think it's worth champing 2* bullseye / moonstone?

loroku

They're terrible characters, even when boosted. Their 3* rewards are terrible (Bullseye, Hulk) - you probably don't even want those covers because you're not champ'ing them, either. I get that you kind of come out ahead in the very long run, but it's hard to justify the 70k ISO today for the trickle of rewards over the next ...year?

What do people think? I'm not in the top anything and much more casual than this forum's average but just wondering if others have plunked down the 70k for the long-term benefit or just ignored them because that's like 60% of a 3* champ cost. Or even if people think there exists a long-term benefit.

Edit: see my more detailed analysis below, but in the end, each cycle of max/champ/selling a 2* character only nets you 250 HP and 5 CP and costs ~5k ISO. It also costs a 75k ISO investment that will take a long time to recover.

Redrobot30

Depends on what your roster looks like right now and what your goals are as well. If they are already rostered for you and you aren't trying to keep up with the 4* arms race then I would say why not? Go for it. The rate that you get 2* characters is fast enough that even playing casually you should be able to Champ them with little effort. Personally I pull Bullseye and Moonstone all the time... . The rewards are good and the max pay out on Iso would be a good asset to have too. As for the 3* rewards, Bullseye is pretty fun to use and Hulk has his uses, mainly as a tank.

loroku

Thanks for the reply. I guess for me, I have all the 2*s max covered, 3*s rostered (nearly all max covered), and over half the 4*s rostered (none anywhere close to maxed). So I feel like my two limiting factors in the game right now are: lack of non-random 4*s and ISO. ISO can indirectly give me several non-random 4*s (through champing 3*s) so that's really my main limiter. And so it's just hard to justify the 70k for each of these guys that I will never use, and (thankfully) rarely get covers for (although of course now I will). It just feels hard to gauge whether or not I should use the ISO on champ'ing more 3*s or just go ahead and champ these guys - as in, which result will get me further sooner? I guess it doesn't really matter in the end.

halirin

The main reason to champ them would be to set up a HP flow. That would let you get more roster slots in the long run, but it would take several cycles to make up for just selling them when you need the space for a 4*. So I would make champing them a very very low priority.

TxMoose

I don't consider moonie that bad, or hulk. but I never used her in my 2* play except at the very beginning (sold her off quickly). but now I will be going back to do 'everyone' because nothing else jumps out at me as uber-important. and it will satisfy the completionist side of me. but they will likely be some of the last ones I do. I'm focusing on better feeds (mainly looking at the eventual 4* on the feeds) and I'm working on marvel, torch, hawkeye, daken, and axw right now and dupes for ares, storm and thor. when those dupes are covered i'll sell the main and cycle them up.

I'm at a point in the game where I have all the good 4s done and going back and finishing the bottom interests me. if you're in a crunch and trying to advance your roster, its perfectly reasonable to skip the lesser 2s and just keep some in your queue for essentials. or keep them but not put any iso into them.

Skygazing

As others have said it creates a nice flow of additional resources, so I think it's worthwhile if you have the space and also have their respective 3*s champed (which nets you even better rewards).

mpqr7

I've champed them all! I'll even champ bagman in a few days. Now I get lots of rewards! The CP adds up relatively quickly when all 2*s are championed. You get a few extra every few days, so it's like doing PVE nodes but less effort.

JackTenrec

loroku wrote:

They're terrible characters, even when boosted. Their 3* rewards are terrible (Bullseye, Hulk) - you probably don't even want those covers because you're not champ'ing them, either.

I have both 3* Bullseye and Hulk champed and don't regret it at all. 3* Bullseye in particular makes ninja wave nodes go hilariously fast.

PeterGibbons316

aesthetocyst wrote:

Not only have I champed them, I maxchamped them, sold them, and, 10/10, will do it again.

It's all about flow of rewards. Post-R91, and even more so post-R103, even terrible characters contribute to your roster's internal economy.

And it's nice having essentials powered up.

I agree with this. I'm trying to get my 2*s in a state of constant leveling/champing/selling to churn through the rewards. Getting it started is the hard part, but once you get going the rewards start to trickle in indefinitely.

Berserk_Al

Had a bunch of Moonstones and enough HP for a roster slot. Recruited her, since she was my first 2star and I had sold her back then when the flow of 3stars really got fast for me. Of course, since I recruited her, it's been two weeks and I have only pulled one more cover for her.
If I don't need an emergency slot by the time she's fully covered, I will max and champ her. My most recent Ares is only ten levels from 144 now anyways. The Hulk covers would go to my champ Hulk.

revskip

I actually like Moonstone, I champed her early and used her to great effect with Patch for a while, Berserker Rage then steal back a few of the enemies strike tiles. When they changed the sell rates I sold her back and since I ended up re-covering her pretty quick she was one of the 2* I re-champed first. She's also not bad to send to people as a team up, the red ability can hit hard if you are using someone like Cyclops or if you are using Blade to make red strike tiles.

Bullseye was one of the only 2*s I didn't champ before the sell rates went down but he is in the mix for champing once I get enough covers for him if for no other reason than farming him for the 3* Bullseye covers.

loroku

Thanks for the replies, all!

Looking at it all more carefully, my concern is that the rewards you get aren't really worth the investment over time. For a 2*, getting it fully champed gives you:
- 17,500 ISO
- 5 2* tokens
- 3 3* covers
- 250 HP
- 5 CP

If you instead just sell the 50 covers for 250 ISO each, you get: 12,500 ISO

So you come out 5,000 ISO ahead, plus 2,750 ISO more (worst case on the 2* tokens and 3* covers), plus 250 HP and 5 CP.

BUT you have to spend 75,000 ISO to get that. (Specifically: 69,530 to max a 2* in the first place, + 5k to champ.) That means you have a net loss of 66,780 ISO for a gain of 250 HP and 5 CP. Even worse, that gain is gotten back extremely slowly over time - and possibly never (if you just never get those covers).

Now if I sell the fully-champed character for 65k and start over, the total net loss is just 1,780 ISO (technically +3250 ISO since that's the sell cost of the 13 covers you'd need to rebuild the character). And most of us would trade 5030 ISO (at this point, that's about 1 day's log in + DDQ) for 250 HP + 5 CP. But that is still a seriously long-term investment for such a mediocre payoff, especially given you're tying up 75k ISO in the meantime that you could be using to advance other characters.

If the 3* covers are something you really need, or the 2* character is something that really helps, that can all be worth it. (Or if ISO isn't the resource you are scarce on, and you don't mind investing to get the long-term gain.) But otherwise that's a tough choice, especially where I am in the game where ISO is the most valuable commodity.

The same is more or less true with 3*s (the ISO you get is exactly the same as what you would have gotten for selling the covers + the cost of champ'ing), except the rewards are better. But the up-front cost of maxing a character is 120k. So you're trading 120k ISO for 10 4*s (well, 7 or 7.5 LTs and 3 non-random 4*s) and one roster slot (1000 HP). After selling the fully champed 3* you end up only ~15k ISO in the hole. All that seems much more worth it - although people are saying it takes about a year to do this (or much, much longer for someone more casual, like me), so once again you are tying up 127.5k ISO for a super-long term payoff. (That's nearly half a 4*.)

Anyway, thanks for all the advice. I think at this point I'd rather sink the ~150k ISO it would cost to champ those two characters into ~1 and 1/6 3*s instead. And honestly, I know I won't be missing much by waiting until later if I do decide to do it down the road. Each max/sell cycle only gains you 250 HP and 5 CP and costs ~5k ISO. Or you can just skip it and use that ISO somewhere else.

mpqr7 wrote:

I'll even champ bagman in a few days.

How in the world are you getting Bagman covers? I've gotten 2 as random PVP rewards since I started playing (other than the 3 from the prologue).

Phumade

aesthetocyst wrote:

Not only have I champed them, I maxchamped them, sold them, and, 10/10, will do it again.

It's all about flow of rewards. Post-R91, and even more so post-R103, even terrible characters contribute to your roster's internal economy.

And it's nice having essentials powered up.

There is a lot of truth to that. If you have the spare iso to get the system running, then definitely go for it. The champ levels cascade very nicely into 3*, 4*. Ideally, you will have all 2* and 3* champed. Once characters are about 50% into the champ levels, the rewards become very nice.

Overall, this technique is for fairly advanced rosters with alot of spare iso. At that level, pvp play is generally pretty self sustaining and the reward flow from champ levels is very very nice.

Eichen

The best way to farm 2* characters is to first have a max championed character then start a second of the same guy/girl. Once you have acquired 13 covers for the second one you sell your Max Championed character for 65K and then put it into your second character. This way you are only our the 1.8K ISO at any one time.

It is super tempting though to sell them all of at 65k each and spend it in other places (like 3* and 4*) and build the 2*s again from scratch. It puts you in an ISO bind though.

MarvelMan

Phumade wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

*snip*It's all about flow of rewards.

Overall, this technique is for fairly advanced rosters with alot of spare iso. *snip*

I find the best source of 2* covers to be LR. So far this week, and we are just over half way and Ive only hit 1/4 to 1/3 of them, Ive pulled about 40x 2* covers. So its not *just* for advanced rosters. Its more about time.

Phumade

MarvelMan wrote:

Phumade wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

*snip*It's all about flow of rewards.

Overall, this technique is for fairly advanced rosters with alot of spare iso. *snip*

I find the best source of 2* covers to be LR. So far this week, and we are just over half way and Ive only hit 1/4 to 1/3 of them, Ive pulled about 40x 2* covers. So its not *just* for advanced rosters. Its more about time.

While everyone can use this technique, more advanced rosters see a much higher rate of return on cascading heroic, cp, and hp.

2* farming by itself is nice, but just that tier alone isn't going to make a difference. Its when you got the maxed 2*, feeding into maxed 3*, feeding into a champed 4* that the rewards really flow. Ideally, you are looking to be in position where you only sell 1* covers, all other covers feed into champ levels.

Don't get me wrong, its still more important to develop a strong core of 3*/ 4*/5* chars. But once those goals are softcapped, this is easily the next best investment in the game. (and the more champs you have, the better the rate of return)

mckauhu

People people learn to play, Bullseye 2* is one of the STRONGEST in 2*s. His black ability is the key. With that you can make potentially devastating match-5's and his purple protects darn well + his green can make another match 5's ! Combine for example with Hawkeyes speed shot and results are disastrous for enemies... Or combine with GSBW and watch how he does almost 10k damage to single enemy when there is enough critical tiles... Sure his black is slow, but it's worth it.

DTStump

I'd put Bullseye higher on the priority list than Moonstone simply because 3* Bullseye gives you Kingpin covers as champion rewards while Hulk gives you Cho.

That said, I like a champed Hulk's usefulness in boss battles (Galactus, Civil War...) in a 3* roster.

Lukoil

bullseye 3* terrible? He is one of the best character for wave nodes in 3*-4* land.