Free for all: Juggernaut and Thor combo. AI makes bad moves.

Unknown

When I first saw the 200% buff to Juggernaut in this tournament, I imagined him to be a defensive powerhouse that would make opponents think twice about attacking me. I dumped all of my iso into raising his level and began working my way up the ranks with my combination of c.Storm, Thor, Juggernaut.

Yesterday, I noticed that Headbutt was preferred over my Thor's Mjolnir's Might (as it should be since it was doing 2,000 more damage) and it was given the one click preferred treatment. That changed today though. Now, Mjolnir's Might is recognized as the better move and given the one click activation which is weird to me. I got worried that I wasted thousands of iso raising Juggernauts level only to have the AI not use his abilities when opponents go up against me.

Sure enough, I quickly came across a team running Thor and Juggernaut and my worries were confirmed. The AI would use Thor's 6 red AP Mjolnir's Might for 700 damage over my opponent's max level Juggernaut's 3k hits... Why the sudden change? Is this just a one off incident or have other people seen the same thing?

It's really bumming me out because I thought I had a good chance at getting in the top 25 with this strategy planned out and now I feel like I've wasted nearly 10k iso on Juggernaut...

Unknown

In theory Thor's ability is better because it does not inflict damage to himself like juggernaut's head butt

Unknown

Badman82 wrote:

In theory Thor's ability is better because it does not inflict damage to himself like juggernaut's head butt

And in addition Thor's ability creates yellow tiles which feeds his other ability (or other characters' abilities), so it's really hard to say which one is strictly better.

Unknown

Try a different combo with Jug then? Plenty of other champs to annoy the world with.

chrisf

Oobla wrote:

Sure enough, I quickly came across a team running Thor and Juggernaut and my worries were confirmed. The AI would use Thor's 6 red AP Mjolnir's Might for 700 damage over my opponent's max level Juggernaut's 3k hits... Why the sudden change? Is this just a one off incident or have other people seen the same thing?

In my experience, the AI will use abilities as soon as they are available. I don't think I've ever seen the AI save points to use a more expensive ability if there's a cheaper option.

Nemek

It definitely doesn't save points, but I think the better question is what happens when there is a tie. What would determine one power over another?

Unknown

Badman82 wrote:

In theory Thor's ability is better because it does not inflict damage to himself like juggernaut's head butt

Normally, but in this tournament the 200% buff makes a level 40 Juggernaut pretty lethal - the self harming stays at its normal level (just over 500), whilst damage dealt is 3000+. In a defence situation, if you are running Juggernaut and Thor, I'm pretty sure you'd rather have Juggernaut smashing the opponent than Thor - Thor has to fully charge his yellow power to even equal the damage off one Headbutt.

Unknown

My guess for how this works is team order. The AI will use a skill if possible. If there are ties, it uses the skill of whoever is first to act similar to how matching tiles works.

Unknown

I would prefer not using juggernaut at all. I would also prefer a game of skill rather than someone's juggernaut going off for 3k plus damage. It's just as cheap/lazy as people using storm

Unknown

Wow, a cheap Storm dig, never see them round here. In my opinion, the boosting of Juggernaut is a great mechanic to get people using a character who never gets a look in most of the time. Two max level Juggernauts going against each other in this event, flanked by dangerous allies, then there is going to be skill involved. Let me assure you.

Unknown

Interesting. I'll look for Jagg / Thor combos and see if it works like you say - may able to beat them but they will smash me on the retribution!

Unknown

Badman82 wrote:

I would prefer not using juggernaut at all. I would also prefer a game of skill rather than someone's juggernaut going off for 3k plus damage. It's just as cheap/lazy as people using storm

A game of skill? I think that's open to interpretation. One might say that the process of figuring out which team composition is strongest for the tournament/event is the skill aspect and the rest is just grinding.

Another interpretation could be that we should all be given the same team comps/levels and see who can win using that to determine skill. After all, that would set everyone off at the same footing. However, I don't think beating up the AI takes much skill at all - seen by all the teams that take advantage of the AIs stupidity.

What does your "game of skill" entail?

Unknown

When I'm running that combo, my Thor's red power uses 7 AP, so would be keen to see how the AI plays it.

Unknown

sps-puzzlequest wrote:

One might say that the process of figuring out which team composition is strongest for the tournament/event is the skill aspect and the rest is just grinding.

This is a great point. That's probably the most fun aspect I have with any of the themed event on this game - figuring out a good combo to use. It's nice using new characters, seeing how the opponent matches up their guys and then using some of that chemistry myself. I've gone through so many phases of thinking I'm never going to use a certain character, only to find a good use for them in tandem with some of my other guys. Cue frantic leveling up of said character!

Unknown

Badman82 wrote:

I would prefer not using juggernaut at all. I would also prefer a game of skill rather than someone's juggernaut going off for 3k plus damage. It's just as cheap/lazy as people using storm

What's so skillful about Venom or Ragnarok teams?

Hawkeye is one of the more "skillful" characters and not many use em (for reference, I in fact, do).

"Skill" in this game is utilizing the limited ability of the AI efficiently on defense and exploiting it on offense. I don't even really consider this a game of skill, rather strategy. At least until they implement realtime PVP.

Unknown

sps-puzzlequest wrote:

Badman82 wrote:

I would prefer not using juggernaut at all. I would also prefer a game of skill rather than someone's juggernaut going off for 3k plus damage. It's just as cheap/lazy as people using storm

A game of skill? I think that's open to interpretation. One might say that the process of figuring out which team composition is strongest for the tournament/event is the skill aspect and the rest is just grinding.

Another interpretation could be that we should all be given the same team comps/levels and see who can win using that to determine skill. After all, that would set everyone off at the same footing. However, I don't think beating up the AI takes much skill at all - seen by all the teams that take advantage of the AIs stupidity.

What does your "game of skill" entail?

I'm terribly sorry. I had no idea I would be schooled by someone who thinks skill involves matching 2 sets of tiles and pressing a button at the top of the screen. If that's your logic then you are extremely skilled based on your ability to write a response. My hat is off to you sir!

Unknown

no need for sarcasm. the skill needed actually is the skill of luck of having a red cascade for ur first move to headbutt the enemy juggernaut out of the fihgt

Unknown

This is why the Terminator future will never happen for us. Those machines are stupid.

Unknown

I have to agree with Forgrim, I wouldn't say there is much skill involved.. mostly just pure luck

Unknown

chrisf wrote:

In my experience, the AI will use abilities as soon as they are available. I don't think I've ever seen the AI save points to use a more expensive ability if there's a cheaper option.

Saw it in the Lightning Hood tournament -- opponent had an Iron Man and Hood remaining, 14 yellow AP. I was expecting a blast from IM but it held it to get more yellow for Hood.

Shame they both died the next round.

Unknown

lol @ u guys complaning about juggy

just mad because ur usual faceroll lvl 2000 ragnarok/thor/ironman/storm comp can't stomp everyone else so easily anymore