Please Communicate the New 5* Release Details Ahead of Time

jobob

With a new 5* release looming on the horizon, I don't think it is unfair or unreasonable to ask that someone communicate to the player base some details about how it will be released.

Specifically... You should let us know if the new 5* is going directly into the Latest Legends pack, and that they will indeed bump GG into the classics pack. And if this the case, I think the right thing to do is let players know ahead of time, so that we can make educated decisions about when & where to spend our CP.

revskip

Pretty sure they'll have a splash screen in app when they finalize the event/character. While it would be nice to get a little heads up on particulars you have to remember that only a tiny fraction of the user base is on the forums.

PeterGibbons316

We've asked for this before, multiple times, and there is never anything communicated. I even made a suggestion thread.

The response I got from a red:

We usually announce things in advance. Sometimes we don't and it is for specific reasons related to licensing or business or other considerations.

"Business considerations" means their communication is based on whether or not they anticipate a boost in revenue by communicating early. In this case people will spend more if they think rates will change in a manner that is unfavorable to them. And so D3 will allow them to make purchases under that assumption, regardless of whether or not it is accurate.

JVReal

revskip wrote:

Pretty sure they'll have a splash screen in app when they finalize the event/character. While it would be nice to get a little heads up on particulars you have to remember that only a tiny fraction of the user base is on the forums.

While I agree that the splash screens are the ideal way to communicate to the player base en mass, this being their Official Forum, a player should be able to get the splash screen, then come here to see more detailed information about the release.

MOST companies announce their information on their official sites before they announce it to their player base by means of an in-game pop up. If they did not have an official forum, I would expect all announcements made by splash screen and that it would be sufficient.

mpqr7

You'll need to open half your tokens beforehand and half afterward. That way at least one of those halves, you'll get the better odds.

jobob

"Business considerations." Wow. I'm not shocked that it is a reason, I'm shocked that they are so out of touch with the player base that they would actually be honest and say it.

jobob

Also... Colog makes a solid point... So if anyone needs any gift ideas, I'm now asking for a unicorn for my birthday present.

jffdougan

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

We've asked for this before, multiple times, and there is never anything communicated. I even made a suggestion thread.

The response I got from a red:

We usually announce things in advance. Sometimes we don't and it is for specific reasons related to licensing or business or other considerations.

"Business considerations" means their communication is based on whether or not they anticipate a boost in revenue by communicating early. In this case people will spend more if they think rates will change in a manner that is unfavorable to them. And so D3 will allow them to make purchases under that assumption, regardless of whether or not it is accurate.

I feel like a more straightforward interpretation of "business considerations" may relate to publicity deals with places like EW - those contracts often guarantee said company the right to be the first to put the news out, and so D3/Demiurge can't say anything until those announcements have dropped.

revskip

jobob wrote:

"Business considerations." Wow. I'm not shocked that it is a reason, I'm shocked that they are so out of touch with the player base that they would actually be honest and say it.

At the end of the day they are trying to make money, not sure why this would be surprising to you. As PeterGibbons said above they have no financial incentive to give you information that might curb your spending both before and after the change. Free to play means they need to extract money wherever they can and whenever they can. Demiurge isn't making this game because they love the user base so much, they make it to make money.

More communication in general terms I wouldn't mind although the General Discussion forum is one of the most negative spaces I have ever seen so I don't really blame them for climbing into the turtle shell. Still, more Q+A stuff would be nice but asking for specifics on things that will affect the way people spend money is never going to be something they will do since their salaries and the health of their company depend on that cash. Nor do I think that the player base is really entitled to them.

Overall the devs have been making mostly positive changes over the past couple of months, adding champions, increasing the pull odds on 5*s, increasing the ISO for daily alliance participation etc. I'd love to see some new content in terms of new Story mode arcs and possibly some new game modes but I'm not surprised that the developers are trying to make money and don't begrudge them for holding back communication on stuff like pull draws when it could negatively impact their bottom line. I'm glad they are since the game continuing depends solely on them staying profitable and I am still having fun with the game.

jobob

jffdougan wrote:

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

We've asked for this before, multiple times, and there is never anything communicated. I even made a suggestion thread.

The response I got from a red:

We usually announce things in advance. Sometimes we don't and it is for specific reasons related to licensing or business or other considerations.

"Business considerations" means their communication is based on whether or not they anticipate a boost in revenue by communicating early. In this case people will spend more if they think rates will change in a manner that is unfavorable to them. And so D3 will allow them to make purchases under that assumption, regardless of whether or not it is accurate.

I feel like a more straightforward interpretation of "business considerations" may relate to publicity deals with places like EW - those contracts often guarantee said company the right to be the first to put the news out, and so D3/Demiurge can't say anything until those announcements have dropped.

Seems like that would fall into more of a "licensing" consideration than business.

Besides, all that stuff you mentioned is irrelevant. They have already announced a new 5* is coming. Telling us whether it will go into the LL pack or if it will have its own feature pack does nothing to violate that type of agreement.

Colognoisseur

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

We've asked for this before, multiple times, and there is never anything communicated. I even made a suggestion thread.

The response I got from a red:

We usually announce things in advance. Sometimes we don't and it is for specific reasons related to licensing or business or other considerations.

"Business considerations" means their communication is based on whether or not they anticipate a boost in revenue by communicating early. In this case people will spend more if they think rates will change in a manner that is unfavorable to them. And so D3 will allow them to make purchases under that assumption, regardless of whether or not it is accurate.

The problem is they are so inconsistent. Yes keeping Peggy under wraps until whoever it was had the exclusive to publish it is completely understandable.

Not telling us the PvE was a double iso event. What possible "business consideration" was there not to communicate that in a thread like the Sneak Peek which is expressly made to let that kind of information out?

Not telling us who the new 5* is that can be a last-minute thing for "business considerations".
Not telling us what will happen to the token odds and rotation that is down to their inability to communicate nearly anything in a timely manner.

jobob

revskip wrote:

jobob wrote:

"Business considerations." Wow. I'm not shocked that it is a reason, I'm shocked that they are so out of touch with the player base that they would actually be honest and say it.

At the end of the day they are trying to make money, not sure why this would be surprising to you. As PeterGibbons said above they have no financial incentive to give you information that might curb your spending both before and after the change. Free to play means they need to extract money wherever they can and whenever they can. Demiurge isn't making this game because they love the user base so much, they make it to make money.

More communication in general terms I wouldn't mind although the General Discussion forum is one of the most negative spaces I have ever seen so I don't really blame them for climbing into the turtle shell. Still, more Q+A stuff would be nice but asking for specifics on things that will affect the way people spend money is never going to be something they will do since their salaries and the health of their company depend on that cash. Nor do I think that the player base is really entitled to them.

Overall the devs have been making mostly positive changes over the past couple of months, adding champions, increasing the pull odds on 5*s, increasing the ISO for daily alliance participation etc. I'd love to see some new content in terms of new Story mode arcs and possibly some new game modes but I'm not surprised that the developers are trying to make money and don't begrudge them for holding back communication on stuff like pull draws when it could negatively impact their bottom line. I'm glad they are since the game continuing depends solely on them staying profitable and I am still having fun with the game.

I am in sales, so I fully understand and appreciate the need to make money. There are different ways to go about making money though. I try to show my customers the value of our products and services. Intentionally keeping them in the dark in hopes of driving up sales is something that I would never do, because it damages relationships, and is not in my opinion ethical.

If that's indeed what they are doing, then no wonder the forums are so negative. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt by assuming they were lazy.

Why would you ever do something that might cost you money short-term? I do it regularly, and it's always because it contributes to the overall health and sustainability of the business. The fact that their salaries and jobs depend on it is EXACTLY why they should be communicating with their customers.

You say the forums are negative... The picture that you are painting of them is as negative and cynical as any comment I've seen on the forums.

PeterGibbons316

jobob wrote:

I'm shocked that they are so out of touch with the player base

This is what is troubling. I've touched on this in the past, and things are a little different now, but the fact of the matter is that it doesn't seem that the devs understand the level of planning that takes place to be successful in the 5* tier.

For example - if the draw rate for a particular 5* character changes from 3.75% to 3%, assuming advertised pull rates, that's an additional 87 legendary tokens you will need to open to get 13 covers for that character. And that assumes you don't pull 6 of any one color. If you are a spender, 87 classic pulls is 12.5 stark buy clubs or $1300. Say you have 12 OML covers and you really want that last cover. At 3.75% it will cost you 27 pulls or $400, at 3% it's 34 pulls or $500. So if you buy before the rates change you could save $100.

For the purpose of this discussion (and easy math) I'm going to assume a F2P 5* transitioner can earn 140 CP/week (1 stark buy). To them this kind of change means ±3 months to get a maxed 5*. Guess right and your progression is shortened by 3 months, guess wrong and it gets extended. 3 months. A fiscal quarter. A lot of players hoard CP for seasons at a time, when to cash in that CP is entirely dependent on draw rates. When people are planning for SO LONG they deserve the right to consider how a change might affect their plans before that change goes live.

dsds

revskip wrote:

jobob wrote:

"Business considerations." Wow. I'm not shocked that it is a reason, I'm shocked that they are so out of touch with the player base that they would actually be honest and say it.

At the end of the day they are trying to make money, not sure why this would be surprising to you. As PeterGibbons said above they have no financial incentive to give you information that might curb your spending both before and after the change. Free to play means they need to extract money wherever they can and whenever they can. Demiurge isn't making this game because they love the user base so much, they make it to make money.

More communication in general terms I wouldn't mind although the General Discussion forum is one of the most negative spaces I have ever seen so I don't really blame them for climbing into the turtle shell. Still, more Q+A stuff would be nice but asking for specifics on things that will affect the way people spend money is never going to be something they will do since their salaries and the health of their company depend on that cash. Nor do I think that the player base is really entitled to them.

Overall the devs have been making mostly positive changes over the past couple of months, adding champions, increasing the pull odds on 5*s, increasing the ISO for daily alliance participation etc. I'd love to see some new content in terms of new Story mode arcs and possibly some new game modes but I'm not surprised that the developers are trying to make money and don't begrudge them for holding back communication on stuff like pull draws when it could negatively impact their bottom line. I'm glad they are since the game continuing depends solely on them staying profitable and I am still having fun with the game.

Yes, I understand that they are trying to make money. But I think it's the wrong way to make money. Basically they are running a casino and not telling people things planned and how game play changes from time to time in hopes of tricking people to spend. That's not how you build good long term relationships with your customers. I've seen many better companies that earn the revenue (eg. bonus content, yes it means more work, but that's how the real world works, you work harder, you earn more. Not how it is done here, where be more deceptive, treat the player base like they are expendable to make more money) they get instead of tricking people into giving up their money. Also the company has stated that this video game media is also a medium to promote movies and other upcoming marvel things such as comics as well. So more communications isn't so bad when you consider all these things.

The forum is such a negative place because they have done so with unpopular game changes and then treating us like we don't know what they are doing. At least be honest and upfront about things. Really being honest about nerfs even though they are not popular and also being upfront about it would be very good. How much more money do you make by being secretive and not communicating hoping to squeeze a few more dollars out compared with the goodwill lost by treating the player base badly?

Yes there have been positive changes to the game, yet there are also negative. I think it's still a net positive, but I just don't want people thinking that it was all rainbows and sunshine. The champing was great but also lead to the nerf of all characters below 4* after they were maxed levels. This resulted in a huge portion of the 3* player base not being able compete well in pvp.

They were able to tell us about the taco vault change which was very much appreciated (I didn't like the change but I liked the upfront open communications about it so I can make an informed decision). If they could be more upfront like this, it would go a long way.

revskip

jobob wrote:

I am in sales, so I fully understand and appreciate the need to make money. There are different ways to go about making money though. I try to show my customers the value of our products and services. Intentionally keeping them in the dark in hopes of driving up sales is something that I would never do, because it damages relationships, and is not in my opinion ethical.

If that's indeed what they are doing, then no wonder the forums are so negative. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt by assuming they were lazy.

Why would you ever do something that might cost you money short-term? I do it regularly, and it's always because it contributes to the overall health and sustainability of the business. The fact that their salaries and jobs depend on it is EXACTLY why they should be communicating with their customers.

You say the forums are negative... The picture that you are painting of them is as negative and cynical as any comment I've seen on the forums.

Did not mean it to sound cynical at all. They do show all of their customers the value of the product at a loss already. That is done by making it free to play and allowing the player base to literally choose to not spend a dime and still receive every mode of play. Servers cost money just to host the game. That is the short term loss they are already taking.

The only thing spending does in MPQ is slightly accelerate the amount of time spent collecting. And no one is kept in the dark in perpetuity, they just don't release info until they are ready to roll out the new feature/mechanic. In some cases that means they might make more money from someone who doesn't like the change before the release and in others from someone who likes the change enough to spend where they previously wouldn't. Not everyone is going to agree on features/game mechanics. The issue at play here is that some people want more info than the devs are willing to provide. If that is a breaking point then they probably lose those customers. It's a game, eventually most users will walk away when it no longer is fun for them. As long as they bring in more customers than they lose it really isn't a terrible thing.

irwando

Why does someone ask this every time a new 5* comes out?

Why would you expect anything other than what they've previously announced?
- New Character -> Latest Legendary Token
- Oldest Character in Latest Token -> Classic Legendary Token

Has that not been consistent? What other information do you want?

dsds

aesthetocyst wrote:

Colognoisseur wrote:

Not telling us the PvE was a double iso event. What possible "business consideration" was there not to communicate that in a thread like the Sneak Peek which is expressly made to let that kind of information out?

You've got key covers on the clock but need more iso than you can make before they expire. You could buy the iso (hey, it happens). You might delay buying that Lode if you find out you've got a heavier than usual flow coming in the form of a double iso event.

Granted that's a very specific circumstance, but it is a possibility and the kind of choice spending players find themselves confronting.

On the other hand, I can't think of a single way that a double iso event announced in advance would stimulate sales. Can anyone? SOme players might need health packs to completely farm all the nodes ... maybe? But they would do that whether it was announced in advance or not.

Yes leaving out information would stimulate sales, but what long term good would that do? So you spend on iso to level your character so you can champ him. Then you find out that you didn't need to. Now you feel angry and frustrated, because you could have bought hp and bought more slots, etc. It makes you feel like you are ripped off. We are not even asking for that much advance notice. Just a few days before the change will be applied or future plans of it. Heck what's to stop people from spending more in anticipation of a change. For instance the new 5* draw rate, maybe if they announced it earlier, people would play more pve and spend on more health packs to get more cp for the change. Ok maybe they have to give out more rewards, is that a bad thing. It's digital goods, there is a fixed cost to create the rewards, it doesn't cost anything to give out extras.

Double iso event allows people to slot time for it to maximize their farming. It allows them time to get essential characters for the event. Someone might spend on tokens to get the essential characters. Also advancement of character levels may encourage players to play more future events. But if they don't know it's double iso, they may skip the wholte event. It's not even about advantage, it's about trust, communications, and consistency.

PeterGibbons316

irwando wrote:

Why does someone ask this every time a new 5* comes out?

Why would you expect anything other than what they've previously announced?
- New Character -> Latest Legendary Token
- Oldest Character in Latest Token -> Classic Legendary Token

Has that not been consistent? What other information do you want?

Because the game changes damn near every time a new 5* comes out?

SS brought LTs
OML changed odds from 5% to 10%
PHX changed nothing
BSS added latest tokens
GG did nothing
IM/Cap brought CW tokens

And most recently, the end of the CW added a 4th character to classics, and increased total draw rates from 10% to 15%.

Based on previous actions and communications none of the following would surprise me...

1.) New 5*/IM/Cap in Latest @ 5% each, all 5 others in Classic with 3% rate each.

This is what most assume will happen, but there is a problem with this method that only someone who only cares about how much money can be sucked out the players would notice...Latest tokens are 25 CP each - you pay a premium for a shot at the newest characters. With 3 Latest characters at 5% you can draw them at a rate of 500 CP/cover. With 5 characters in classics at a 3% rate each they are 667 CP/cover. Now all of a sudden you get more bang for your buck by spending CP on Latest tokens. As a result the following changes are not unlikely:

2) Put the new 5* in the Latest tokens so that both Latest and Classic have 4 characters
3) Increase the cost of the Latest token.
4) Decrease the cost of the Classic token.
5) Increase the draw rate of the Classic token.
6) Decrease the draw rate of the Latest token.

Or some combination of all 6 of those. Your 5* planning/goals could be impacted in either a positive or negative way based on the decision that D3 makes. They know this, and they want you to assume that the worst of these 6 options is a reality so that you spend now when maybe you otherwise wouldn't.

jobob

irwando wrote:

Why does someone ask this every time a new 5* comes out?

Why would you expect anything other than what they've previously announced?
- New Character -> Latest Legendary Token
- Oldest Character in Latest Token -> Classic Legendary Token

Has that not been consistent? What other information do you want?

Lol, no, it hasn't been consistent. That's only happened 1 time, with GG pushing OML out. Do you seriously not remember IM/Cap had their own special tokens at release? It was only like a month or two ago.

Also they haven't "previously announced" anything... Which is part of the problem.

Finally... "What other information do you want?" I thought it was obvious I would like to know the timing of the release.

jobob

Okay... I see he drops 7/14.

Now that the article is up... Can we confirm that he's going straight to LL and displacing GG?