Tanking - Developers' view?

Unknown

What's particularly annoying about the current scaling is that my actions are mostly irrelevant. Last night I opened sudan and it was all easy/normal, but I didn't have time to play. This morning I open sudan to actually play, and all the non-required-character nodes are deadly and not doable by me. What kind of craziness is this??? I haven't even done them once, yet the system has decided to upgrade them from easy/normal to deadly.

That's a pretty ridiculous system that penalizes players for not being at the beck & call of a game.

Unknown

Celerity wrote:

I don't know about tanking, but I've been playing this event a lot more casually than usual, and I notice most of my missions are in the low 100's rather than 230 all the time. Some missions are still all 230's, but I guess the original Hulk event was that way too. I don't think the scaling is that bad if you're taking longer breaks between sessions.

Admittedly, I was pretty pissed at first when my nodes went from 15 to 230 almost instantly. However, around the 2nd or third event, I was seeing mid-high 100s and low 200s. Unlike the BP event, I found that I can defeat these all unboosted (and without stun tactics) consistently. It's been presenting me with a fair challenge rather than cakewalk or impossible situation, and I like that a lot. I don't know if the mechanics are working better or if my team has just improved enough to make it feasible, but as of right now the scaling is working very well for me.

Twysta

as much as I understand why they've put in scaling it just doesn't work for me and it's a lot less fun.
Half the time you're more concerned about enemy levels than playing.

I actually play a lot less and restrict myself to one clear, where without I'd be doing at least two.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

One of our main problems that we're dialing in on, and the reason some of you are hitting scaling when you "shouldn't", is that the system allows for players that play well but within the manner in which they "should" play. It doesn't do so well with people that play at superhuman (relative to the general playerbase) levels where they're winning matches every time quickly with no/little damage for whatever reason. Basically, if you're at the far end of the bell curve, you get hit harder then have a harder time recovering once you're there. That's bad.

Thanks for posting, it makes me feel a little better. It's really frustrating to get hit repeatedly with the big stick, without any explanation whether this is intentional or not. Please consider providing information like this more often, as early as possible. While it doesn't change anything about the current situation, even knowing that the current situation is not deemed perfect and subject to change helps.

For what it's worth, I've adopted the practice of intentionally losing fights, in huge numbers. It's incredibly tedious, compared to continually facing level 230 opponents it's still the lesser of two evils.

Twysta

I'm pretty sure the devs realize (I know Ice does) that although tanking isn't ideal and not really the manner in which the game should be played, is kind of necessary to balance out the scaling sometimes.
It's just one of those things I guess.

Personally scaling seems a lot more trouble than it's worth and they would surely be better off just ditching it and focusing their time more on other things rather than constantly having to manage the scaling and shutting out players from being able to play.

Unknown

Twysta wrote:

Personally scaling seems a lot more trouble than it's worth and they would surely be better off just ditching it and focusing their time more on other things rather than constantly having to manage the scaling and shutting out players from being able to play.

Smells like having one lead designer who can't back out from the idea without admitting it is a failure and so many people around told so way ahead. And others' suffering will not kick on his ****, so it stays.

Twysta

I think it works while the game is still relatively new and you have lots of newbies playing who don't feel the full effects of it.
But it prevents and discourages more of the established players from playing.

Personally I think it's probably more trouble than it's worth and they'd be better just to get rid of it and focus their time and effort on other things.

Unknown

How hard would it be to implement multiple brackets. 3 per event. 1* bracket. 2* bracket. 3* bracket. and a mix bracket of 2 and 3. You enter one bracket your locked out of the rest and the rewards fit the bracket. Easier brackets less reward. Harder one bigger reward. That way everyone can play and enjoy.

Want a challenge this week. Play in 3*. Want to have a off week. Play the 1* bracket. The fit all into one hole isn't working.

Unknown

Oletheos wrote:

How hard would it be to implement multiple brackets. 3 per event. 1* bracket. 2* bracket. 3* bracket. and a mix bracket of 2 and 3. You enter one bracket your locked out of the rest and the rewards fit the bracket. Easier brackets less reward. Harder one bigger reward. That way everyone can play and enjoy.

Want a challenge this week. Play in 3*. Want to have a off week. Play the 1* bracket. The fit all into one hole isn't working.

We suggested such things several times -- obviously way too easy to get actually considered, and does not fit in the game philosophy that wants to maximize game play length, health loss while minimize fun and sense of fairness.

morgh

Having nodes with 210 level champions while my HIGHEST level hero is Thor at 85 seems to just be bad game design :S

Unknown

The thing is, there was a form of scaling in the earlier events, as missions got progressively harder and harder. There would always be easy missions, always be challenging missions, and, except for those at the very top, there would always be impossible missions. And that was ok. The first Hulk event was where I started to really use Wolverine (he was level maxed at 14th level when it started and maybe 40th at the end), I got my Hulk up to 4/0/2 from the two events, my first 3* that I was able to level up at all, and I got a ton of ISO and leveled up a bunch of characters. I finished top 10,000 in both, barely the first time, almost cracking the top 5,000 the second. And it remains probably my favorite event, despite my frustration and not getting a Punisher out of it.

This one - and it's likely that it's because my playstyle is to let me take a ton of damage and then go heal in the prologue - while the scaling is manageable, I'm fighting many fewer matches and having a lot less fun. I'm actually doing much better - I've been going between 400th and 700th place since yesterday, and I'll probably blow past the top progression award today - but I'm pretty much ready for it to be over. I'm fighting everything at the beginning before scaling goes crazy, but only really refighting the main map (which is worth about 4,500 in total) and the Black Panther missions (which have been worth over 3,000 on their own at times). There's always a few missions that hit functionally impossible fairly quickly, but it's worth burning a few boosts to get a single mission that might jump me 100 places in the rankings.

Unknown

The real problem with scaling is mid tier players are fighting the same 230 level AI as the players with lvl 141+ teams. So scaling effectively stops around that lvl 85-100 lvl which makes no sense. If you're going to work over the mid tier players, feel free to start throwing lvl 600 Juggy's at max level players. Oh and make sure they still get 20iso for their efforts too. Cause we all love that.

Unknown

Jachdo wrote:

Celerity wrote:

I don't know about tanking, but I've been playing this event a lot more casually than usual, and I notice most of my missions are in the low 100's rather than 230 all the time. Some missions are still all 230's, but I guess the original Hulk event was that way too. I don't think the scaling is that bad if you're taking longer breaks between sessions.

Admitted, I was pretty pissed at first when my nodes went from 15 to 230 almost instantly. However, around the 2nd or third event, I was seeing mid-high 100s and low 200s. Unlike the BP event, I found that I can defeat these all unboosted (and without stun tactics) consistently. It's been presenting me with a fair challenge rather than cakewalk or impossible situation, and I like that a lot. I don't know if the mechanics are working better or if my team has just improved enough to make it feasible, but as of right now the scaling is working very well for me.

Ditto here, I was pretty much losing interest the first two days, then the same thing happened (lvl ranging from 80 to low 200), challenging but doable. Scaling is getting better and better. Icing on the cake, there is no need to grind, at all (granted, I am not running for top positions). Keep up the good work!

Unknown

Levels had been reasonable through the rest of the tournament for me (varied between about 120 and 230), but have been gradually creeping up and every single mission is level 229/230 in the 2 most recent subs. Teams without any maxed out 2* characters can still place top in subs/main bracket fairly easily it seems. Sucks a bit, but at least they make it easier for everyone else to reach progression rewards with max rubber-banding.

Zifna

IceIX wrote:

That's taken into account by the initial scaling, yes. You see minion groups sitting at say, 150 while a named group sits at 60-ish, adjusted up or down depending on the concept for difficulty of any given group.

I see! I really appreciate the time you have taken to engage with us on this. Scaling does seem a lot better in this latest event (not perfect, but a lot better), so keep up the good work and all.

MarvelMan

SUPERTOM wrote:

The real problem with scaling is mid tier players are fighting the same 230 level AI as the players with lvl 141+ teams. So scaling effectively stops around that lvl 85-100 lvl which makes no sense. If you're going to work over the mid tier players, feel free to start throwing lvl 600 Juggy's at max level players. Oh and make sure they still get 20iso for their efforts too. Cause we all love that.

This is pretty much what Im seeing as well. Gave me a good chuckle.

MarvelMan

Back to the topic, somewhat, what is going on with tanking? In the LR that just wrapped up I shot to ~200 (18x) and blasted the seed team with my tanks (lvl 6 MN.Mag, lvl 6 Bag and lvl 15 loki). It was over 45 min before the end of the round....not a single bite. I ended up top 250. WTH!?!

Twysta

A lot of the community couldn't see any events so player base was pretty dimished for the last LR.

Unknown

Ben Grimm wrote:

The thing is, there was a form of scaling in the earlier events, as missions got progressively harder and harder. There would always be easy missions, always be challenging missions, and, except for those at the very top, there would always be impossible missions. And that was ok. The first Hulk event was where I started to really use Wolverine (he was level maxed at 14th level when it started and maybe 40th at the end), I got my Hulk up to 4/0/2 from the two events, my first 3* that I was able to level up at all, and I got a ton of ISO and leveled up a bunch of characters. I finished top 10,000 in both, barely the first time, almost cracking the top 5,000 the second. And it remains probably my favorite event, despite my frustration and not getting a Punisher out of it.

This one - and it's likely that it's because my playstyle is to let me take a ton of damage and then go heal in the prologue - while the scaling is manageable, I'm fighting many fewer matches and having a lot less fun. I'm actually doing much better - I've been going between 400th and 700th place since yesterday, and I'll probably blow past the top progression award today - but I'm pretty much ready for it to be over. I'm fighting everything at the beginning before scaling goes crazy, but only really refighting the main map (which is worth about 4,500 in total) and the Black Panther missions (which have been worth over 3,000 on their own at times). There's always a few missions that hit functionally impossible fairly quickly, but it's worth burning a few boosts to get a single mission that might jump me 100 places in the rankings.

I agree with you 100%. I also enjoyed those earlier events for PVE that did not do scaling, but did have different nodes having set, different difficulties. The top players can fight the top nodes and lower, the midtier can fight the midtier nodes and lower, noobs fight the low nodes. I think it was the Ares event that did this in a perfect way. Add in the rubberbanding rewards the way they work now and you have yourself a near perfect system that does not discourage people from playing, allows people to have fun at their own pace, and rewards people higher for fighting harder nodes.

mouser

MarvelMan wrote:

Back to the topic, somewhat, what is going on with tanking? In the LR that just wrapped up I shot to ~200 (18x) and blasted the seed team with my tanks (lvl 6 MN.Mag, lvl 6 Bag and lvl 15 loki). It was over 45 min before the end of the round....not a single bite. I ended up top 250. WTH!?!

There was an issue that prevented a large portion of the players from accessing that LR. See the "events missing" thread.