Suggestion: In game deck size reduction

Morphis

After playing the game a lot I realized that the decks size at 40 makes the deck building a little too unreliable.

At the beginning of the game this was not that much of a problem cause decks had not much sinergy. So every card you did put had a value in itself.

Nowadays the game evolved and usually you build decks based on some cards working well together that most of the time need some setup.

Now I know that random elements are indeed good in a card game but this is also a match gem.
There is already a huge impact of luck in getting the resources needed to play those cards in the first place.
That's too much random effects...

I think bringing the deck size to 30 would make at least card distribution less random.

majincob

I disagree. Having played the paper game since the deck rules consisted entirely of "at least 40 cards in the deck" It becomes boring quick if there is not enough variance. I feel that at 40 cards there is a real possibility that you won't see 1 or 2 key cards in the deck in a game which creates tension in deckbuilding and results in more varied play experiences. At 30 cards it becomes much more reliable to get at least one of each card.

Morphis

And I disagree with your disagreement

First of it all we cannot compare properly to paper magic, there are too many differences.

I talk based on my experience in this game(I have some experience in paper too)

Even when I have 5 creatures in deck it happens too often that I get nothing but spells and/or supports for like 5-6 turns.

Making the deck 30 card sized won't erase completely this chance, but will make it happen less often.

As I stated random is good, is just a matter of "how much random is too much random"
When you add the intrinsic random element of the Gem match it looks a little too much to me....
At 30 deck size I can still draw 2 copies of same card back to back, but at least makes the third one happen really rarely at least.

majincob

Morphis wrote:

And I disagree with your disagreement

At least we can agree to disagree?

EDHdad

Instead of running 5 or 6 creatures, you might play 3 or 4, and then play more cards which put those creatures into your hand.

In green, the creature tutors Seek the Wilds and Gather the Pack are useful. A couple of creatures also draw other creatures when they enter the battlefield.

In blue, Sigiled Starfish, Jori En Ruin Diver and Jhessian Thief will draw cards each turn, allowing you to cycle through your deck. Blue has a number of additional draw spells as well.

Red can also run Jori En.

Black has Read the Bones and other draw effects. Sarkhan and Ob Nixilis also have the inherent ability to draw cards.

White doesn't have a lot of draw spells, but Gideon II can spawn creatures out of thin air and Ajani has access to Jori En.

Garruk can also spawn creatures, meaning you don't have to put as many into a deck. Jace can fetch a spell card. Kiora can fetch a creature. Tezzeret can fetch a support.

Any color can use Jayemdae Tome, but it's somewhat inconsistent in my experience.

If you can draw an additional card each turn, and pitch the one you want the least at present, you've effectively turned your 40 card deck into a 20 card deck.

Morphis

Yes drawing and fetch can "fix" it.

Draw could even "fix" a 50 deck size or 60. That does not mean these numbers would be better for the game.

Also for me card draw should be more about going to get the card you need in a specific scenario(or helping gather that to keep charged for when you need it) or help setup some combo.
It should not "fix" the problem of being unable to start playing altogether.

Probably all of this is generated as a side effect of the 3 slot limit for creature.
Beside some decks like support or really heavy controls, you want to get creatures out so you want to ensure to get some.
Even with 5 creatures it happens too often that you do not draw one in the first couple turns.
Running more creatures will be bad cause of the 3 slot limit unless you are lucky getting same one to reinforce.


In the end, to make it short, I think the random component is needed but at 40 too marked.
30 deck size could be more balanced in random/consistency ratio.

Bastrakova

Dear Morphis,

Developers cannot increase the Deck Cards amount because it will be very similar to HeartStone and because such game starts to be much harder. Deck construction already very difficult, there are too much cards and combinations. If you want to make it 30 or 40 cards it will be insane.
Moreover the gameplay expect that you play 3 creatures, if you add 27 spells support the gameplay will be ruined.
Agree to your opponent

Morphis

Bastrakova wrote:

Dear Morphis,

Developers cannot increase the Deck Cards amount because it will be very similar to HeartStone and because such game starts to be much harder. Deck construction already very difficult, there are too much cards and combinations. If you want to make it 30 or 40 cards it will be insane.
Moreover the gameplay expect that you play 3 creatures, if you add 27 spells support the gameplay will be ruined.
Agree to your opponent

That is not what we are discussing here.

We are talking about in game "deck" not the amount of cards allowed when building it.

Basically this game lets you choose 10 cards, then put 4xcopies of those cards in a deck. In the game you draw from that deck till it is empty.
Then another 40 card deck is created again....
That means that right now you can draw(excluding tutor effects) maximum 4 copies of the same card within the first 40.

With my suggestion the initial 10 cards would remain the same, but instead of making 4x10 card deck it would be 3x10.
That would lead to (slightly I think) less chances to get multiple copies of the same card in a given "card draw interval". So a little less random and a little more consistent gameplay as far as card concerned.

Gems generation/distribution already adds a random element by itself.

Morphis

It's been a while since my statistics sudies but I gave it a try.

Won't show the calculations(first case I could, second requires lot more explanations) but there are more or less the results I got:

Drawing all distinct first 4 cards

40 deck size - 59.8%
30 deck size - 62%

Drawing exactly 2xcopies of any card only one time(not 2 double copies) within the first 4 cards

40 deck size - 37.8%
30 deck size - 35.4%

If we assume these calculations to be(rounding a apart) right, we can see the trend.
As expected 30 card favors less duplicates, but the difference is not that big.