why do we need a 2* as an essentials in every PVE?

jdoe893

i just cant seem to relate the need to have those 2*s

djeternal

You seriously can't think of one reason they are needed? If that's true then you haven't thought about it too much. Here's one I came up with while reading your post. It gives newer players an essential they might be able to hit. Obviously it's lost on you that not everyone has a 3-5* roster already.

Vhailorx

And here's the real reason:

It creates a strong incentive for players to have more roster slots and characters if they want to grind all pve nodes. That generates revenue for demiurge/d3.

wirius

So you fill more roster slots. That's a primary means of revenue for them. I wish they had made them required before I sold my 2*'s back in the day. Fortunately I had kept OBW. for DDQ at least.

MarvelMan

djeternal wrote:

You seriously can't think of one reason they are needed? If that's true then you haven't thought about it too much. Here's one I came up with while reading your post. It gives newer players an essential they might be able to hit. Obviously it's lost on you that not everyone has a 3-5* roster already.

Not a good reason. They could hit the node if there werent a required char. Scaling should make the nodes appropriate for the roster.


The *real* reason we have 2* essentials is that the devs havent figured out that the meta has moved past the 3* stage. The three essentials were set up during the 3* meta, so it was a bit of a bone to lower rosters mixed with pushing people to roster extra chars. Now that we are pretty firmly into the 5* meta...they are just kind of left over and out of place. Even a 144 2* doesnt do squat when paired with boosted 4* or even 5* so its just saddling people with extra baggage that might cover a color the other two dont. On the tinytorch required nodes I didnt even use him, and I was going with JG40 so Id end up with a decent amount of extra red and didnt have an outlet for black. Just felt wrong.

There are quite a few design options if PVE gets an overhaul that could replace the tired 2*/3*/4* required nodes, cant wait for one (or more) to get implemented and have that 2* required gone. Find some other incentive to having a deeper roster.

djeternal

MarvelMan wrote:

djeternal wrote:

You seriously can't think of one reason they are needed? If that's true then you haven't thought about it too much. Here's one I came up with while reading your post. It gives newer players an essential they might be able to hit. Obviously it's lost on you that not everyone has a 3-5* roster already.

Not a good reason. They could hit the node if there werent a required char. Scaling should make the nodes appropriate for the roster.


The *real* reason we have 2* essentials is that the devs havent figured out that the meta has moved past the 3* stage. The three essentials were set up during the 3* meta, so it was a bit of a bone to lower rosters mixed with pushing people to roster extra chars. Now that we are pretty firmly into the 5* meta...they are just kind of left over and out of place. Even a 144 2* doesnt do squat when paired with boosted 4* or even 5* so its just saddling people with extra baggage that might cover a color the other two dont. On the tinytorch required nodes I didnt even use him, and I was going with JG40 so Id end up with a decent amount of extra red and didnt have an outlet for black. Just felt wrong.

There are quite a few design options if PVE gets an overhaul that could replace the tired 2*/3*/4* required nodes, cant wait for one (or more) to get implemented and have that 2* required gone. Find some other incentive to having a deeper roster.

Yeah not a good reason to you. I'm just taking a leap here and guessing you moved past the 1*-2* stage a year or two ago. Right? Well for me I just hit day 73 so to me the fact that they have a 2* essential for newer players is a very valid reason. I've had to skip 3* essentials because I don't have those characters yet. Stop believing that everything in this game must be catered to those that have played since the start. Not everyone has a 144 2* let alone multiple or all of them. So the fact that a 144 2* does nothing for you when combined with a boosted 4* or 5* doesn't matter to me. I don't even have a 144 2* yet so 2* still matter very much to me. And as pointed out by others in this thread having a 2* essential forces ppl to have more roster spots which is one source of income for the company.

Mercalla

I don't have any fully covered 3*'s yet, and very few 4*'s. Having the required 2* and 3* has helped me stay somewhat competitive for ranking rewards in PvE. I was in top 50 in the last event because I had a single cover Jean Grey, and top 100 in the prior 3. If that 2* was removed and replaced with another 4*, I'd be completely screwed along with all of the other newer players.

MarvelMan

djeternal wrote:

Yeah not a good reason to you. I'm just taking a leap here and guessing you moved past the 1*-2* stage a year or two ago. Right? Well for me I just hit day 73 so to me the fact that they have a 2* essential for newer players is a very valid reason. I've had to skip 3* essentials because I don't have those characters yet. Stop believing that everything in this game must be catered to those that have played since the start. Not everyone has a 144 2* let alone multiple or all of them. So the fact that a 144 2* does nothing for you when combined with a boosted 4* or 5* doesn't matter to me. I don't even have a 144 2* yet so 2* still matter very much to me. And as pointed out by others in this thread having a 2* essential forces ppl to have more roster spots which is one source of income for the company.

Not a good reason, ever.

Yes, I do have a much more established roster than you. Which is actually irrelevant as my point is that the existence of that 2* required is WORSE for early rosters. So no, Im not thinking it should be catered to the 5* meta, quite the opposite.

Doesnt matter where people are, there are better gates or alternatives than having the 2*/3*/4* required. Think of this: a starting roster can ONLY hit that 2* required node, not the 3* or 4* since they dont have those chars. If there were NO required chars, they could hit all three nodes....and if the difficulty was set appropriately they might not win the (current) 3* or 4* nodes. But they could attempt them.

People who are further into the game usually keep a stockpile of Standard tokens just so they can pull a 2* if they need them, so they are rarely if ever locked out. My point about the 144 2* is that to a 5* player, it wont matter whether they are lvl 15 or 144....that 2* required wont do squat for them against a lvl 405 opponent.......but you are locked out of even TRYING the 4* node if you dont have the char so in the end, having the 2*/3*/4* nodes is PENALIZING the early rosters vs established, even if those established players dont typically roster that 2*.

JohnnyBlood

MarvelMan wrote:

djeternal wrote:

Yeah not a good reason to you. I'm just taking a leap here and guessing you moved past the 1*-2* stage a year or two ago. Right? Well for me I just hit day 73 so to me the fact that they have a 2* essential for newer players is a very valid reason. I've had to skip 3* essentials because I don't have those characters yet. Stop believing that everything in this game must be catered to those that have played since the start. Not everyone has a 144 2* let alone multiple or all of them. So the fact that a 144 2* does nothing for you when combined with a boosted 4* or 5* doesn't matter to me. I don't even have a 144 2* yet so 2* still matter very much to me. And as pointed out by others in this thread having a 2* essential forces ppl to have more roster spots which is one source of income for the company.

Not a good reason, ever.

Yes, I do have a much more established roster than you. Which is actually irrelevant as my point is that the existence of that 2* required is WORSE for early rosters. So no, Im not thinking it should be catered to the 5* meta, quite the opposite.

Doesnt matter where people are, there are better gates or alternatives than having the 2*/3*/4* required. Think of this: a starting roster can ONLY hit that 2* required node, not the 3* or 4* since they dont have those chars. If there were NO required chars, they could hit all three nodes....and if the difficulty was set appropriately they might not win the (current) 3* or 4* nodes. But they could attempt them.

People who are further into the game usually keep a stockpile of Standard tokens just so they can pull a 2* if they need them, so they are rarely if ever locked out. My point about the 144 2* is that to a 5* player, it wont matter whether they are lvl 15 or 144....that 2* required wont do squat for them against a lvl 405 opponent.......but you are locked out of even TRYING the 4* node if you dont have the char so in the end, having the 2*/3*/4* nodes is PENALIZING the early rosters vs established, even if those established players dont typically roster that 2*.

Well, from a developing standpoint, if you are only in the 1/2* phase, getting to be able to eventually complete the 3/4* nodes is a goal. For those that are completely past the 1/2/3 heck even 4* phase, having a 2* required node at least keeps a character that has been released in the past not completely 100% useless, even if that character is involved in .05% of your overall gameplay. Granted, 2* have their use in DDQ, but this helps keep some of them rostered, if only temporary, for something other than DDQ.

PeterGibbons316

Or a better question - why is a 2* node that requires a character that is at most level 144 subject to similar scaling as nodes that can be fought with a team of maxed 5*s?

MarvelMan

JohnnyBlood wrote:

Well, from a developing standpoint, if you are only in the 1/2* phase, getting to be able to eventually complete the 3/4* nodes is a goal. For those that are completely past the 1/2/3 heck even 4* phase, having a 2* required node at least keeps a character that has been released in the past not completely 100% useless, even if that character is involved in .05% of your overall gameplay. Granted, 2* have their use in DDQ, but this helps keep some of them rostered, if only temporary, for something other than DDQ.

Except that for the 4* or 5* roster they are still useless so it doesnt matter whether they are lvl 15 or 144. To a 2* roster, they are who they will be using anyway. Only real purpose is to force people to have space....which still doesnt really work (the net gain in champ cycling 2*s had a MUCH larger impact on me rostering 2*s than the requireds have).

The better design approach, in my mind, is to open up the nodes to people who dont have the 4* (through a 1/1/1 loaner maybe?) and let them try them. Right now, its a hard barricade really only negatively impacting the 1* or 2* rosters.

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

Or a better question - why is a 2* node that requires a character that is at most level 144 subject to similar scaling as nodes that can be fought with a team of maxed 5*s?

The scaling isnt the same, but I will concede its not different enough to accurately reflect the drop off between a 5* roster at lvl 420 and the required 2* at 144.

Linkster79

IceIX wrote:

One of the intentions with this change is to cut down on things like Prologue Healing, which prolongs play time through something that is pretty obviously just a time intensive process that doesn't involve actual strong gameplay. It's something people do because it's there, much like tanking. It's not something that's fun. It's not something that's enjoyable. It's something that exists and is taken advantage of because of pure efficiency.

What we intend, and continue to drill in on is that we want players to have a broad mix of characters instead of a Top 3 that is their sole team to play with. In Versus this is a bit rougher of a prospect as players that battle have their last winning team placed on defense. So it's not always the best idea to fight with a less powerful defensive team in order to make up more points. That's something that we're always thinking about. We've discussed allowing players to set a defensive team, but with many other games out with similar versus situations this results in a very precise meta-game where an extremely large percentage of the user base chooses the same defenders. That's not a very fun time for most players.

However, in Events, we continually buff different characters, and outside of Heroics, still allow for characters to be used that aren't buffed. What we want players to do is to play with the breadth of their roster instead of using Spider-Man or Black Widow as necessary crutches and only building 3 other characters. This change is intended to result in exactly this as players see that they can't just rely on in-battle healing and look for other ways besides spending Health Packs to continue playing. We want you to keep playing on your own schedule. We want you to play with multiple characters. Doing so keeps players on their toes and making them think of character combinations that they wouldn't otherwise go with if they weren't forced out of their single set of heroes.

This is why there are 2* essentials. Imagine a meta game where only 4 or 5 characters are used, imagine how boring it would be to just rely on a single character like OBW or OML. By having a wide roster players are free to experiment with wild and fun combinations of characters in story events.

Oh wait....

Warbringa

If you have a well established 4* or 5* roster you shouldn't really have roster slot issues. You should be earning enough HP to cover roster slots. Now if you are using your HP for something else, then that is your decision. Basically 2* are essentials for the main two reasons pointed out by many earlier posters:

1.) You need to spend roster slots on keeping some 2* around or play the standard token game if you choose.

2.) New players have access to most 2* so it makes sense that at least one essential should be available to them.

I don't see them changing the structure of essentials since they are having a difficult time finding a balance with the new tests as it is.

MarvelMan

Warbringa wrote:

1.) You need to spend roster slots on keeping some 2* around or play the standard token game if you choose.

Sadly, I think this is their view....though mostly invalid as 2* rosters will have them, 5* rosters either will have them, or have a rotating spot.

Warbringa wrote:

2.) New players have access to most 2* so it makes sense that at least one essential should be available to them.

This is a flat out fail though. Without a required the node would be available. So why bother? To restrict a 2* player from even trying a 4* node? Seems petty.....

TxMoose

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

Or a better question - why is a 2* node that requires a character that is at most level 144 subject to similar scaling as nodes that can be fought with a team of maxed 5*s?

or why is my 2* node scaled 1 level higher than my 4* node when my 2* is level 15 and my 4* is level 277? that makes no sense at all. no goons involved. 3 characters on each node (sub 1 of hunt)