PVP frustration

Cdubb1975

PVP Is broken. Woke up this morning at 1200 points(ranked 43) needing 100 more for the 25 cp reward. 2 hours left in my slice. I Can only que championed Rulk & level 400+ OML teams or countless teams worth only 5 - 15 points. After a very long battle I win vs Rulk & OML. Shield up, come back in 30 minutes. At this point I need 37 points to reach 1300. Same story, I know a prolonged battle with shield down is going to expose me but what choice do I have? I fight, lose, and get hit for another - 100 points. So frustrating. Nothing on my roster is above 276. Why are my opponents way out of my league, or the opponents equal to my roster worth single digit points?

Quebbster

Because the opponents on your level are either shielded or far below you on the scoreboard. Finding good matches can take a lot of time and cost a lot of ISO.

Daiches

Why didn't you just Q up high value targets during your shielded period?
Either from known high scoring players as they hop or from your own allies that you know will be good for points?

Are you trying to play the co-op format known as Versus solo?

SnowcaTT

I was attacked three times overnight while sitting at 400 (champed Rhulk, ~76,000 life on team). I moved back to 400 and can still find primarily max Rhulk/375+ OML's.

That's because at 400 I'm in the T50 with 15 hours remaining. PVP -is- broken....but that score vs. placement is the reason why.

What is broken is the 5*'s are still being allowed in PVP where 3*'s are the normal. They can run what are essentially "seed" teams all the way through the tourney and float high, even the max/buffed 4*'s mean nothing to them.

This means that everyone is starting later and later - if you are a 3* team, why let the 5* run over you for 2.5 days? Each season more of the push is coming later and later in the events, the PVP's are quickly turning into Lightning Rounds (again).

The broken part is the need to let early points matter, as well as making point losses not so common/severe.

Cdubb1975

@ daiches - I was searching while shielded, it was same 3 or 4 opponents that offered points, rest were 5 -15 points. I couldn't get a top 10 guy to que. I spent hundreds of iso searching while shielded.

Unfortunately I do most all of my pvp solo. My busy work schedule & 3 kids handcuffs me to when I can play. Hard to coordinate.

halirin

The fact that you're busy is the reason why you should coordinate. If you have limitless time you can eventually find targets on your own. Otherwise you work with others and let them tell you when targets are available in your slice.

There's a wide range of battle chats out there. Some might be picky about who you hit and when, but in 5DA we just call out juicy targets and don't hit other 5DA members. I usually play solo and stop at or before 1k, but when I'm going for 1.3, the BC is invaluable for queuing efficiently.

I'm sure people can help you find a group that meets your specific constraints, but I'd reiterate that the whole point of working with other people is to get the results you want with less time and more flexibility.

Art Flash

Cdubb1975 wrote:

@ daiches - I was searching while shielded, it was same 3 or 4 opponents that offered points, rest were 5 -15 points. I couldn't get a top 10 guy to que. I spent hundreds of iso searching while shielded.

I know the feeling. This was what I was running into as well. Despite being only about 600 points into an event (top 10 players were well over 1500 by the end) I consistently could only find either low point nodes, or the same three or four opponents. Originally I thought it was just the same team composition until I started paying attention to the names. I skipped around while shielded about 15-20 times, reloaded the game, and even tried at a few different times to little change. If this isn't some sort of network glitch then the game comes across as rigged in such a way that unless you lock in a high point value early and then shield for the rest of the time or spend hours grinding (and likely risk getting attacked and negating the point gain regardless), then you'll get locked out of high placement.

Similarly, when I would beat one of these 3-4 people, they would still cycle as my seemingly sole high point options, forcing me to attack the same individuals repeatedly, which I imagine, if they are not shielded, must have been frustrating.

So I'm not sure if this was an intended mechanism or not, but it sure leaves me feeling like I've hit a wall.

Jarvind

aesthetocyst wrote:

Cdubb1975 wrote:

PVP Is broken. Woke up this morning at 1200 points(ranked 43) needing 100 more for the 25 cp reward. 2 hours left in my slice....

Unless you're rolling 550s, trying to hit your goal in the last 4hrs is a plan to fail. The targets you are looking for are shielded and done long ago.

You should only be playing in the last 4hrs if you're already hit your goals, aren't concerned about points, like mixing it up, and like farming PVP for iso.

Time your play differently. Pick a later slice and use an 8hr shield to create your own end time.

While that is generally good advice, I do want to chime in here that I have never used Line or coordinated shield hops with anyone, and when I hit 1300 (probably 40-50% of pvp events) it's almost always in the last 3 hours. I might have to muscle through a couple of lousy maxed/boosted 4* fights but I've found "cupcake" matches (god I hate that term) as well.

EDIT: To clarify, I have all of what are generally considered the best 4* characters champed, but my highest 5* is OML who I just leveled from 285 to 325 yesterday after scoring a couple covers. The rest of my 5* characters are sitting at the base 255.

Faklaw

Trying to do pvp without HP to waste on shields is an effort in frustration.

TxMoose

Faklaw wrote:

Trying to do pvp without HP to waste on shields is an effort in frustration.

this. when I got to the point mentally where I knew I'd spend 2-4 shields per pvp and got a full 4* team champed, that is when I started consistently hitting 1300. then when I figured out how the different slices worked within my avialble times to play (usually lunch and evenings), I started scoring much higher. if you're going to use 2 shields, try timing your push at 9-10 hours from event end. hop at 7-8 hours out, usually 3 quick matches. and then decide if that 3rd is necessary towards the end. if you don't have the hp for that, it will be frustrating.

Natsufan01

As someone who just recently hit 1.3k for the first time, I wanted to pass on the advice I got, and tell how I do things.

First off, once someone pointed at that the climb to 725 gives you 100hp, I was much more willing to use shields (of course you can see that, but it didn't click for me). Also, if you have a good alliance, you can easily get 50 or 100hp more per event for alliance placement. And a top 100 finish individually gives you 25 more. So 225 hp per event gained for a top 50 alliance and top 100 individual. Hitting 1300 should get you those easily. That means an 8 and a 3 shield given to you each event, and you get all the other rewards for it.

For me I join slice 4. That seems to be high points for the top 10-20. Placement above top 50 will be very difficult, but more points in the slice means a generally easier time getting progression. I join with about a day left and climb to 300-400 and stop. I expect to get hit, but now that I finally have a top tier 4* champed (Red Hulk) I usually don't. Then 10-11 hours from end, I climb as high as I can in one go. Aiming to get 800-1k before shielding. The end time is either when I decided I've pushed my luck far enough, or if I have been hit during a 2nd straight fight for about as much as I won. (example: at 900 pts, win a fight for 40 and lose 35. Fight another, win it for 45 and lose 40) 2 straight matches with a minimal net gain usually means the flood gates are opened and you're about to get hit big. Shield there and wait. I usually do a 8 hour shield there, but if the timing in real life doesn't work, then 3 hour. The reason I do 8 first, is so it is recharged in case I need to do an extra hop.

About 30 mins to 1 hour before you're shield breaks, start looking for another queue. I usually don't stop until I get three cupcakes, even if I find 40 pt matches that I can win. I'm looking for 60-75 points with low level opponents, speed is vital at that high. If three aren't found after a minute or two, stop and try again in 5 minutes, keeping any cupcakes that you find and repeating until three are found. I have spent thousands of iso to do that, but 25 command points are definitely worth spending thousands of iso for. Break shield about 10 minutes early, as long as you are close enough to the end to shield to the end. Beat your three cupcakes, and shield immediately. If all goes well, no more than 5-6 minutes unshielded. Usually that means opponents won't find you, decide to hit you, and beat you before you shield again. If that is not enough for max progression, you can search for more cc's and either break shield and re-up your 8 hr shield (assuming it's recharged) or break about 5 minutes before the end to clear them.

One thing to keep in mind, if you are in a battle chat, or if you can see your cupcakes in the individual rankings, do your best to wait until they are shielded to hit. It's the polite thing to do, since they made themselves vulnerable in order to allow everyone to score points easier.

TxMoose

just wanted to add some to nat's post:

if you have a team of maxed 4*S, you should be able to 'float' higher than 300-400. i try to maximize my float point and it is usually in the 600s somewhere. from there i can reliably make it past 1K before my first shield, usually around 1100, sometimes higher, but that is with many different combos to choose from and to be boosted (makes a difference).

i always start with a 3 hr shield. then immediately after shielding, cycle some and see if any bakers are out. check your leaderboard and if you see any out, see if you can find them in queue. check around 8 hrs out too, that is a popular hopping time. i wait 1-2 hrs, then hop and use my 8 hr. that usually is not enough to get to event end, but on the weekends (slice 1) it usually is. at that point you can get some more lined up and make a decision if that last hop is necessary or if you want to risk something at event end. at event end, i generally don't break before about the 4-minute mark. its been a long time since I've been hit at event end, so I'm thinking 4 minutes is pretty safe.

RWTDBurn

TxMoose wrote:

just wanted to add some to nat's post:

if you have a team of maxed 4*S, you should be able to 'float' higher than 300-400. i try to maximize my float point and it is usually in the 600s somewhere. from there i can reliably make it past 1K before my first shield, usually around 1100, sometimes higher, but that is with many different combos to choose from and to be boosted (makes a difference).

It all depends on what hidden bracket your are in. Once you are lumped in with the mega-whales all the time you find that even with 390 - 435 5*s you can't float above 550 for too long. It's funny how before 5*s I could float around 800 before making my climb to 1k+ in the last 13 - 16 hours and now I'm usually starting around 500. They truly have mastered the art of punishing success.

TxMoose

RWTDBurn wrote:

It all depends on what hidden bracket your are in. Once you are lumped in with the mega-whales all the time you find that even with 390 - 435 5*s you can't float above 550 for too long. It's funny how before 5*s I could float around 800 before making my climb to 1k+ in the last 13 - 16 hours and now I'm usually starting around 500. They truly have mastered the art of punishing success.

I completely agree that my float point keeps dropping, but I also seem to be able to push higher than I used to, even floating a little lower every week/month. I pushed to 1300 prior to first shield for the first time a couple weeks ago. and I don't have a 5* and don't use line. I attribute that to having the right boosted characters maxed/champed and being able to put lots of different combinations out there. I also use the characters better for faster matches than I used to as well - once you get above 800 or so, speed is everything.

even though, maxed 4*s should be able to float into the 500s, up to 600. add a champed on and it should be in the 600s, up to 700. this is kinda variable though depending on slice. slices 3 and 4 have lots of points, but lots of really strong teams that won't look at your 275s and hit skip, they'll see 275s and hit attack. so its an interesting dynamic.

658

To OP, reaching top rewards with a transitioning team has always required one to punch way over their weight class. It's actually not a new phenomenon. The big difference now being that the 5 stars are so much better than the four stars that it's even more difficult to break through. I feel your pain brah. It was poorly planned by the devs. If I were you, I'd try one the slices that have a lot of cupcakes floating around, probably 4. Without too much effort, you should be able to find high point 1 and 2 star teams and do 225 point hops in five minutes, no exaggeration.

BlackSheep101

That last point is a good one. It's not always easy to find cupcakes without line, but when you do, you'll rocket up in a single hop. If you're planning to shield hop, keep looking for targets until the last minute. Others may be able to offer better advice about when to search for them. So far I've just felt lucky to find them.

Cdubb1975

So I'm at 1003 in ironfist pvp, shielded, rank 3, 1 day & 8 hours left. I cycle through 50 opponents and only 3 are worth more than 20 points. This isn't working right!!

I never q'd a top 10 person, and two of the 3 ques worth more than 20 were same person, championed Rulk and 420 OML.

BlackSheep101

Cdubb1975 wrote:

So I'm at 1003 in ironfist pvp, shielded, rank 3, 1 day & 8 hours left. I cycle through 50 opponents and only 3 are worth more than 20 points. This isn't working right!!

I never q'd a top 10 person, and two of the 3 ques worth more than 20 were same person, championed Rulk and 420 OML.

The people hanging out above 1000 points with over a day left in the event are few. Those who do are likely shield hopping throughout, or have such a high level roster your MMR won't let you see them.

TxMoose

I like the sweet spot of 9-14 hours from event end to do my pushes. enough points in the slice, but not uber-active yet. and from there on, you can queue good targets while shielded during their hops. earlier than that and you run thin on points/targets. later than that and activity goes way up and chances of taking hits goes up. just based on my experience. this assumes you have the hp for 2-4 shields per event.