enough to cast its giant spell/creature because it is short of 1 mana. lol

BLACK LOTUS

I have built more balanced decks .... It really doesn't matter.... This game can hand you your a** if it wants ..... I have played for sometime now. I can understand it happening once in a while, but when it happens 2 out of 5 games .... It's fixed especially when your opponent gets every card to counter every move ..... And I emphasize EVERY move. I have played several matches where the opponent plays only 3 to 4 cards and can fill all 5 cards with mana in one move ... Play all 5 of those cards in one round and have 5 new cards (basically the same 3 to 4 cards) the very next round and repeat the process 2 to 4 rounds in a row .... The odds of this happening in real life has got to be astronomical and I have had this happen to me 3 to 4 games in a row. Plain and simple this game is rigged! My guess is the more $$$ you spend the less things like this happen!

Pqmtg-

BLACK LOTUS wrote:

I have built more balanced decks .... It really doesn't matter.... This game can hand you your a** if it wants ..... I have played for sometime now. I can understand it happening once in a while, but when it happens 2 out of 5 games .... It's fixed especially when your opponent gets every card to counter every move ..... And I emphasize EVERY move. I have played several matches where the opponent plays only 3 to 4 cards and can fill all 5 cards with mana in one move ... Play all 5 of those cards in one round and have 5 new cards (basically the same 3 to 4 cards) the very next round and repeat the process 2 to 4 rounds in a row ....

Let me guess. You're ranting about getting schooled by Kiora.

Coconut99

I've been wondering this as well. I've definitely had a majority of really bad shuffles since SOI dropped...multiple games in a row where I'd not draw a creature (out of 3-4 in my deck) for like 10 cards/turns or more, things like that.

blacklotus

Pqmtg- wrote:

BLACK LOTUS wrote:

I have built more balanced decks .... It really doesn't matter.... This game can hand you your a** if it wants ..... I have played for sometime now. I can understand it happening once in a while, but when it happens 2 out of 5 games .... It's fixed especially when your opponent gets every card to counter every move ..... And I emphasize EVERY move. I have played several matches where the opponent plays only 3 to 4 cards and can fill all 5 cards with mana in one move ... Play all 5 of those cards in one round and have 5 new cards (basically the same 3 to 4 cards) the very next round and repeat the process 2 to 4 rounds in a row ....

Let me guess. You're ranting about getting schooled by Kiora.

Kiora is about the only AI pw that gives me some challenge.

actually she is easy to control for my Liliana.
I am more afraid of Chandra. one lucky cascade and she will toss a 50 pt fireball in Enrage mode.

or worse, hang the game n makes you lose by quitting.

BLACK LOTUS

Pqmtg- wrote:

BLACK LOTUS wrote:

I have built more balanced decks .... It really doesn't matter.... This game can hand you your a** if it wants ..... I have played for sometime now. I can understand it happening once in a while, but when it happens 2 out of 5 games .... It's fixed especially when your opponent gets every card to counter every move ..... And I emphasize EVERY move. I have played several matches where the opponent plays only 3 to 4 cards and can fill all 5 cards with mana in one move ... Play all 5 of those cards in one round and have 5 new cards (basically the same 3 to 4 cards) the very next round and repeat the process 2 to 4 rounds in a row ....

Let me guess. You're ranting about getting schooled by Kiora.

No I have had no problem beating any Plainswalker.... Look if this game gives you 10 cards in a 40 card deck I should see more than half of those cards in a match. But the game is stacked in the "AI's" favor. Now I can understand that in story mode but when you're playing in the PVP events or quick matches it should be about the deck and how you play your cards. But when the game gives you a massive handicap by dealing 3 or 4 cards of the same card right off the bat, and seeing the same 3 or 4 cards multiple times in a match, limiting your color of gems on the board throughout the game, placing your supports in vulnerable locations, and then giving the "AI" massive bonuses with collosal chain matches, giving your opponent the ability to play every card in its arsenal multiple times in a match, perfect support placement, and perfect counter moves for every move you make. Well I call bulls***! I have had several matches in a row where this has been the case and against every Plainswalker. Look I really do like this game but I am seriously considering uninstalling it.

Pqmtg-

BLACK LOTUS wrote:

Pqmtg- wrote:

BLACK LOTUS wrote:

I have built more balanced decks .... It really doesn't matter.... This game can hand you your a** if it wants ..... I have played for sometime now. I can understand it happening once in a while, but when it happens 2 out of 5 games .... It's fixed especially when your opponent gets every card to counter every move ..... And I emphasize EVERY move. I have played several matches where the opponent plays only 3 to 4 cards and can fill all 5 cards with mana in one move ... Play all 5 of those cards in one round and have 5 new cards (basically the same 3 to 4 cards) the very next round and repeat the process 2 to 4 rounds in a row ....

Let me guess. You're ranting about getting schooled by Kiora.

No I have had no problem beating any Plainswalker.... Look if this game gives you 10 cards in a 40 card deck I should see more than half of those cards in a match. But the game is stacked in the "AI's" favor. Now I can understand that in story mode but when you're playing in the PVP events or quick matches it should be about the deck and how you play your cards. But when the game gives you a massive handicap by dealing 3 or 4 cards of the same card right off the bat, and seeing the same 3 or 4 cards multiple times in a match, limiting your color of gems on the board throughout the game, placing your supports in vulnerable locations, and then giving the "AI" massive bonuses with collosal chain matches, giving your opponent the ability to play every card in its arsenal multiple times in a match, perfect support placement, and perfect counter moves for every move you make. Well I call bulls***! I have had several matches in a row where this has been the case and against every Plainswalker. Look I really do like this game but I am seriously considering uninstalling it.

You must be forgetting the equally numerous times you win the game where the opponent barely manages to get a creature out, and other various instances where the AI gets screwed while you get an easy ride. Or that occasional unintentional cascade you start yourself. That happens too right?


I play a lot of card games, and find there to be no significant screwing around with the probabilities here. Sometimes you just get a bad draw, and gotta play the hand you're dealt.


I can't count the number of times I've opened my starting hand in mtg to find myself with no lands, or 5-6 lands. It happens, and more often than you'll think. The point of good deck building is to be able to handle these swings.


I counter propose to you that if the game were fixed, it would happen every game, not just 40% of the time.

Plastic

Regarding bad deck shuffling. If your win ratio is less than 50% then yeah there might be something going on (assuming you aren't a new player).

BLACK LOTUS

Pqmtg- wrote:

BLACK LOTUS wrote:

Pqmtg- wrote:

BLACK LOTUS wrote:

I have built more balanced decks .... It really doesn't matter.... This game can hand you your a** if it wants ..... I have played for sometime now. I can understand it happening once in a while, but when it happens 2 out of 5 games .... It's fixed especially when your opponent gets every card to counter every move ..... And I emphasize EVERY move. I have played several matches where the opponent plays only 3 to 4 cards and can fill all 5 cards with mana in one move ... Play all 5 of those cards in one round and have 5 new cards (basically the same 3 to 4 cards) the very next round and repeat the process 2 to 4 rounds in a row ....

Let me guess. You're ranting about getting schooled by Kiora.

No I have had no problem beating any Plainswalker.... Look if this game gives you 10 cards in a 40 card deck I should see more than half of those cards in a match. But the game is stacked in the "AI's" favor. Now I can understand that in story mode but when you're playing in the PVP events or quick matches it should be about the deck and how you play your cards. But when the game gives you a massive handicap by dealing 3 or 4 cards of the same card right off the bat, and seeing the same 3 or 4 cards multiple times in a match, limiting your color of gems on the board throughout the game, placing your supports in vulnerable locations, and then giving the "AI" massive bonuses with collosal chain matches, giving your opponent the ability to play every card in its arsenal multiple times in a match, perfect support placement, and perfect counter moves for every move you make. Well I call bulls***! I have had several matches in a row where this has been the case and against every Plainswalker. Look I really do like this game but I am seriously considering uninstalling it.

You must be forgetting the equally numerous times you win the game where the opponent barely manages to get a creature out, and other various instances where the AI gets screwed while you get an easy ride. Or that occasional unintentional cascade you start yourself. That happens too right?


I play a lot of card games, and find there to be no significant screwing around with the probabilities here. Sometimes you just get a bad draw, and gotta play the hand you're dealt.


I can't count the number of times I've opened my starting hand in mtg to find myself with no lands, or 5-6 lands. It happens, and more often than you'll think. The point of good deck building is to be able to handle these swings.


I counter propose to you that if the game were fixed, it would happen every game, not just 40% of the time.

No I'm not saying I don't win alot but the occasional landslide win where the "AI" barely gets a card out is not the same. Many matches are relatively fair matches where both players get cards out, but even in those matches the "AI" gets at least 1 or 2 collosal chain cascades of 50+ mana. Where my unintended cascade is maybe 30 mana. The games where I do win by a landslide, and am lucky enough to get a collosal cascade of mana and get the cards out in perfect order, are like 1 in 30 matches.

I counter propose that in the opening hand in MTG you don't have 3 of the same card (not counting lands) and draw the same card in 2 of the next 6 draws.

And 40% of the time is quite a bit. And if the game isn't rigged can you tell me why when I use Koth the game handicaps me by limiting red gems but when my opponent is Koth it doesn't limit the red gems and when I play a support it is placed where it can be lost in the next 1 to 2 turns by gem matches, and when my opponent places a support it is almost impossible to destroy by gem matches.

And just to add the probability of pulling 3 of the same cards in a row if there are 4 of the same card in a 40 card deck is 1 in 4940. Now It happens more often than that in this game.

Pqmtg-

I've never felt **** with the gems and supports like you mention, and I play a lot of koth. The AI certainly has its fair share of bad support placements that get destroyed in short order, and I also occasionally get my supports in a corner.

Like I said, if it were rigged, you would not just see this a portion of the time. You ran bad. It happens.

buffbeardo

No, just rng messing with your head.