Journey to SHIELD SIM progression

h4n1s

Most of us know that in SHIELD sim, there are 3 notable progression awards (3* covers) for people in 3* transition.

This time, my eye really got caught by the one on 1700 points - Iron Fist. So I decided to get it.

My strategy was to wait for some days in the season, to ensure I will have some high points targets from beginning. The journey was however extremely tough to be honest.

My team composes of 3* Torch (currently at 5/3/3), and 2* Thor, 2* OBW and 2* Wolvie at around lvl 120. Rest of my roster is rather useless, undercovered or underlevelled - therefore the need to get the awards.

After reaching 500 pts, all I could see were champed 2* teams and 3* teams (around lvl 140). Doable.
After reaching 1000 pts, all I could see were combos of champed 2* teams mixed with maxed 3* (lvl 166). Yeah, a bit of a challenge, but still possible (7-10 minutes per match)
After reaching 1200 pts, the teams composition started to be annoying - champed 2* or maxed 3* accompanied with 5* (1-2 covers tops) - usually over 26k hitpoints to deal with (>10 minutes per match)... AND most importantly I started to notice defensive losses from way higher ranked teams.
Over 1400 pts the teams composition was similar to the previous, but I started to suffer from very often defensive losses from way overpowered teams (and lack of healthpacks, thanks to true healing) - netting progress per hour of about +55 pts..... Time for 1st 24hrs shield.
Next day, I unshielded to hit few 50 pts targets (rare to find!) and manage to progress to 1600 in about 2 hours of gameplay (you win 50 pts and lose on defense 30....annoying). Time for 3 hours shield due to lack of healthpacks.
After those 3 hours I got lucky, fought 3 opponents (net around 140 pts) and lost only one on defense (37 pts), which granted me progression award most desired....but I am now not sure if it was worth it.

TL;DR - getting to 1700 cost me around 30 healthpacks (thanks to DDQ healthpack pull); 375 HP for shields; 35 boosts (primarily match damage and AP, after 1500pts) and most importantly over 6 hours of nearly consistent gameplay (broken to 3, due to shielding) and frustration .

This journey pointed out few (maybe obvious) issues:

1) I have not met many 4* opponents (in fact 1 out of 30 teams had a 4* in roster), but I met 7 out of 10 teams having 5* in their defensive team => maybe MMR issue, but certainly something is terribly wrong with the scaling of power...
2) The difficulty is not growing gradually, as it should, but exponentially (!!!), and remember, we speak here not about the end game content, but about 3* covers on progression marks
3) Reaching shield sim progression awards above 1300 pts is rather impossible without shield hops, during the course of the season for 3* transitioning players
4) The motivation to aim higher next time is dropping quite quickly...

What would have helped to limit the frustration?

- limit of points lost (one may lose tops e.g. 100-150 pts since last fight)
- improved MMR and implementing seed teams of various strength if no relevant opponent is available in the bracket (to limit hitting the wall of overpowered teams)
- revisiting the progression awards to enable more gradual transition

Quebbster

It's still early in the season, so the number of available high Point targets is probably pretty low. I have no idea when the sweet spot for pushing is though - I got to 2000 Points yesterday, but I have a pretty strong roster, so I can't speak for how it is for weaker rosters.

h4n1s

Quebbster wrote:

It's still early in the season, so the number of available high Point targets is probably pretty low. I have no idea when the sweet spot for pushing is though - I got to 2000 Points yesterday, but I have a pretty strong roster, so I can't speak for how it is for weaker rosters.

Yeah, yesterday when I was at 1602 I noticed you being one rank above me, so I took a look on your roster just to see if I already am out of my league. I learned that I was... by the hard way

Quebbster

h4n1s wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

It's still early in the season, so the number of available high Point targets is probably pretty low. I have no idea when the sweet spot for pushing is though - I got to 2000 Points yesterday, but I have a pretty strong roster, so I can't speak for how it is for weaker rosters.

Yeah, yesterday when I was at 1602 I noticed you being one rank above me, so I took a look on your roster just to see if I already am out of my league. I learned that I was... by the hard way

Well, I have been playing for two and a half years, so I'd like to Think I have earned my roster strength. I realized today I am starting to run out of fourstars to champion though...

Polares

Your team is still a 2 team so I guess it is still a bit early for you to easily get to 1700, but you probably get to 900 and 1200 easily, and to 1400 with a bit of extra work, so you are getting 3 3s covers every Sim. You will see that by the time you have two or three 3s it will be much much easier.

IF is a very important char so your HP has been well spent.

What I find more troublesome is what you say about 5s. A lot of people is winning 5s with PvE CPs and they are using them with one or two covers, to completely ruin the experience of other 2 players. 2 players should have NEVER been allowed to win 5 chars. This completely screws progression.

MMR should be based on the teams you use in PvP and Sim, not in your roster. And 2 teams that use 5s should heavily impact those teams MMR so if they use their 5s they should be placed against 4s and other 5 teams.

Quebbster wrote:

...

I realized today I am starting to run out of fourstars to champion though...

How did you do that?????? My list of max covered 4s waiting to be champed is unattainable (I just champed Nova, now levelling PH, then Punisher, Quake, Peggy, etc, etc)

Quebbster

Polares wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

...

I realized today I am starting to run out of fourstars to champion though...

How did you do that?????? My list of max covered 4s waiting to be champed is unattainable (I just champed Nova, now levelling PH, then Punisher, Quake, Peggy, etc, etc)

There is only one way to eat an elephant: One bite at a time. I am up to 22 champed fourstars, so it is incredibly rare for me to get something I cannot use from legendary tokens. The champ rewards help keep the ball running. Right now I only have Reed Richards and Amadeus Cho left who are fully covered but not yet championed.
I have held off on my 5* transition though - my OML is level 330 and will stay there until I get more black and red covers (he's 2/5/3). If I get Another Phoenix Purple cover I might stockpile my ISO and my CP until I can max and champion her in one go, but for the moment she remains unleveled with her 5/2/5 build...
(Nova is dang fun to play though. I got lucky and got many covers for him early, so he's been championed for sometime and is just a blast - pun intended - to play).

h4n1s

Polares wrote:

What I find more troublesome is what you say about 5s. A lot of people is winning 5s with PvE CPs and they are using them with one or two covers, to completely ruin the experience of other 2 players. 2 players should have NEVER been allowed to win 5 chars. This completely screws progression.

MMR should be based on the teams you use in PvP and Sim, not in your roster. And 2 teams that use 5s should heavily impact those teams MMR so if they use their 5s they should be placed against 4s and other 5 teams.

I agree. It's not that they would be unbeatable (with 1 or 2 covers) - they can be beaten. But their match damage and hitpoints are just way too above the line, where it would be challenging and fun in the same time, as an encounter for 2* player. And those 10-15 minutes spent on these fights usually expose the player to some defensive loses, therefore slowing down progression.

Polares

Quebbster wrote:

Polares wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

...

I realized today I am starting to run out of fourstars to champion though...

How did you do that?????? My list of max covered 4s waiting to be champed is unattainable (I just champed Nova, now levelling PH, then Punisher, Quake, Peggy, etc, etc)

There is only one way to eat an elephant: One bite at a time. I am up to 22 champed fourstars, so it is incredibly rare for me to get something I cannot use from legendary tokens. The champ rewards help keep the ball running. Right now I only have Reed Richards and Amadeus Cho left who are fully covered but not yet championed.
I have held off on my 5* transition though - my OML is level 330 and will stay there until I get more black and red covers (he's 2/5/3). If I get Another Phoenix Purple cover I might stockpile my ISO and my CP until I can max and champion her in one go, but for the moment she remains unleveled with her 5/2/5 build...
(Nova is dang fun to play though. I got lucky and got many covers for him early, so he's been championed for sometime and is just a blast - pun intended - to play).

I have the impression I am not very efficient with my iso expenditure. I have 'just' 12 champed 4s + 435 level OML (my PH is still level 300), so that is more or less like 13 champs. You have 9 more than me, so, or I spend too much iso in other stuff like boosts or you win far more iso than me. I might need to play more LRs

In any case, kudos to you for having so many champed 4s !

With Punisher, Quake and Peggy champed (in a couple of months I hope) I guess there would be no more incentive to champ more 4s though.

And I agree Nova is REALLY fun.

Quebbster

Polares wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

Polares wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

...

I realized today I am starting to run out of fourstars to champion though...

How did you do that?????? My list of max covered 4s waiting to be champed is unattainable (I just champed Nova, now levelling PH, then Punisher, Quake, Peggy, etc, etc)

There is only one way to eat an elephant: One bite at a time. I am up to 22 champed fourstars, so it is incredibly rare for me to get something I cannot use from legendary tokens. The champ rewards help keep the ball running. Right now I only have Reed Richards and Amadeus Cho left who are fully covered but not yet championed.
I have held off on my 5* transition though - my OML is level 330 and will stay there until I get more black and red covers (he's 2/5/3). If I get Another Phoenix Purple cover I might stockpile my ISO and my CP until I can max and champion her in one go, but for the moment she remains unleveled with her 5/2/5 build...
(Nova is dang fun to play though. I got lucky and got many covers for him early, so he's been championed for sometime and is just a blast - pun intended - to play).

I have the impression I am not very efficient with my iso expenditure. I have 'just' 12 champed 4s + 435 level OML (my PH is still level 300), so that is more or less like 13 champs. You have 9 more than me, so, or I spend too much iso in other stuff like boosts or you win far more iso than me. I might need to play more LRs

In any case, kudos to you for having so many champed 4s !

With Punisher, Quake and Peggy champed (in a couple of months I hope) I guess there would be no more incentive to champ more 4s though.

And I agree Nova is REALLY fun.

I very rarely use boosts and I try to hit as many Lightning rounds as I can (the seed teams practically beat themselves up when I run OML and Iron Fist), so my main ISO expidenture other than leveling is skipping in PvP, and that's not a huge drain on the economy.
I realize that once I move on to fivestar land I will have Little reason to use my fourstars, so I am holding off on that step as long as possible.

Hendross

Congratulations. It's refreshing to hear someone meeting their goal(s)

Natsufan01

With 3* rosters, you want to climb late. Even with 4* rosters, climbing later is easier. If you start early, you're facing a lot of teams at about the same point amount as you, but very few higher than you, so every fight is worth 35-40 points. Start a week into it, and most fights are 50-60points. And the teams using 2 and 3*s have gotten up to 800-1000 already, so that's most of what you'll face.

I always joined about a week late and climbed to 1k. Then wait another week and climb to about 1500 and float. Then about 3-4 days left, pick a day and devote to climbing to 2k using all your resources. Once you do, freefall and you'll end around 1400ish. I have never shielded in the simulator and could easily hit 2k climbing later with a 3 star team, even before championing pushed them a bit stronger. Don't try to hit 2k too late though, because people start to push harder to secure their season scores, or just to hit 2k that haven't already. 3-4 days before the end seems to be a good time for that 2k climb.

hopper1979

One of the reasons you are getting hit for so many points is you are climbing too early and you do not have a roster that scares people off. Stay around 1000th place in your bracket, make sure you maintain that rank. 5-7 days from the you should be around 1200-1400 points then you make your climb to the end in one session, especially if you are aiming for 1700 points this is very doable. If you are going for 2000 I would wait until you hit 1500. You will still have to use health packs but not 30, you will still get hit but hopefully not as much because you are not going to be so high you are worth a ton of points. Just expect to get hammered when you finish your climb. This has worked very well for me, now that I have a better roster I can do things differently but where you are now it should work well for you.

huktonfonix

h4n1s wrote:

This journey pointed out few (maybe obvious) issues:

1) I have not met many 4* opponents (in fact 1 out of 30 teams had a 4* in roster), but I met 7 out of 10 teams having 5* in their defensive team => maybe MMR issue, but certainly something is terribly wrong with the scaling of power...

I don't think this is a function of MMR issues (although lord knows there are MMR issues), but the relative utility of under-covered 4's and 5's. As a 2-3* transition player, you're not going to get matched against opponents with rosters full of fully-covered 4's, but most people (you included, I assume?) in that range have a bunch of 4's and/or 5's with just a handful of covers. You, of course, continue to use your 2*'s that are actually covered, instead of 4's with a handful of covers, because they are far more effective. A level 120 2* Thor is leaps and bounds better than say, a 2/1/1 4* Thor. With a few rare exceptions, 4*'s, like 2's and 3's, need to have 13 covers to be viable in PVP.

5's are different. I have no more than 2 covers for any 5* character, but I use several of them regularly in both PVP and PVE. Their match damage and HP are so high that they can be useful even with no usable powers, and if you get lucky with the right covers their powers are sometimes great even with only 1-2 covers.

Basically, what you're seeing are people who are nowhere near having fully-covered 4's to use, but that got lucky with a few 5* pulls.

MarvelMan

Thank you for sharing. Its nice to hear that with some strategy and effort goals are accomplished.

It does highlight an issue that nags at me: rewards important to progression within a level are often very difficult for that level to achieve (ie 2*->3* transitioners have trouble getting the 3* covers, 3*->4* transitioners lack 4* covers, 4*->5* transitioners get RNGscrewed). Im not saying they should be given away like candy at Halloween, but there is something just off about the speed of progression and its not just iso availability.

Speaks to how much of an improvement to the game tiered PVP would be, with well tuned rewards.

We_are_Venom

I hit 1700 today, I think I started at 605. I'm close to hitting 4k for the season so I won't go for 2k until I've passed that mark to limit people abusing my nether region orifice in shield sim.