Useless LT draws are so painful!

DrDoMe

Yay, I have enough CP to buy a token... Another IW. Gr.
Yay, I have enough CP to buy a token... Oh good, my ninth Dive Bomb when FalCap is 2/2/5!
Yay, I have enough CP to buy a token... Another IW?!?!?

Legendary tokens should be fun. Generally they are, but because they're so rare, when you get a bad draw, it's painful. Lately I've been having a pretty long string of bad luck, so it's downright infuriating.

Please fix this. Here are some ideas, I invite more.
If you aren't going to fix trash-teir 4*s, admit failure and take them out of the LT loot tables. IW, Chulk, any others?

Raise the sell value of unusable 4* covers (10k iso, 15 CP, 500 HP all seem reasonable)

Allow bad cover draws to be re-rolled for a cost.

Maybe extra covers for non-champed heroes could give them 10 or so levels.


I get that randomness is part of the deal, and streaks are part of that, but it gets seriously unpleasant when you open 10 LTs and 4 of them are garbage.

Pogo

DrDoMe wrote:

Raise the sell value of unusable 4* covers (10k iso, 15 CP, 500 HP all seem reasonable)

First thing to point out here is that there's no such thing as an unusable cover. You can still slot a duplicate, even if it's ill-advised.

By extension, you can't really ask for different sell values based on how convenient the draw was.

That said, I definitely agree that 4 & 5 -star covers need vastly improved sell values.

I think your ISO value is in the right neighborhood (10K for 4-star, at least double that for a 5-star), but that much CP and/or HP is a lot to ask for. I've previously pitched 2CP for a 4-star and 5CP for a 5-star. It sounds a little low in retrospect, but it seems like overkill to be able to sell two 4-star covers and immediately have more than enough extra CP for another Legendary pull or enough HP for another roster slot. I wouldn't expect the HP sell value to go past 25-50 for a 4-star and 100-200 for a 5-star.

Certainly not saying I would turn down 15CP or 500HP if it was offered to me, though.

simonsez

Pogo wrote:

First thing to point out here is that there's no such thing as an unusable cover. You can still slot a duplicate, even if it's ill-advised.

Would you prefer "unhelpful"?

My fix: Take the rng-based progression idea and shove it as far up <remainder deleted so a mod doesn't yell at me>

Pogo

I definitely get it, and it would probably be easy enough to recognize if a given power was "full". The reason I bring up dupes is because that is the likely rationale the devs would give. Even if slotting a duplicate is even less helpful, it still eats a roster slot which might indirectly eat HP which might indirectly eat some of your real money.

After all, part of what they do is try to make up reasons for players to be excited about downgrades and impractical play.

OneLastGambit

I'm a proponent of the "re-roll" idea. Its obvious we will never rid ourselves of the shackles of rng so we should at least be able to re roll for small price (25hp?)

Rng stays intact but we at least have the tiniest measure of control

DrDoMe

Just got my eighth "Mind Over Matter".

Dupes aren't a real solution. Selling a useless cover for half its cost (10 CP) is a totally normal game economy value. Literally thousands of games let you sell something for half its cost. When CP area as dear as they are, I don't think that number is unreasonable.

Games like this area a textbook case of manufactured scarcity and every time this **** happens, it makes me want to walk away. No way I'm renewing VIP when the LTs I buy have good odds of being worthless.

Gmafb123

Just received my 6th "Countdown for What" for my 5/0/5 DP (a month after receiving a 6th "Out of Bullets"), a week and a half after receiving my 7th "Dive-bomb" for my 0/2/5 CapFal.
HP for a re-roll, a reasonable sell back rate as compared to the rarity of a 4*, one of the other half dozen "fixes" that have been offered....... Just do something, this issue is an unnecessary point of frustration for a game, which lately has had a really good track record for making gameplay and content changes in the right direction

ErikPeter

DrDoMe wrote:

Selling a useless cover for half its cost (10 CP) is a totally normal game economy value. Literally thousands of games let you sell something for half its cost. When CP area as dear as they are, I don't think that number is unreasonable.

Yesssss.

Hyposphere6234

Why should LT draws be any different to any other draws? I'm on day 574 and still trying to champion half of my 3*s, I've already had to sell a Kingpin cover from an LT token which was from a colour already maxed out, the next 4* daily is an Elektra cover I already have maxed out. Why should LT's be different to recieving the nth cover of Moonstone that you don't need with lower level draws? You get a guaranteed 4*\5* cover, which is a lot more than a "See those few 4*s, pay some money and we'll see. That brand new 4* Hahahahahahaha... I mean good luck. We'll throw in a 3* here or there if you're lucky. All those 2*s, we've already booked a room, you're staying with Hawkeye."

LT tokens are unfair? You've been playing this long enough to know that most of the tokens you get won't go the way you want them too!

sambrookjm

The same problem exists for the 3-star Champion rewards as well. I just got a 2-star Bullseye cover, which gave me a 3-star Bullseye cover. That level got my 3-star Bullseye up to Level 183, so my reward was a Yellow Kingpin cover. My Kingpin currently sits at 2/3/5. I've already had to sell off another yellow that I pulled from (bringing this rant back on topic) a Legendary Token. Same thing happened with the 3-star Black Widow, who gave me my 12th (!!!!!!!) Nick Fury Demolition cover as a reward.

willyswim

ErikPeter wrote:

DrDoMe wrote:

Selling a useless cover for half its cost (10 CP) is a totally normal game economy value. Literally thousands of games let you sell something for half its cost. When CP area as dear as they are, I don't think that number is unreasonable.

Yesssss.

Or let me transfer it to another color of the same character for half the coast. Oh I got a 6th green cover for my 2/5/5 teen Jean, let me make that a purple for 10 cp.

FaustianDeal

Some features I would love to see added:
* Change the cover of 1 cover
* Re-roll 1 draw
* Break apart 1 character into covers that appear in inventory

Any of these seem like a viable thing to add to the purchase of VIP. Buy VIP and you can split (do one of those above things, or do each one, but only 1 time per VIP window).

I would also really enjoy seeing these options get added as something you gain access to at particular SHIELD Ranks or Clearance Levels.

Once these options exist, then it becomes possible to add them to the normal flow of the game. You could create a currency that is only useful for these types of actions - and then VIP status can simply award you enough of this currency to perform the stated action - or players could be awarded the right amount for a daily resupply, or hitting a specific benchmark in season progression.

SnowcaTT

I've keep requesting a "try again" token for 4*'s:

https://www.d3go.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=44019

I'd prefer the "apply any cover" method:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=37571

moss04

My favorite option for an "unhelpful" 4* cover (from anywhere, LT or otherwise), would be to cash it in for 10 free character levels.

If the character is already at the max level for their covers you would have to sell the cover but I think all 4* covers should be sellable for 5 CP and some ISO (currently at 1000).

udonomefoo

I rarely do progression in pve anymore. Decided to do it on the last heroic. Pulled Elektra who I've had max covered but lvl 130 for about a year.

Won't be chasing full progression again for a while.

Crowl

Hyposphere6234 wrote:

Why should LT draws be any different to any other draws? I'm on day 574 and still trying to champion half of my 3*s, I've already had to sell a Kingpin cover from an LT token which was from a colour already maxed out, the next 4* daily is an Elektra cover I already have maxed out. Why should LT's be different to recieving the nth cover of Moonstone that you don't need with lower level draws? You get a guaranteed 4*\5* cover, which is a lot more than a "See those few 4*s, pay some money and we'll see. That brand new 4* Hahahahahahaha... I mean good luck. We'll throw in a 3* here or there if you're lucky. All those 2*s, we've already booked a room, you're staying with Hawkeye."

LT tokens are unfair? You've been playing this long enough to know that most of the tokens you get won't go the way you want them too!

The crucial difference between an LT and other tokens is that they are far less common and thus bad luck should be much less punishing than it is on the others, while you are right that we get a guaranteed 4*/5* cover, very often that will end up being 1k iso and increasing frustration with the excessive roadblocks on progression, there are nearly 40 4*'s in the game and if you never got any unusable dupes it would take you 16 months to fully cover them all if you got a 4* a day and another 10 years on top of that to max champ them without you significantly improving on that rate of one 4* a day.

The simple reality is that they are too stingy with covers (including the negative rng when it comes to dupes) and that hurts sales because nobody outside of whales sees any point in spending money once they reach a certain point in the game as they can earn enough HP for new slots and a one-off purchase won't make enough of a dent in the gap that exists with the top end since the only thing that matters there is your luck with pulling 5* covers.

They could easily make obtaining a 1/1/1 character for every non-casual player be a realistic aim from every pve and do more to make 5*'s usable for more people without harming the spending of whales.

Crowl

udonomefoo wrote:

I rarely do progression in pve anymore. Decided to do it on the last heroic. Pulled Elektra who I've had max covered but lvl 130 for about a year.

Won't be chasing full progression again for a while.

This simulator pve is a bad example, but in recent events the progression has been very reasonable at about 3 clears per node, so it is worth playing that much for the 25 cp.

SnowcaTT

Crowl wrote:

udonomefoo wrote:

I rarely do progression in pve anymore. Decided to do it on the last heroic. Pulled Elektra who I've had max covered but lvl 130 for about a year.

Won't be chasing full progression again for a while.

This simulator pve is a bad example, but in recent events the progression has been very reasonable at about 3 clears per node, so it is worth playing that much for the 25 cp.

I think udonomefoo's point is it -isn't- worth spending the time to get the 25 cp when that CP -SO OFTEN- gives you covers you can't apply since there is no ISO available to max most of your 4*'s, and you basically "will" get a 4*.

I've hit every progression since they've changed it to only having to play once in a 24 hour period. But even in three-sub events, that's 3 subs x 3 essentials + 3 hard nodes + 3 easy nodes + (various one-time/opening nodes) x 3 hits. 81+ matches for what ends up being 1000 ISO (another worthless 4* cover) does make PVE feel like a waste of time, if you have most of your 4*'s covered!

BraneDedDev

The saving grace is that if you were to pull the cover you needed 100% of the time, there is no ISO anyways.