Nissa deck tweaks

Coconut99

Hey all,

Looking for some advice on where to tweak my Nissa deck. I've run pretty much the same deck for a long time with her, only changing after the BFZ patch nerfs to add Joraga Invocation back in (because her 2nd ability just costs way too much to ever be seen). However, I recently picked up Bring to Light maybe a week and a half ago, and then scored a Nissa's Renewal in my DR 5-pack this morning, so now I think it may be time for some adjusting. I have some ideas, but thought I'd get some other thoughts too.

Here's what I'm currently running--

Creatures (4)
Zendikar Incarnate
Outland Colossus
Herald of the Pantheon
Honored Heirarch

Spells (3)
Animist's Awakening
Mantle of Webs
Joraga Invocation

Supports (3)
Sword of the Animist
Zendikar's Roil
Nissa's Pilgrimage

I can probably also tweak with different cards; I've had probably the best luck with green pulls (though no From Beyond, sadly, and Nissa's Renewal, Zendikar's Incarnate, and Bring to Light are my only green Mythics. Also, no Dwyn or Spider. Okay, so not the absolute best luck, but the best of my other colors, lol).

HomeRn

I see a lot of potential here - and also super jelly that you got Nissa's Renewal. You may want to consider going for a mass-green gem generator deck style (like what I go for) since there are a few great adds from BfZ. One of which is a common! If you have Fertile Thicket, put that in. Ultra-cheap cost and instantly gets you two green gems on the board; and the Herald can play it for you immediately.

The Honored Hiearch, while great and all... is only really good when you can actually get a defender/reach blockade in front of him so that you can actually use his renowned effects - which having extra green gems on the board wouldn't hurt. So you might want to consider that since you don't have a natural defender/reach creature in the deck for right now (and since you said you don't have Skysnare or Dyen... you might want to spam the Origins packs until you do - those cards are insanely useful!)

I'd recommend you switch out Joraga Invocation, Sword of the Animist, and Zendikar's Roil.

Sword of the Animist, while very useful, is also a big liability to destroy itself if not your other supports... especially with just 2 shield by itself. Joraga Invocation... was something I have never been fond of. It just gets outclassed by Nissa's second ability since it's always there when you have the loyalty saved up. Zendikar's Roil is only going to clog up your board with elementals (this honestly fits better in other decks than the one you're using right now unless you are constantly making green landfalls which isn't easy with just Nissa's Pilgrimage).

Put in both Bring to Light and Nissa's Renewal. Bring to Light is a bit of a gamble, but getting Zendikar Incarnate for 10 mana is a monster of a deal! Nissa's Renewal is a massive mana-generating, burst healing, time-bomb of a spell - 20 green gems is nearly half the board; with that setup, there is almost a guarantee for massive burst of mana gain (and with Zendikar Incarnate on the field, he's going to get huge in a HURRY).

EDHdad

I like Sword of the Animist as a kind of ramp spell. Yes, it almost always ends up destroying itself, but it also almost always winds up netting you more mana than you put into it.

I'd be inclined to take out the Zendikar's Roil, since you already have 4 creatures in the deck, it's inconsistent, it requires you to keep a creature slot open on the board, and the creatures don't actually do anything.

I'm not a fan of Joraga Invocation. For the price, you could just put down another creature.

I'd be inclined to put in either a removal spell, like Scour from Existence, or a creature tutor, like Seek the Wilds.

Coconut99

HomeRn wrote:

I see a lot of potential here - and also super jelly that you got Nissa's Renewal. You may want to consider going for a mass-green gem generator deck style (like what I go for) since there are a few great adds from BfZ. One of which is a common! If you have Fertile Thicket, put that in. Ultra-cheap cost and instantly gets you two green gems on the board; and the Herald can play it for you immediately.

Yeah, was happy to see the Renewal drop! I may've preferred one of the mythic green BFZ creatures, but I'll certainly take it, heh. Fertile Thicket, annoyingly, is one of the BFZ C/UC cards that still eludes me (along with Serene Steward).

The Honored Hiearch, while great and all... is only really good when you can actually get a defender/reach blockade in front of him so that you can actually use his renowned effects - which having extra green gems on the board wouldn't hurt. So you might want to consider that since you don't have a natural defender/reach creature in the deck for right now (and since you said you don't have Skysnare or Dyen... you might want to spam the Origins packs until you do - those cards are insanely useful!)

If I haven't managed to snag either of those two cards after spamming Origins packs all the way from launch through BFZ release, I've basically given up getting them now. They'll be a random pleasant find in the eight-hour three-pack, or come from a QB reward, if ever. Sucks, but too much benefit from the new BFZ cards overall to not pick them over Origins, given the option.

Honored Heirarch I agree generally, though; it was one of the cards I was likely going to pull. He's nice, and the +5 mana can be very good (with Pilgrimage or Animist popping them more frequently), but without Mantle of Webs he tends to die fast (though being cheap, he can also usually come out on the first turn, so he gets some use).

I'd recommend you switch out Joraga Invocation, Sword of the Animist, and Zendikar's Roil.

Sword of the Animist, while very useful, is also a big liability to destroy itself if not your other supports... especially with just 2 shield by itself. Joraga Invocation... was something I have never been fond of. It just gets outclassed by Nissa's second ability since it's always there when you have the loyalty saved up. Zendikar's Roil is only going to clog up your board with elementals (this honestly fits better in other decks than the one you're using right now unless you are constantly making green landfalls which isn't easy with just Nissa's Pilgrimage).

Landfalls are coming not just with Pilgrimage, but with Nissa combined with Animist (usually the latter). And adding Nissa's Renewal, to me, seems ripe for making a giant token stack (especially since Roil actually counts all landfalls in one turn, unlike Hydra or some other cards). Sword of the Animist was useful both for being a cheap +2/+2 and because it helped cause cascades, though yeah, it often died quickly. Joraga I only put back in because of how infrequently I was getting enough loyalty for Nissa's 2nd ability. I wasn't a fan of it prior to then, preferring the 2nd ability back when it was cheaper. Without it, the deck doesn't feel like it has enough creature buffing.

Put in both Bring to Light and Nissa's Renewal. Bring to Light is a bit of a gamble, but getting Zendikar Incarnate for 10 mana is a monster of a deal! Nissa's Renewal is a massive mana-generating, burst healing, time-bomb of a spell - 20 green gems is nearly half the board; with that setup, there is almost a guarantee for massive burst of mana gain (and with Zendikar Incarnate on the field, he's going to get huge in a HURRY).

My thought was that Renewal would both create big gains for Incarnate and also really grow an elemental stack via Roil (though it may also be too many gems, causing fewer but larger matches...hm...).

Part of me was also thinking that adding 2 more spells may mean it's time to stick Managorger back in, especially if Bring to Light triggers a chain of itselves (which I've seen on the AI, heh). Very iffy on that, though, since Managorger is just +1/+1 per spell, though it is also a cheap creature.

I was initially leaning towards skimming off Herald and Heirarch for Bring to Light/Renewal, and maybe Sword of the Animist for Managorger.

Upstartes

I really like Sword of the Animist as a ramp for other decks, but not Nissa. She has plenty of ramp available in green as well as with her first ability.

I like to have Nissa's Pilgrimage, Fertile Thicket, and Animist's Awakening all together. Between those and the occasional use of Nissa's first ability, you can trigger all sorts of cascades and landfalls.

I'm a big fan of Joraga Invocation. Yes, it is outclassed by Nissa's second ability, but if you have both, then you twice the opportunities to pump your frontline, and you also have the ability to use BOTH Nissa's second ability AND Joraga. If you've got three creatures out there, that's +39 creature damage. Given the amount of pump/damage, Joraga Invocation is actually very efficiently costed.

I like Oren Rief Hydra in a deck like this because of all the landfall potential. At the same cost, Outland Colossus is better, but I run both, not one instead of the other.

Lastly, I like Scythe Leopard. At 8 for a 4/4, he's an efficient early-game critter, and again, he benefits from all the potential landfall.

Caveat: I don't have Zendikar's Roil or Zendikar Incarnate, so I don't know how I might change my above suggestions if I did have those.

span_argoman

I would agree with finding space for Scour from Existence in the deck. Creature removal is so important in regaining board control from your opponent when you're behind.

Retreat from Kazandu is also a nice support to consider if you're getting frequent landfalls.

Honored Hierarch combos nicely with Sword of the Animist. For a similar effect, I would suggest throwing in Beastcaller Savant. That way summoning out either creature can get your ramp started. But if you're throwing in Nissa's Renewal and Bring to Light, I suggest to substitute HH for Oran-Rief Hydra or any one of the giant Eldrazi (Breaker of Armies). You will probably be overflowing in mana especially considering you have no boost to draw.

Coconut99

I used to have Hydra in my deck (I got him in my first BFZ BB, the day it launched), but took him out after a while because while he was nice, I didn't really think he was adding much and he was taking another creature slot that was competing with the other 4 creatures I had. That combined with the fact that he only counted 1 landfall per board "turn," as opposed to Roil which counts all (not sure how best to describe that...Roil would count 2 simultaneous landfalls and generate 4 tokens, whereas Hydra would only count it once and add +2/+2).

I feel like Roil and Hydra do the same thing, and while Roil only counts green while Hydra works for all, Hydra only adds +1/+1 from any landfall and +2/+2 with a green match, while Roil would effectively add +4/+4 from green matches, and between Activist and Nissa's Renewal, I hope to be flowing in green landfalls.

I agree the deck needs Scour added to it; Mantle of Webs is not as stable for creature removal, though if I can get it onto something large enough (Colossus, Incarnate, or an elemental stack, and especially if any of those are reinforced), it will ultimately remove more creatures than just Scour. I just haven't figured out how.

Sadly, I don't have Beastcaller Savant yet, or Retreat from Kazandu, though I do have Breaker of Armies, but he'd be competing for another creature slot.

So right now, based on above comments, I'm thinking...

- Honored Heirarch
- Herald of the Pantheon (I think Nissa's Renewal will give me more lifegain than Herald, since 1 Nissa = 10 supports while Herald is out)

+ Bring to Light
+ Nissa's Renewal

- Sword of the Animist?
+ Scour from Existence

That would make the deck...

Creatures (2)
Zendikar Incarnate
Outland Colossus

Spells (6)
Animist's Awakening
Mantle of Webs
Joraga Invocation
Bring to Light
Nissa's Renewal
Scour from Existence

Supports (2)
Zendikar's Roil
Nissa's Pilgrimage

Which...looks a bit overly spell-heavy, lol. With that makeup, I'd be sorely tempted to drop Nissa's Pilgrimage for Managorger, figuring he'd buff up faster/more than Hydra, with so many spells. That being said, I can still see both sides of the argument between Roil and Oran-Rief Hydra; still torn between whether to switch or have both...

Argh, woe to these 10-card limitations!

span_argoman

I didn't know Hydra had that limitation. That makes it less useful in your deck then. You definitely want big creatures for your slots though since your mana ramp should be sufficient.

By the way Nissa's deck limitation is 10/5/5 creatures/spells/supports so unfortunately your suggested decklist isn't possible.

Nissa's Pilgrimage is an important early match ramp tool. On the other hand, considering how creature-light your deck has become, you can probably drop Joraga Invocation. As it is you only have 3 creature's even including Zendikar's Roil.

Coconut99

span_argoman wrote:

I didn't know Hydra had that limitation. That makes it less useful in your deck then. You definitely want big creatures for your slots though since your mana ramp should be sufficient.

Yeah, it's one of those things that I don't think the player base is sure yet if it's intended or a bug. If you get 2 landfalls on one screen (i.e., because of Animist), it would trigger Roil twice (4 elementals), but Oran-Rief Hydra would only trigger once (+2/+2, not +4/+4). That's one of the reasons I ended up taking him out of my deck in favor of Roil; the elemental stack seemed to scale faster with landfalls.

By the way Nissa's deck limitation is 10/5/5 creatures/spells/supports so unfortunately your suggested decklist isn't possible.

Bah, I was going by the forum info, which listed +2 spells twice between 51 and 60 (my Nissa's still sitting at 51, haven't bothered to finish leveling her up...tweaking her deck was going to go hand-in-hand with leveling her up to 60 for the spell slots).

Nissa's Pilgrimage is an important early match ramp tool. On the other hand, considering how creature-light your deck has become, you can probably drop Joraga Invocation. As it is you only have 3 creature's even including Zendikar's Roil.

I know...I just use Invocation so much more now than her high-cost 2nd PW ability. I've literally had games where, thanks to ramp, I've had 3 Invocations sitting in my hand all full of mana, without ever hitting her 2nd PW ability. Her +7/+7 for that, to me, doesn't seem nearly as useful for creature pumping as Invocation, even if it would mean freeing up a slot. I'd rather use her loyalty on her 1st ability, at that rate, and hope that the additional gems cause another landfall/build more ramp. That or save for her 3rd ability.

Hmm...if I'm limited to 5 spells, maybe leave Scour from Existence out, and just count on Mantle (and the higher deck draws of Bring to Light) to get Reach creatures out? That would mean being able to slot in a 3rd creature in case I get poor draws (no 3rd creature or no Roil)...either Managorger or Oran-Rief, so that either way the creature will grow in size. Without Heirarch, though, that leaves me lacking any natural defenders/reach. Sigh. Maybe something that fits less, but at least fills that role--Breaker of Armies (berserker), Citadel Castellan (vigilance), or something like Blisterpod (just to take a hit, die, and then spawn another vigilance 1/1 Eldrazi Scion drone)...something like that (though at that rate, I'd just put Heirarch back in, for the additional mana if he lives a couple turns). Hmm...argh! If only I had Dwynen or Skysnare Spider!

span_argoman

Yeah I guess with the surplus mana Joraga's Invocation can be quite useful. If you're really insistent on a defender without Dwynen and Skysnare, you can always use Dwynen's Elite as a decent substitute. Breaker of Armies isn't half bad either.

In my experience with Managorger Hydra, even with a Kiora deck spamming spells like no tomorrow with Day's Undoing the growth rate isn't great. I get it up sometimes to 20+/20+ but it's more around 11/11 in most cases by game end. You're probably better served with Dwynen's Elite, Skyrider Elf or Woodland Wanderer as a defender.

soultwist

Creatures (3)
Outland Colossus
Skysnare Spider
Oran-Rief Hydra

Spells (3)
Nissa's Revelation
Animist's Awakening
Mantle of Webs

Supports (4)
Nissa's Pilgrimage
Fertile Thicket
Sword of the Animist
Zendikar's Roil

Joraga's Invocation is one I have but have never tried and I have been thinking of working it in, maybe I will try for Sword as suggested above. I have tried removing Mantle of webs in the past and I missed it a lot. Maybe I will try to swap out Oran too for a little while, he does pump up pretty good but it isn't consistent.

Coconut99

Wish I had Fertile Ticket...stupid missing common/uncommons!

Luckily, I managed to score a Dwynen in my free 3-pack yesterday morning. Woohoo! So, looking at this now...

Creatures (3)
Zendikar Incarnate
Outland Colossus
Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf

Spells (5)
Animist's Awakening
Mantle of Webs
Joraga Invocation
Bring to Light
Nissa's Renewal

Supports (2)
Zendikar's Roil
Nissa's Pilgrimage

Lotrfreak200578

Ok so this may not be the best build out there but it gets me to win at least 95 percent of the time. It's a mana gem/ landfall deck. and the only time I lost out of my last 100 battles at full health with this deck was against a Kiora deck that had just about every mythic you could spend your money on. So here it goes....

Creatures:
-Dwyen, Gilt-Leaf Daen
-Undergrowth Champion
-Oran-Reaf Hydra
-Herald of the Pantheon

Spells
-Animist's Awakening
-Joraga Invocation

Supports
-Retreat to Kazandu
-Sword of the Animist's
-Nissa's Pilgrimage
-Fertile Thicket

The main green card I want now is Nissa's Renewal. I'd love to combo from animist's awakening into nissa's renewal with undergrowth champion and oran-Reaf hydra out