New character release with the new PvE system

SnowcaTT

Well, considering I hadn't gotten a 4* from the old system (outside of last-second slice jumping) in almost two years and I hit nearly T50 in this one while starting as soon as the slice opened and never clearing any sub completely....in fact, I was traveling and had no internet to push the final sub after starting it earlier.

I really like it! If I was pushing for placement (trying to get more than one cover) I wouldn't like it at all. But then...that's not a reason to remove this new system, that's a reason to go all the way and put all placement rewards on a progression scale instead. I might have hit 2 of the 3 covers on that scale (or I might have tried to push a bit harder!)

The worst thing about this one is that I had a pretty good score and probably could have merc'd out for a 2nd cover - but it ended the same time as PVP. No PVP/PVE endings at nearly the same time please!

Stax the Foyer

Didn't play, won't play PvE in the future under this format.

Dealing with new scaling in veteran brackets for the same unscaled node rewards, so that I can use a 4* I'll likely never use again unless forced to, is not as appealing as the developers might think it is.

vinnygecko

It ended up being much better for me, I never had enough time to keep up with the 8 hour refreshes to be remotely competitive or even get the max progression. I'm lucky if I hit top 500 in PVE normally.

This time I ended up top 50 (very close to top 20) which is the best I've done in ages, probably the best I've ever done for a character release. Progression was fairly easy as well, I got the last reward while still in the 2nd sub.

I do have to agree with others on the scaling. I wiped on several wave nodes (particularly the one in the last sub that finished with Mystique), which hasn't happened in a long time. I also ended up having to use super whales on my last 2 clears of the IW essential (JG, Cyc & PX).

auralgami

Polares wrote:

MOVE PvE to PROGRESSION ONLY ASAP !!!

This. Please. This.

Last slice. I placed top 5 in Peggy. I placed just outside top 50 in this. It felt like I did more work on this.

The leaders in my slice had 20000 more points than I did. That means, even though I started out hoping for top 10, it was all but impossible unless I did completely optimal clears (hard in my slice, as it is late) or spent all weekend on it.

It's just not worth it. I don't know if I want to put out this kind of effort for 1 cover of a 4* character that will languish in my roster. Glad I have it, since Wasp is required in The Hunt, and I could really use those XForce covers, but how realistic is that? And, for The Hunt, I have to place top 10 or there's no 4* cover at all.

It's back to a gamble, this one involving how much time and drudgery I'm willing to sink in. Already, on day 1, it's tiresome to clear the same nodes multiple times, using the same folks because how else am I going to do multiple clears quickly?

MrCroaker64

I ended up in the mid-sixties somewhere. I don't believe that I spent any more time in the game than I did in the old format. The scaling was difficult for me, but not unbearable. However that might just be that my roster puts me into a sweet spot. Considering that this is the best finish I have had in months, and I truly was able to play at my own convenience, I would have to give the new system a thumbs up.

MarvelMan

vinnygecko wrote:

It ended up being much better for me, I never had enough time to keep up with the 8 hour refreshes to be remotely competitive or even get the max progression.

This doesnt make sense.....you didnt have the "time" before but you did for a PVE that required more of it?

It sounds like you put in more time than you have in the past....and got better rewards for it.

The bottom line is that it worked better for your schedule to put in larger chunks vs small amounts spaced at 8 hrs.

(EDIT: which is totally reasonable, just dont equate that with the format changes)

BigBZ32

I pretty much played for green checks like I always did in the old system and placed 15 in a vet bracket. Placement pretty much the same. So, for me it's no different. I just played a lot early in sub rather than late in sub.

vinnygecko

MarvelMan wrote:

vinnygecko wrote:

It ended up being much better for me, I never had enough time to keep up with the 8 hour refreshes to be remotely competitive or even get the max progression.

This doesnt make sense.....you didnt have the "time" before but you did for a PVE that required more of it?

It sounds like you put in more time than you have in the past....and got better rewards for it.

The bottom line is that it worked better for your schedule to put in larger chunks vs small amounts spaced at 8 hrs.

(EDIT: which is totally reasonable, just dont equate that with the format changes)

I should have phrased it better... I don't have time during normal work hours to fit the 8 hour refreshes into my schedule. I usually just have time when I first wake up or when I come home from work.

I have previously put the same amount of time with the old format, just at my schedule, and never did that well enough to place very high. So because of that I stopped putting in a lot of effort where I wasn't going to make anything better than top 150, and often not close to the progression rewards (they were a bit lower this time than in the previous format). Since this past event did work with my schedule, and I could see I was keeping up, I kept going and put the time in when I could.

Vhailorx

As with the new system in general, there is no single answer. Demi has done a good job of slicing up perceived benefit and disadvantage so the player base is divided.

It's clear that this new system has a big effect on competitive play for placement, top 10 now requires a very long single grind sessions (hard on the healthpacks and the thumbs) as well as 1 extra clear. Some people prefer this change, some dislike it. I think it's worse.

Casual players seem to think that they are doing better. I w out of argue that most prog reward advantages are basically the result of lower prog rewards (perhaps demi greasing the skids for the new system), rather than any real advantage from the new scoring system.

In the long run, I think all players benefit from fixed loot tables, since we can all choose what reward levels makes sense for us.

So it's very much a mixed bag, depending on your life schedule and playtime.

All in all, between the new system and the old the system, I choose the Gauntlet (with cp added to the prog rewards), or Civil War rewards structures!

ZootSax

The new system was worse for me, personally. Both the new and the old have an optimal, fixed schedule of play where the more you deviate the worse you'll do. Because I play randomly throughout the day rather than in predictable, large chunks of time, the 8hr timer worked against me less than the 4 quick clears plus 24hr timer. Because player involvement appears to be up, I assume the new system is here to stay and it's all a moot point.

From here on out I'll go progression-only and probably enjoy the new system a whole lot more. I really like the lower progression target and the predictable node awards in the new system, but that's unrelated to the new system with regards to the new character release. As long as you ignore placement and the notion of it actually enabling you to "play on your own time', it's not a bad system as far as MPQ goes...

ViralCore

A good compromise would be to drop the 70 iso and crit boosts rewards so that we only need to clear 5-6 times in total, instead of 8. That saves anywhere from 45m - 1h at the beginning/end of each sub and scaling doesn't get so high. My biggest gripe is the time commitment. Anybody with loved ones must find this brutal.

SnowcaTT

mohio wrote:

Polares wrote:

So going forward for me, I dont care about placement anymore, I will play as I used to, or whenever I feel up to it. I will do the 6 clears to get all the iso and that's it. If I manage to be top100 cool, if not who cares.

I reached this conclusion a while ago, as new release characters, while interesting, don't get covered quickly (thanks RNG!), don't get leveled past the point they can win their DDQ (cause who has the iso?), and aren't relevant past the next PvE/release PvP (because the game is all about 5* now).

Totally agree with this. I stopped trying to compete in PVE a loooong time ago, but when 5*'s and then CP came around I felt quite justified in that decision. Can't get covers fast enough to make the 4*'s matter, only will need them as a poor third wheel in PVE essentials (if you can find ISO to level them) or DDQ. CP/5*'s are all that matter, no reason to chase the 4*'s.

Colognoisseur

t1 slice 4 88K+points

While I second the OP's call for all progression award PvE I found this version of PvE to be roughly the same.

The major difference is you play in big blocks of time in this version if you are vying for placement. Otherwise it achieves the play when you want for the current progression awards.

After seeing my scaling in the previous tests I thought making t10 would be more difficult in this format. It turns out I might be wrong about that. At least for Hearts of Darkness. With two borderline impossible nodes in the IW essential (PX/JG/Cyke) and The Rider Awakens wave node (3 waves of 3X475 characters) it made for more separation than I saw in one which is less demanding like Meet Rocket and Groot. That one was one of the first test cases and the relative ease of that as compared to HoD was why I thought t10 was out of my reach. I think when it is Heroics, Venom Bomb, Hearts of Darkness, and Simulator the scaling will be to the advantage of the bigger roster. When it is more direct Iso-8 Brotherhood, Meet Rocket & Groot, Unstable Iso-8 the scaling will be large enough for the bigger rosters that the smaller ones will finish faster.

It will take more events to know for sure but at least for right now it feels the same.

revskip

Much better for me. I ended at 18 which is the highest I have ever placed in a new release. Outside of the initial 4 clears which I did every day in one sitting at the beginning of the sub I played the other clears spaced out throughout the day.

Even skipped several of the final wave nodes and 4 of the clears on the IW node because they were crushing my roster and ran out of healthpacks and three of the clears on node 7 in the first sub because I just didn't feel like tangoing with Hood and his goons. For my playstyle the new system is a huge improvement and like I said before outside of the initial grind is much more relaxed in terms of timers.

Calnexin

Placement was worse for me. I did 4 clears of every node I could (that darn X-men combo stomped me after my 3rd clear), maxed out the trivials and loaner, with one or two extra on the essentials. It's about the same amount of effort I used to put in under the old system, which usually got me somewhere around 50.

This time... 186.

For a guy who doesn't have any more free time to devote to this game than I currently do (and I don't even have that much, usually), this format leaves me out of T100 consideration entirely.

Progression was better. I finished with plenty of time to spare, and I really like knowing where the CP is. If I know I don't have the time to reach max I can at least farm them reliably.

acescracked

I'm confused by the point that this new system is bad because those that complain about it are getting worse placement now. Those top 100, 50, 10 spots are still being given out. Someone is getting those top spots and maybe that's because this new system is better for them. Placements before and after don't determine which one is better.

Not having to set an alarm for 8 hour interval clears is better. Having to play for longer periods at sub flip does stink. I personally haven't decided which is worse. To be honest leaning towards 8hr intervals worse.

I think the scaling changes are better actually. Helps define placements better. If you can't handle it then be happy with t100.

I always play s1 and old system for new character pve about 75% of the time t2/t10. I finished HoD in 4th.

Btw...keep pve placements not everyone wants progression only

simonsez

acescracked wrote:

I'm confused by the point that this new system is bad because those that complain about it are getting worse placement now. Those top 100, 50, 10 spots are still being given out. Someone is getting those top spots and maybe that's because this new system is better for them. Placements before and after don't determine which one is better.

Sure it can.. if all those who are expending the same amount of effort are ranking worse, the conclusion would be that the new format requires a greater time commitment to achieve a similar ranking vs the old system. That's why someone would say it's worse based on where they rank.

Spudgutter

simonsez wrote:

carrion pigeons wrote:

I'm sure you all can come up with arguments that make good sense from a design perspective for why a less popular design is better

The "less popular design" is currently leading this poll 59% vs. 22%, so stop pushing this fiction of yours.

And you've already heard the argument, but you choose to ignore it. Optimal play that requires 5 consecutive hours of gameplay disqualifies the new format from being a "better" design.

I have to disagree, I think he is on to something. What I think is being ignored is mentioned by someone on the next page, that the top 20, 10, etc. rewards are still being given out, and judging by most other comments and threads, these are harder to get. That means competition is up, and that more people are playing (presumably).

If it is taking longer, or is harder to place top 20, it just means that there are 20 other people willing to play longer to get that reward, right?

Also, in my opinion, both systems are garbage. It doesn't really matter how much time you put in. I would argue that placement is 100% dependant on the slice you get put in. We use the terms "vet" and "noob" to describe brackets, but we are still trying to categorize 1000 people by one label. It all comes down to entirely too much outside communication (and a little luck) to get in a good slice at a good time, in order to increase your chances of a good outcome. I think we are arguing amongst ourselves about the wrong thing.

Esheris

I love the new play-when-you-want events because I can get the 25 CP easily, but it did make getting the new 4* covers a pain. I would much prefer progression only rewards on the event side.

Have the Devs said anything about why they don't want to change the events to progression only rewards? Seems like a large amount of players would like to see this as well.

whitecat31

SnowcaTT wrote:

If I was pushing for placement (trying to get more than one cover) I wouldn't like it at all. But then...that's not a reason to remove this new system,

I respectfully disagree.
If the integrity of a game for awarding the top prizes is in question, than yes there is an issue.
People with high level rosters are getting punished by the scaling. There is also more intense grinding that needs to be done to make the top 10, than before.

The major factor involved to place in the top 10 is speed. The scaling is hurting the speed to grind out the nodes.
Each stage of the PVE event, to get maximum points you need to sweep all the nodes 4 times, as quickly as possible and as soon as they are available. This way you get to the timer countdown that is regenerating the nodes before other people.
You do this so when you do hit the nodes again, you get the most possible points the next time the nodes are hit.

Then you need to be able to sweep all the nodes 4 more times as close as possible to the ending time.
Then of course right after the ending, you need to sweep all of the nodes 4 times as quickly as possible, for the newer stage of the event. So you really don't get much rest.

If somebody who is punished by scaling, has to take 2 to 3 hours to do the 4 sweeps is competing against somebody who can do it in in 1.5 hours because of the scaling difference, they will lose the point differential.