So are you guys going to crack down on bots, or not?

simonsez

This question needs to be asked, since you've decided to add the insane feature of a 20 pt minimum on nodes in the upcoming PvE test.

Whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, players were using bots to farm ISO from Prologue, with no repercussions whatsoever. The fact that you chose to lock Prologue, rather than stop bot use, doesn't fill me with any confidence whatsoever that you have any inclination of directly addressing it in PvE either.

So is this your vision for the future of PvE? Every time someone loses out on a ranking award they're were trying hard to get, they'll blame it on the people ahead of them using bots?

wirius

Don't they just get put into a sandbox? Do you for a fact know of bot players who were not sandboxed after repeated botting attempts? Its important that you actually have experienced this, and are not merely musing.

Stax the Foyer

Gari wrote:

So did mr whiner lodge a complaint or not? Hey, the cops are useless because I'm being robbed and I didn't call them

I'm not the OP but, a complaint about what? That people were botting prologue? Why? It wasn't directly affecting anyone else, and people exploiting in ways that actually affect other people is widespread enough that I'd much rather the developers focus their efforts on those exploits.

Or do you mean a Minority Report thing where we're reporting people for future cheating that hasn't happened yet?

I'm not sure you understood the point of the original post.

OneLastGambit

Stax the Foyer wrote:

Gari wrote:

So did mr whiner lodge a complaint or not? Hey, the cops are useless because I'm being robbed and I didn't call them

I'm not the OP but, a complaint about what? That people were botting prologue? Why? It wasn't directly affecting anyone else, and people exploiting in ways that actually affect other people is widespread enough that I'd much rather the developers focus their efforts on those exploits.

Or do you mean a Minority Report thing where we're reporting people for future cheating that hasn't happened yet?

I'm not sure you understood the point of the original post.

I think that perhaps Gari was alluding to the fact that often in these forums people complain about things but without actually lodging anything with CS, and instead just use the forum to vent. I don't think he's dismissing the OP point just his motivation.

simonsez

Yeah, you're all right. It'd be way better to wait and have a slew of events **** up before complaining about it, instead of proactively letting the devs know that their ill-thoughtout pve ideas plus their previous lack of concern about bots, is a recipe for disaster.

You want to call that "whining", fine. I'd call it someone who gives a **** about pve. I don't give a **** what you think about me, but try not to let that get in the way of keeping pve from getting completely **** up. I can't be the only one who cares.

Stax the Foyer

OneLastGambit wrote:

Stax the Foyer wrote:

Gari wrote:

So did mr whiner lodge a complaint or not? Hey, the cops are useless because I'm being robbed and I didn't call them

I'm not the OP but, a complaint about what? That people were botting prologue? Why? It wasn't directly affecting anyone else, and people exploiting in ways that actually affect other people is widespread enough that I'd much rather the developers focus their efforts on those exploits.

Or do you mean a Minority Report thing where we're reporting people for future cheating that hasn't happened yet?

I'm not sure you understood the point of the original post.

I think that perhaps Gari was alluding to the fact that often in these forums people complain about things but without actually lodging anything with CS, and instead just use the forum to vent. I don't think he's dismissing the OP point just his motivation.

This isn't something that can be addressed by CS. This is about a future vulnerability. Which is why I said that the point was being missed.

And if you think vets aren't constantly reporting exploiters to CS, I don't know what to tell you there.

Mawtful

It doesn't really matter though, right? Remember when people were rerolling Tokens but didn't get banned if they had "contributed to the game" (monetarily)? It'll be the same story here; botting will be difficult for them to track, but if you get caught, you'll get a slap on the wrist if you prepaid your fine.

FierceKiwi

OneLastGambit wrote:

Stax the Foyer wrote:

Gari wrote:

So did mr whiner lodge a complaint or not? Hey, the cops are useless because I'm being robbed and I didn't call them

I'm not the OP but, a complaint about what? That people were botting prologue? Why? It wasn't directly affecting anyone else, and people exploiting in ways that actually affect other people is widespread enough that I'd much rather the developers focus their efforts on those exploits.

Or do you mean a Minority Report thing where we're reporting people for future cheating that hasn't happened yet?

I'm not sure you understood the point of the original post.

I think that perhaps Gari was alluding to the fact that often in these forums people complain about things but without actually lodging anything with CS, and instead just use the forum to vent. I don't think he's dismissing the OP point just his motivation.

Lol. That's cute. Like CS actually does anything other than send the emails to /dev/null

BearVenger

There was a competitor in my usual slice who scores consistently high and runs consistently fast in PvE over multiple, multiple events and, to my knowledge, has never missed any 8-hour node refresh on the nose.

Despite having only low-levelled 5*s, champed 3*s, and lower-levelled 4*s, this guy was running faster and grinding quicker than my LINE buddies who had beastly 5* and/or champed 4* rosters.

Myself, I have a roster much like his, but with a little higher-levelled 4*s. Still, no character exceeding 194, other than six 5*s untouched at 255.

I reported the character to CS and got a "thank you, we're looking into it and closing the ticket" reply before I could reply with screenshots of this guy's speed in each sub versus its top-10 players.

I did not like the response, because I would like to know whether it was a verified human player or not, and I would like to think a number-crunching investigation would take longer.

I've lost to better, stronger, and luckier players before, and I'll lose to them as long as I'm playing MPQ. I'm okay with that. I have neither a better roster or better skill/strategy than the average player. I just don't want anyone to lose to someone who has an hacked/cracked advantage over others.

So, please, if someone's progress is far better and far more consistent than their roster warrants, pass it to CS. I'd rather them see a pattern than have them think it doesn't matter to the committed playerbase.

Polares

BearVenger wrote:

There was a competitor in my usual slice who scores consistently high and runs consistently fast in PvE over multiple, multiple events and, to my knowledge, has never missed any 8-hour node refresh on the nose.

Despite having only low-levelled 5*s, champed 3*s, and lower-levelled 4*s, this guy was running faster and grinding quicker than my LINE buddies who had beastly 5* and/or champed 4* rosters.

Myself, I have a roster much like his, but with a little higher-levelled 4*s. Still, no character exceeding 194, other than six 5*s untouched at 255.

I reported the character to CS and got a "thank you, we're looking into it and closing the ticket" reply before I could reply with screenshots of this guy's speed in each sub versus its top-10 players.

I did not like the response, because I would like to know whether it was a verified human player or not, and I would like to think a number-crunching investigation would take longer.

I've lost to better, stronger, and luckier players before, and I'll lose to them as long as I'm playing MPQ. I'm okay with that. I have neither a better roster or better skill/strategy than the average player. I just don't want anyone to lose to someone who has an hacked/cracked advantage over others.

So, please, if someone's progress is far better and far more consistent than their roster warrants, pass it to CS. I'd rather them see a pattern than have them think it doesn't matter to the committed playerbase.

I am not saying he wasn't a bot, but maybe the reason he was going faster is precisely that he was a 3 player. In new events, 3 players have a much better time in general, much more than 4 and 5 players. Enemies dont scale that much so their life pool is much smaller, they hurt you much less, etc, etc. It is the same thing that happened before with soft cappers at 94 level.


Anyway, I don't understand why devs implemented this 20 points farming. It is not going to help anyone, and can be easily exploited. But I guess it should be easy to detect (speed of the matches, number of matches for just 20 points, final score, etc.). What I don't know is if they are looking for that, but there are a lot of indicators that can point in that direction.

PeterGibbons316

BearVenger wrote:

There was a competitor in my usual slice who scores consistently high and runs consistently fast in PvE over multiple, multiple events and, to my knowledge, has never missed any 8-hour node refresh on the nose.

Despite having only low-levelled 5*s, champed 3*s, and lower-levelled 4*s, this guy was running faster and grinding quicker than my LINE buddies who had beastly 5* and/or champed 4* rosters.

Myself, I have a roster much like his, but with a little higher-levelled 4*s. Still, no character exceeding 194, other than six 5*s untouched at 255.

I reported the character to CS and got a "thank you, we're looking into it and closing the ticket" reply before I could reply with screenshots of this guy's speed in each sub versus its top-10 players.

I did not like the response, because I would like to know whether it was a verified human player or not, and I would like to think a number-crunching investigation would take longer.

I've lost to better, stronger, and luckier players before, and I'll lose to them as long as I'm playing MPQ. I'm okay with that. I have neither a better roster or better skill/strategy than the average player. I just don't want anyone to lose to someone who has an hacked/cracked advantage over others.

So, please, if someone's progress is far better and far more consistent than their roster warrants, pass it to CS. I'd rather them see a pattern than have them think it doesn't matter to the committed playerbase.

A bot wouldn't be faster than a player, a bot would be able to play at all hours of the day though. If he is clearing faster than you it's because his scaling is more favorable and/or he is better than you at this game.

BearVenger

Polares wrote:

I am not saying he wasn't a bot, but maybe the reason he was going faster is precisely that he was a 3 player. In new events, 3 players have a much better time in general, much more than 4 and 5 players. Enemies dont scale that much so their life pool is much smaller, they hurt you much less, etc, etc. It is the same thing that happened before with soft cappers at 94 level.


Anyway, I don't understand why devs implemented this 20 points farming. It is not going to help anyone, and can be easily exploited. But I guess it should be easy to detect (speed of the matches, number of matches for just 20 points, final score, etc.). What I don't know is if they are looking for that, but there are a lot of indicators that can point in that direction.

I respect what you're saying, Polaris, but I disagree with the "easier and better time" premise that 3*-leading rosters have.

I included my (3* champed) roster and my 4*/5* buddies' roster to show that this one guy was lapping everyone on the slice, regardless of roster, and doing it over a timeframe of months. When my buddies play their slice, the t5 leaders on their boards -with the exception of this specific dude- are not featuring champed 3* characters.

*This messageboard likes to focus on who's got it unfairly easier than the other guy (whales, über-whales, soft-cappers, under-levelers), but I think that those problems are snaller than the ones that the playerbase faces as a whole, and the player-specific ones will settle themselves out over time.*

I suspected someone maybe had removed animations or was gaining other outside assistance to be so darn fast. If he's 100% human, I'm cool. Otherwise, I support anything that looks anomalous.

xdogg

Is there a way for the Devs to determine whether someone is using bots or not? This is a concern for me because I am pounding that easy 20 point node literally hundreds of times completely legally.

Malcrof

If you have any evidence of someone using a bot, or cheating in any way, please send that information to Customer Support. Make sure to include any screenshots you have. This is the only way things can be found, and corrected.

amusingfoo1

Malcrof wrote:

If you have any evidence of someone using a bot, or cheating in any way, please send that information to Customer Support. Make sure to include any screenshots you have. This is the only way things can be found, and corrected.

And to add to this, if they respond that they closed the ticket, send a response with the screenshots. It will re-open the ticket.

BearVenger

Malcrof wrote:

If you have any evidence of someone using a bot, or cheating in any way, please send that information to Customer Support. Make sure to include any screenshots you have. This is the only way things can be found, and corrected.

Malcrof, I will continue to do so, but I don't find it encouraging when CS ticket submission page (which requests screenshots) doesn't allow file submission with ticket creation and then closes said ticket as its first response.

That doesn't exactly enthuse me to respond.