Sorry, Placement in Story will never go away.

bluewolf

I have been reading this forum for a while (about 7 months or so), so I am not as well versed on how long this topic (removing placement from Story) has been hovering as others. However, I have of course seen, especially with recent tests, plea after plea for removing the placement aspect of Story or PVE from the reward system. Here is why I think that will never happen:
1. The Devs are well versed in what works (play time and spending) in this and other games. Yes, there are many instances of people pointing out things that other games do better. However, games have used placement as incentive since the first video games. That was all that mattered. Competition drives play.
2. I personally know that the placement aspect keeps me playing Story past the progression mark, when I want a cover (or two or three). I have never placed Top 10 - I can't commit to that level with the time available to me - but I have gone for 3 star covers that are available by continuing play. (Often long after max progression.)
3. Placing feels good, at least the first few times. Sure, once you have hit top 20 or 50 or whatever a few times, it is not as exciting. But for developing players it is exciting and a goal to hit and strive for.
4. On a related note, I have had and played many many games that are progression only (console, mobile, etc) that I never finished, or never played, or gave up on, etc. Same with some of the progression only levels in MPQ; it gets too hard, I move to something else. Here is where I assume many players do the same, and that information is well available to the devs (how players play the progression only event vs placement events).
6. If the Story became progression only, some (many?) would hit the progression early and not play - maybe for days, depending on the structure. THAT is something the devs want to avoid if at all possible. Why do you think there is no break between Story events? Why do you think the rewarded covers/characters are needed for the next Story? Keep playing, keep playing, be engaged, be more likely to spend.
6. In the unlikely event that the monster PVE players didn't enter an event, the covers get rewarded no matter what. Maybe newer players get a cover that they don't have rostered - maybe they spend money now to add a slot.
7. Related to spending: To win placement, I believe firmly that some will spend on Health packs, boosts, etc. I think that it become much less likely to have people spending real money to hit a progression goal. You are more likely to decide, "I just can't win against the AI" than "If I spend a little money maybe I can beat it." Conversely, you can justify spending money to beat that player who maybe won't spend, or will stop playing before you do, so you may spend to keep playing.
8. Finally, I think that every time we say, "Make Story placement only!" the devs think "there ARE Placement rewards, they are achievable (usually pretty easily). There you go."

Having written this, I do think the reward structure - particularly the 4* cover rewards - needs to be changed. There are currently 32 4*'s. Soon 33 (starting Thursday, it seems). There are approx 6 Story events a month. If a 4* cover was added to progression, that would mean one cover for that character EVERY 5 MONTHS (more months as more characters are added). 13 covers - so using this system it would take 65 months, or 5 1/2 years, to fully cover a 4* (who increasingly don't even matter, but that's a whole different topic). I'm pretty sure that this game will be long gone 5 years from now. So maybe it wouldn't matter much if this change occurred. But, I'm sure it wouldn't break the game or decrease game spending that much, if at all, to give out a single 4 star cover per Story event through progression. ALSO: Maybe giving out a single cover for the next 4* essential would drive spending by some players who now just have a single cover and are trying to beat that character's node. AND it keeps them playing because they have a shot at placing better with the access to the node, where you might skip an event where you are missing many characters. Win/win, I think.

Anyway, these are my thoughts. We may all wish the devs removed placement from Story, but I just don't think it will be removed.

Stax the Foyer

If only there were some way to put additional progression rewards in place, so that there would always be something to play for.

Maybe our grandchildren will live in a world where such a thing is possible.

Tatercat

Stax the Foyer wrote:

If only there were some way to put additional progression rewards in place, so that there would always be something to play for.

Maybe our grandchildren will live in a world where such a thing is possible.

Who has time to have kids? We've got ISO to farm!

Figure15

Tatercat wrote:

Who has time to have kids? We've got ISO to farm!

Have kids. Teach them to farm.

OneLastGambit

As a t10 pve player (most of the time) I can tell you chasing t10 is not as exciting as it sounds.

The scheduling and the grind you need to do ruin any fun of placing.

xidragonxi

Every single thing that OP points out about the benefits of placement are accomplished in the PVP system. Right now the ONLY difference between PVE and PVP is that you can't lose progress in PVE.

If you want the exciting competitive benefits of placing high, play PVP. PVE should be for a different style of play.

WelcomeDeath

When people are talking progression only, they mean max progression would be increased far beyond its current structure and would include the 3* covers, 4* cover (s ) and extra iso, hp, etc that would have normally been gained by placing, with new max progression being hitting every node for all possible rewards (ideally 7/7 or less, no more). This would make much more sense and be more enjoyable than grinding for 2 (3,4,5, depending on the test setups weve seen) hours and setting alarms, etc, that are associated with top pve placement. Alliance progression also altered to a Civil War / Galactus style system. So I think most of the assumptions youre making woukd be rendered invalid.

Sandwichboy

Every single time I see an argument against a suggested change in either design or gameplay I'm baffled by the people going on about how "it can't/won't work, it would be too boring, you'd run out of stuff to do" Seriously? If you want to retain long time players, you don't keep moving the goalpost further and further in the name of "a challenge" you give them more stuff to do. Complete every progression target for this sub? Congrats you just unlocked a small bonus set of missions worth no points but more ISO than normal, tokens, etc. Run multiple pve events at the same time with enough gap in start times to give a buffer for people to be able to push on both without burning out.

One thing Blizzard did really well with WoW as it grew was continually adding more and more optional stuff that gave good daily rewards, so if you wanted a break from pvp/arena or killing time between raids you still had a reason to play. This is the kind of stuff we need to see here and yes, it totally would work. PvE right now feels like if you want to get the rewards you have to play on someone else's schedule, and for those of us who work a lot that's not only undesirable, it's all but impossible.

BillyBobJoe

Sandwichboy wrote:

PvE right now feels like if you want to get the rewards you have to play on someone else's schedule, and for those of us who work a lot that's not only undesirable, it's all but impossible.

This is the biggest thing I hate about this game. A player has to schedule his life around this game, instead of scheduling the game around his life. I have a job, family, real life, etc. With shield cooldowns and refresh timers, the game is telling me I must play or I cannot obtain "x" item. I understand the shield cooldowns (points would be in the 8-9K, or even 10K+), but story mode needs to be more relaxed.

I actually like the structure they've been trying to implement, because you can grind all the nodes right away, or lazily throughout the day and still hit the progression (25 CP). The old system, you still had wait after the first clear in order to refresh pts so that you can hit that top progression.

Either way, I farm the iso rewards off the nodes, then quit. Forget about placement.

Redrobot30

Figure15 wrote:

Tatercat wrote:

Who has time to have kids? We've got ISO to farm!

Have kids. Teach them to farm.

Give a man Iso and he will level one toon, teach a man to farm Iso and he will level many toons...