Let us make "gold" characters!

Pylgrim

Perhaps not everybody here remember Gold characters. Those were a few 3*s that were created toward the beginning of the game that were simply the same version of a 2* character, made 3* (Thor, Cap America, Daken). They were not popular and Demiurge stopped making them. Thinking the other day about how sad I am about having fully championed my 2*s I came up with the idea of allowing us to "ascend" a fully championed character (paying a fee or something) into the next start tier. A 144 OBW would become a 3* and you'd have the possibility to level her up to 166 and then start championing her again! Championing is widely acknowledged as exciting and it would give us a reason to keep and use 2*s beyond DDQ and essential PVE nodes. It would also allow us to keep using our 3* characters once we are deeply into 4* land were they, sadly, are not good anymore, and so on.

What do you people think?

firethorne

I like the idea. But, I think it would also be bound to cause some strange bad consequences. I have no doubt I would be able to get 500 of any particular 2* cover before I'll get any "true" 5* fully covered. So, it probably would just make the meta 2*+++ Thor-Storm-Magneto everywhere, with an occasional OML or Goblin sighting.

TheWerebison

As neat an idea as it sounds, I doubt it could ever be implemented, for 2 reasons that spring immediately to mind.

1) Juggernaut exists
2) 1* and 2* covers drop very quickly. If a system like this were to be implemented, it would not be at all difficult to have max champed 4* versions of those classes. D3 would have to do some crazy restructuring to make sure some of our 2* favorites didn't massively overshadow the higher tiers they've created, as they often do in Balance of Power.

But boy, that'd be cool. I like Ares, and hate seeing the God of War sitting in 2* territory.

Pylgrim

TheWerebison wrote:

As neat an idea as it sounds, I doubt it could ever be implemented, for 2 reasons that spring immediately to mind.

1) Juggernaut exists
2) 1* and 2* covers drop very quickly. If a system like this were to be implemented, it would not be at all difficult to have max champed 4* versions of those classes. D3 would have to do some crazy restructuring to make sure some of our 2* favorites didn't massively overshadow the higher tiers they've created, as they often do in Balance of Power.

But boy, that'd be cool. I like Ares, and hate seeing the God of War sitting in 2* territory.

Yeah probably 1*s should remain unable to champion, ascend and everything else. Maybe for other tiers disallow "double ascension"? i.e. a 2* cannot ever become a 4*. The only problem remaining is that yes, a "gold" 2* maxed would be able to get champion covers much quicker than a real 3*. First solution that jumps to mind would be that 1 cover =/= 1 champion level. Progression bars for levels already exist (when you are levelling up with iso) so it shouldn't be too hard to implement that a 2* cover is, I dunno, an eighth of a level for a championed gold character?

TheWerebison

Pylgrim wrote:

TheWerebison wrote:

As neat an idea as it sounds, I doubt it could ever be implemented, for 2 reasons that spring immediately to mind.

1) Juggernaut exists
2) 1* and 2* covers drop very quickly. If a system like this were to be implemented, it would not be at all difficult to have max champed 4* versions of those classes. D3 would have to do some crazy restructuring to make sure some of our 2* favorites didn't massively overshadow the higher tiers they've created, as they often do in Balance of Power.

But boy, that'd be cool. I like Ares, and hate seeing the God of War sitting in 2* territory.

Yeah probably 1*s should remain unable to champion, ascend and everything else. Maybe for other tiers disallow "double ascension"? i.e. a 2* cannot ever become a 4*. The only problem remaining is that yes, a "gold" 2* maxed would be able to get champion covers much quicker than a real 3*. First solution that jumps to mind would be that 1 cover =/= 1 champion level. Progression bars for levels already exist (when you are levelling up with iso) so it shouldn't be too hard to implement that a 2* cover is, I dunno, an eighth of a level for a championed gold character?

That'd be pretty cool. A 2* making it up to a champed 3* doesn't sound like it'd be too broken.

cardoor

Pylgrim wrote:

TheWerebison wrote:

As neat an idea as it sounds, I doubt it could ever be implemented, for 2 reasons that spring immediately to mind.

1) Juggernaut exists
2) 1* and 2* covers drop very quickly. If a system like this were to be implemented, it would not be at all difficult to have max champed 4* versions of those classes. D3 would have to do some crazy restructuring to make sure some of our 2* favorites didn't massively overshadow the higher tiers they've created, as they often do in Balance of Power.

But boy, that'd be cool. I like Ares, and hate seeing the God of War sitting in 2* territory.

Yeah probably 1*s should remain unable to champion, ascend and everything else. Maybe for other tiers disallow "double ascension"? i.e. a 2* cannot ever become a 4*. The only problem remaining is that yes, a "gold" 2* maxed would be able to get champion covers much quicker than a real 3*. First solution that jumps to mind would be that 1 cover =/= 1 champion level. Progression bars for levels already exist (when you are levelling up with iso) so it shouldn't be too hard to implement that a 2* cover is, I dunno, an eighth of a level for a championed gold character?

Seems reasonable. I guess the other issue would be the scaling of 2* vs 3*. Lazy Ares (larry?) would be insane at 255.

hodayathink

Even though the Balance of power event Goes all the way to 550, I think it shows fairly well how the tiers scale against each other. And it shows that even if they allowed this, most 3* would still be better than most 2* post-championing patch. And 4* would pretty much all clearly be better.

Pylgrim

cardoor wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

TheWerebison wrote:

As neat an idea as it sounds, I doubt it could ever be implemented, for 2 reasons that spring immediately to mind.

1) Juggernaut exists
2) 1* and 2* covers drop very quickly. If a system like this were to be implemented, it would not be at all difficult to have max champed 4* versions of those classes. D3 would have to do some crazy restructuring to make sure some of our 2* favorites didn't massively overshadow the higher tiers they've created, as they often do in Balance of Power.

But boy, that'd be cool. I like Ares, and hate seeing the God of War sitting in 2* territory.

Yeah probably 1*s should remain unable to champion, ascend and everything else. Maybe for other tiers disallow "double ascension"? i.e. a 2* cannot ever become a 4*. The only problem remaining is that yes, a "gold" 2* maxed would be able to get champion covers much quicker than a real 3*. First solution that jumps to mind would be that 1 cover =/= 1 champion level. Progression bars for levels already exist (when you are levelling up with iso) so it shouldn't be too hard to implement that a 2* cover is, I dunno, an eighth of a level for a championed gold character?

Seems reasonable. I guess the other issue would be the scaling of 2* vs 3*. Lazy Ares (larry?) would be insane at 255.

My 144 2*s buff up to 220 when featured in PVE and they're not overpowered at all. In fact, being 2*s, they have waaay lower HP than a 3* or 4* of the same level would. That would be one thing improved by making them go 3*: A better HP curve.

Wolarsen

We all seem to agree that it should use a very careful tweaking, but i fond the idea absoltely thrilling.
While championing, i welcomed every 2* cover, as it gave me the feel of actual progression, and now i miss it.

JVReal

Of course if they did that, they'd have to simultaneously nerf their stats so that you have fully champ the upgrade to get them to the same power level they were before... but hey, you'll have a place to put those extra covers in the meantime, with some pretty little iso and token rewards.

Malcrof

Level 266 Storm may break 5k health! Love this idea!

Berserk_Al

If it's for finding use for the 2star covers once the champions are full, maybe add the option to "reset" a full champion (would it have a cost or would we receive a bonus for doing it?), maybe doubling the ISO champion rewards of that character after the first reset.

Or making it so, after you sell a max championed character, you can recruit it again in the future using a single cover, and comes at lv 94 and with 13 covers. But that would have the problem that people would stop buying roster slots, as they would only need one rotating slot for all their 2star essentials once they finish championing all of them.

Pylgrim

Berserk Al wrote:

If it's for finding use for the 2star covers once the champions are full, maybe add the option to "reset" a full champion (would it have a cost or would we receive a bonus for doing it?), maybe doubling the ISO champion rewards of that character after the first reset.

Or making it so, after you sell a max championed character, you can recruit it again in the future using a single cover, and comes at lv 94 and with 13 covers. But that would have the problem that people would stop buying roster slots, as they would only need one rotating slot for all their 2star essentials once they finish championing all of them.

I also had that idea at some point, but I realised it came at the cost of making characters that you almost never get the chance to use again (2*s) worse all over again. Allowing them to go higher and keep growing would mean that they can keep being relevant, increasing roster diversity.

puppychow

Pylgrim wrote:

A 144 OBW would become a 3* and you'd have the possibility to level her up to 166 and then start championing her again! Championing is widely acknowledged as exciting and it would give us a reason to keep and use 2*s beyond DDQ and essential PVE nodes.

I agreed w/ you up to this part of your post. The problem is that if you "ascend" any character to tier, then you would have one less playable character to use for the two ddq nodes limited to characters only. And if the enemies happen to be characters on your roster, then that reduces your options even further.

I wouldn't mind having the option to pay a fee (either iso or hp) to make the character "shiny." But ascending to a different tier, I think, could become an issue for players who clear all the ddq nodes.

Twysta

You guys do know that if they did this, they would nerf everyone so that when the 2* hit's max level whatever. Their stats would be same as they are now.

...and their abilities would do even less damage.

Linkster79

In a way I thought this was how the champion system would work when it was first announced. Get you 2* characters to level 166 and they would almost be as powerful as a 3* character, get a 3* to level 270 and they would give the 4*'s a real run for their money. I assumed this because for years this is how AI scaling in story events worked, instead we got a massive nerf to the 3* tier whilst giving the 4* tier a boost.

OneLastGambit

For the reasons mentioned above I sit on the fence about the idea of continued levelling.

I do think we need to do something with extra covers my 2*s were max champed about 3 weeks after the feature became active now they are back to being 250iso again.

Why not have extra covers generate a random reward instead of just being 250 iso. Then you can keep using the covers but Itbdoesnt upset the current tier structure

Pylgrim

puppychow wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

A 144 OBW would become a 3* and you'd have the possibility to level her up to 166 and then start championing her again! Championing is widely acknowledged as exciting and it would give us a reason to keep and use 2*s beyond DDQ and essential PVE nodes.

I agreed w/ you up to this part of your post. The problem is that if you "ascend" any character to tier, then you would have one less playable character to use for the two ddq nodes limited to characters only. And if the enemies happen to be characters on your roster, then that reduces your options even further.

I wouldn't mind having the option to pay a fee (either iso or hp) to make the character "shiny." But ascending to a different tier, I think, could become an issue for players who clear all the ddq nodes.

Good point. However I think it wouldn't be too hard to technically keeping them 2*s (for DDQ purposes) while allowing them to have the upgrading path of a 3*.

Twysta wrote:

You guys do know that if they did this, they would nerf everyone so that when the 2* hit's max level whatever. Their stats would be same as they are now.

...and their abilities would do even less damage.

There's really no need for this. I know what they did with the 3*s set a precedent for terrible expectations but the truth is that all tiers got their curves fixed towards a maximum state (which can be appreciated in the Balance of Power PVP). If you played in it, you surely noticed that while greatly powered up over their normal maximums, 2*s were still significantly weaker (and had MUCH less HP) than 3* and 4*s of the same level. In other words, they don't need nerfing.

OneLastGambit wrote:

Why not have extra covers generate a random reward instead of just being 250 iso. Then you can keep using the covers but Itbdoesnt upset the current tier structure

The problem of random rewards is that they would add some rewards better than 250 Iso and some worse. And I'm not sure they would make the better rewards good enough to take the sting out whenever you get only 100 Iso or so out of your 2* cover.