So here's Kiora at 60

Plastic

http://imgur.com/hkGP3uE

I didn't purchase her, but somebody shared this information. Seriously OP.

EDUSAN

1st skill looks like a part blue and part green skill

but the other 2 skills look too much like plain green skills

a 32/32 reach and trample for 24 loyalty? what is blue in that?

seems a bit too powerfull

shteev

'Oh hi, Gideon! What does your ultimate do?'
'Well, if I cast it on a creature, it attacks for an extra *6* damage a turn!'
'6, huh? That's cute...'

madwren

Yeah, she seems very powerful immediately. I'm a bit nervous that we suddenly have a very powerful-seeming planeswalker, and the price went from $14.99 to $49.99.

Meto5000

EDUSAN wrote:

1st skill looks like a part blue and part green skill

but the other 2 skills look too much like plain green skills

a 32/32 reach and trample for 24 loyalty? what is blue in that?

seems a bit too powerfull

A few numbers to dwell on:

In Origins, the best cost per power creature isOutland Colossus, a 12/12 with no abilities (other than renown) for 15 mana

In BFZ the best cost per power creature is Desolation Twin, 2x10/10s no ability creatures for 21 mana

Kiora produces a 32/32 creature for 24 loyalty that has both Reach AND Trample.

Since only loyalty gems give loyalty mana it's significantly harder to acquire loyalty mana quickly, however I have a feeling the cost is still too low for her ultimate. A 32/32 creature that ignores defenders with its Trample ability and defends with Reach would probably have an equivalent mana cost of 50 or more. I can't think of another Planeswalker Ultimate that will effectively win you the game by itself more than this one.

HomeRn

Meto5000 wrote:

Kiora produces a 32/32 creature for 24 loyalty that has both Reach AND Trample.

Since only loyalty gems give loyalty mana it's significantly harder to acquire loyalty mana quickly, however I have a feeling the cost is still too low for her ultimate. A 32/32 creature that ignores defenders with its Trample ability and defends with Reach would probably have an equivalent mana cost of 50 or more. I can't think of another Planeswalker Ultimate that will effectively win you the game by itself more than this one.

Then again... every deck now has a 12 mana removal spell; which means if they have it ready - Kiora's going to be out 24 loyalty. Not the best trade... that and I'm seeing that card a LOT in my recent QB's.

EDHdad

Kiora will never reach her ultimate against me. First, the AI will probably just spam the first ability. Second, I'll be hitting the back button every time I'm up against her.

Plastic

EDHdad wrote:

Kiora will never reach her ultimate against me. First, the AI will probably just spam the first ability. Second, I'll be hitting the back button every time I'm up against her.

I think you can skip step one in this process.

Coconut99

Meto5000 wrote:

Since only loyalty gems give loyalty mana it's significantly harder to acquire loyalty mana quickly, however I have a feeling the cost is still too low for her ultimate. A 32/32 creature that ignores defenders with its Trample ability and defends with Reach would probably have an equivalent mana cost of 50 or more. I can't think of another Planeswalker Ultimate that will effectively win you the game by itself more than this one.

That's not entirely accurate. All gem matches give loyalty mana; loyalty gems just give it much faster/more directly. You gain loyalty mana matching any color gems, though. That being said, 32/32 trample/reach is pretty crazy, especially compared to original PW ultimate abilities (Chandra caps out at a one-time 25 damage for 21 mana, for example, and even Garruk caps out at 12/12 for 15 mana). Kiora's octopi stack will have 1.3 power/toughness per loyalty mana, not even accounting for trample and reach, and that's a creature that'll just keep damaging (especially with trample) every turn until it does or gets bounced/removed. Chandra's ultimate only does 1.19 damage/mana one time only, and Garruk's stack is only 0.8 power/toughness per mana, which is also the same as Outland Colossus for efficiency. Counting Desolation Twin together, that's only a 0.95 p/t per mana efficiency ratio.

So, yeah, that's a potentially OP stack there...the only good thing is, yeah, the AI will pretty much never hit it absent one MASSIVE cascade (or several massive cascades in a row).

Morphis

To be honest I am more concerned with the fact she has access to 2 different colors and has +3 in 2 of them.

Have you played the fight in expansion story where the cpu uses exert influence, nissa renewal and the support that gives 10 mana and summon elementals when you match 5?
That is some serious non stop stuff.... It did summon a 30/30 haste elemental out of nowhere....

Coconut99

Eep...don't think so, and if I haven't, not looking forward to it...I'm only up to Barrage Tyrant (Ch. 3, Battle 3), stuck on that one atm (his spells and 10 dmg to creature ability have just been decimating me).

shteev

Kiora seems kinda worthy of a nerf, but can that ever happen?

If you spend £40 (or regional equivalent) on just this one single planewalker* for her power level, and then her power level gets busted down, how pissed off are you going to be? It's one thing to spend money on a random selection of cards, but isn't it quite another to buy a specific one and find out later it's power is decimated??

I'll be honest, tho, I don't play a whole lot of pay to win mobile games, so I don't know how they handle situations like these usually.





(*obviously you get a fackpack full of unplayable commons, too)

loroku

There's kind of a check list of "stuff not to do" in FtP games. One is: "release an obvious pay-to-win." Players tend not to react well.

(I don't think it's on the list, but "then nerf it back into the ground after the players have paid a premium" is probably also pretty obvious.)

span_argoman

If we're talking about QB though, the question is not how strong but how fast Kiora will be. Her abilities look strong but they don't look like they will speed up the game as much as Chandra's do. Sure the 32/32 is scary big but in most Chandra matches the game would have been close to over by then.