Shadows over innstrad cards here

madwren

Coconut99 wrote:

Barrelrolla wrote:

Coconut99 wrote:

Bit surprised at the lack of Ally cards, though. That mechanic basically just came and went with BFZ/Oath, and if future releases don't include any, it'll be hard for latecomers to make use of it as those cards get lost in the greater depth of inventory.

Well, that's pretty typical in Magic. Look at Devoid and Ingest for example. Many new mechanics are specific for the set. For example Madness and Delirium will not be in the next set and I highly doubt we'll be seeing Transform too. Allies were kinda specific for the BfZ set.

Didn't know how limited mechanics were these days. I quit paper magic back in like, 2000, and back then at least, most (not all, granted, but most) mechanics would last at least a couple sets...well, other than Slivers (off the top of my head).

There are "evergreen" mechanics which occasionally get put into regular usage, but a lot of them are block-specific. Ally, however, isn't a mechanic, it's a tribal designation. Tribes tend to wax and wane. For example, SOI and EM are specifically about zombies, vampires, werewolves, humans. Not so much allies, which was the representation of the colors getting together to defend Zendikar.

Rootbreaker

Coconut99 wrote:

Barrelrolla wrote:

Coconut99 wrote:

Bit surprised at the lack of Ally cards, though. That mechanic basically just came and went with BFZ/Oath, and if future releases don't include any, it'll be hard for latecomers to make use of it as those cards get lost in the greater depth of inventory.

Well, that's pretty typical in Magic. Look at Devoid and Ingest for example. Many new mechanics are specific for the set. For example Madness and Delirium will not be in the next set and I highly doubt we'll be seeing Transform too. Allies were kinda specific for the BfZ set.

Didn't know how limited mechanics were these days. I quit paper magic back in like, 2000, and back then at least, most (not all, granted, but most) mechanics would last at least a couple sets...well, other than Slivers (off the top of my head).

They lasted 3 sets until very recently. Now they last two.

They switched to two set blocks after magic origins - there won't be any more core sets.

Coconut99

Yeah, I get that, and for paper magic, it makes perfect sense. Guess it just doesn't make as much sense to me here as it does there...two sets from now, when there's twice as many cards, I'm going to look at GideonZ and think, "Eh, why spend the crystal," because the odds of getting new/missing Ally cards has diminished so much (and even more so for newer players pulling from that larger card pool). While I don't buy crystal, for someone that does, that could mean not paying $ for crystal to buy GideonZ and/or runes to level him.

madwren

Coconut99 wrote:

Yeah, I get that, and for paper magic, it makes perfect sense. Guess it just doesn't make as much sense to me here as it does there...two sets from now, when there's twice as many cards, I'm going to look at GideonZ and think, "Eh, why spend the crystal," because the odds of getting new/missing Ally cards has diminished so much (and even more so for newer players pulling from that larger card pool). While I don't buy crystal, for someone that does, that could mean not paying $ for crystal to buy GideonZ and/or runes to level him.

Yeah, but they're based on existing cards whose likeness they're licensing. Wizards may let them have leeway with the mechanics, but the name, artwork, and basic identifiers (card name, tribal type, spell type, etc.) remain the same, or within specific guidelines (artifact/enchantment = support, instant/sorcery = spell).

Rootbreaker

madwren wrote:

Coconut99 wrote:

Yeah, I get that, and for paper magic, it makes perfect sense. Guess it just doesn't make as much sense to me here as it does there...two sets from now, when there's twice as many cards, I'm going to look at GideonZ and think, "Eh, why spend the crystal," because the odds of getting new/missing Ally cards has diminished so much (and even more so for newer players pulling from that larger card pool). While I don't buy crystal, for someone that does, that could mean not paying $ for crystal to buy GideonZ and/or runes to level him.

Yeah, but they're based on existing cards whose likeness they're licensing. Wizards may let them have leeway with the mechanics, but the name, artwork, and basic identifiers (card name, tribal type, spell type, etc.) remain the same, or within specific guidelines (artifact/enchantment = support, instant/sorcery = spell).

They usually make enchantments, lands and artifacts into supports and instants and sorceries into spells, but not always. See Gideon's Reproach. They clearly have the freedom to choose a card's type.

madwren

Rootbreaker wrote:

madwren wrote:

Coconut99 wrote:

Yeah, I get that, and for paper magic, it makes perfect sense. Guess it just doesn't make as much sense to me here as it does there...two sets from now, when there's twice as many cards, I'm going to look at GideonZ and think, "Eh, why spend the crystal," because the odds of getting new/missing Ally cards has diminished so much (and even more so for newer players pulling from that larger card pool). While I don't buy crystal, for someone that does, that could mean not paying $ for crystal to buy GideonZ and/or runes to level him.

Yeah, but they're based on existing cards whose likeness they're licensing. Wizards may let them have leeway with the mechanics, but the name, artwork, and basic identifiers (card name, tribal type, spell type, etc.) remain the same, or within specific guidelines (artifact/enchantment = support, instant/sorcery = spell).

They usually make enchantments, lands and artifacts into supports and instants and sorceries into spells, but not always. See Gideon's Reproach. They clearly have the freedom to choose a card's type.

They also clearly have rules they have to follow. What's so terrible about that? Not sure what the disconnect is here. They're not going to spontaneously make a zombie into an ally, or a werewolf into a fairy.

Rootbreaker

They have design rules that only make sense to follow, but I think those are probably internal rather than passed down from WotC.

Barrelrolla

Is it possible that the list doesn't include all cards?
Maybe not showing exclusive cards, because I'm noticing the absence of Geier Reach Bandit/Vidin-Pack Alpha and I really like that card.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=409912

Jazzpha

Barrelrolla wrote:

Is it possible that the list doesn't include all cards?
Maybe not showing exclusive cards, because I'm noticing the absence of Geier Reach Bandit/Vidin-Pack Alpha and I really like that card.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=409912

They might have left out Exclusives, maybe? I was looking forward to seeing how they might use Traverse the Ulvenwald to give Green some Black-style graveyard manipulation, but that one's also missing:

http://shop.tcgplayer.com/magic/shadows ... -ulvenwald

Nitymp

If you click on the card and turn it into just text, it will tell you if it is exclusive as it will say 'not available in booster packs'.

Someone on the facebook group counted 9 exclusive cards from the list

Meto5000

All Shadows Over Innistrad cards have been added to Decktester!

Rootbreaker

Meto5000 wrote:

All Shadows Over Innistrad cards have been added to Decktester!

Are you going to have another shield values post for SOI?

Meto5000

Rootbreaker wrote:

Meto5000 wrote:

All Shadows Over Innistrad cards have been added to Decktester!

Are you going to have another shield values post for SOI?

Yep. Figured I'd wait to post that until the cards are officially live though

knthrak

Meto5000 wrote:

All Shadows Over Innistrad cards have been added to Decktester!

One thing that would be real nice would be to (somehow) connect the front side and back side of the transform cards.

Mainloop25

Engulf the Shore
Deck: Shadows Over Innistrad
Type: Spell
Rarity: Mythic

Each creature your opponent controls on the battlefield are Returned to their owner’s Library.

That is gonna make someone tear their hair out if played at the right time...

zarrick13

madwren wrote:

Coconut99 wrote:

Yeah, I get that, and for paper magic, it makes perfect sense. Guess it just doesn't make as much sense to me here as it does there...two sets from now, when there's twice as many cards, I'm going to look at GideonZ and think, "Eh, why spend the crystal," because the odds of getting new/missing Ally cards has diminished so much (and even more so for newer players pulling from that larger card pool). While I don't buy crystal, for someone that does, that could mean not paying $ for crystal to buy GideonZ and/or runes to level him.

Yeah, but they're based on existing cards whose likeness they're licensing. Wizards may let them have leeway with the mechanics, but the name, artwork, and basic identifiers (card name, tribal type, spell type, etc.) remain the same, or within specific guidelines (artifact/enchantment = support, instant/sorcery = spell).

This. Also:

The way that they're doing cards at the moment, only the free boosters have everything mixed in. Like a great big grab bag full of mostly commons and a few rare gems. All the 'ally' cards are going to be pretty much forever lurking in the Zendikar pool, so you can try to get them any time. What's true about new players is they may not know that if they want Ally cards to go with GideonZ they will need to get a few of those Zendikar boosters to find them. Your odds of finding a new/missing Ally card in those boosters is the same now as it will be any other point in the future until they take this block down altogether.

I'll be curious to see how they handle card draws and events once we're far enough in that old cards are legit old. Will we end up with different tiers of card block events like the paper version? Will the pool just keep getting bigger until there's nothing but mythic-decks spanning ten+ sets of cards? We'll have to find out after Eldritch Moon, won't we?

fox1342

Curious about the cross deck colours - presumably paving the way for more PW.

Eg Ulvenwald mysteries is Green but produces White tokens. Doesn't make much odds yet as once cast there's no colour differentiation. But I'm sure it's coming somewhere.

(eg destroy all white permanent)