the new pve (system/scailing)

Thevipper

Will it be back after the second run of civil war event? are you giving up on it to try something different? are you going to try and sweep it under the rug and forget about it?

unless I missed a post somewhere everything went quiet.

I do assume they just missed the dead line to implement it in civil war's event and will continue after but still want to ask.

alphabeta

Previous boss events have been global scaling anyway so don't see Civil War as having been a deadline or likely effected.

My guess is they realise they still have a way to go - a system that was trying to limit benefit of soft capping helped it massively and 6 clears plus grind is about as unpopular a proposal as its possible to think of.

So typical MPQ it'll be introduced with 30 mins notice for good next week

Daiches

Thevipper wrote:

Will it be back after the second run of civil war event? are you giving up on it to try something different? are you going to try and sweep it under the rug and forget about it?

unless I missed a post somewhere everything went quiet.

I do assume they just missed the dead line to implement it in civil war's event and will continue after but still want to ask.

It was a test, or better multiple tests, that was hated by a large part of the community, the part that actually plays for rewards. It was loved by casuals that don't want rewards and misunderstand they can get the same exact rewards by playing even less I the old system than they have to the new system.

If it never gets implemented, it would be a big step in the right direction for this game.

Vhailorx

Daiches wrote:

Thevipper wrote:

Will it be back after the second run of civil war event? are you giving up on it to try something different? are you going to try and sweep it under the rug and forget about it?

unless I missed a post somewhere everything went quiet.

I do assume they just missed the dead line to implement it in civil war's event and will continue after but still want to ask.

It was a test, or better multiple tests, that was hated by a large part of the community, the part that actually plays for rewards. It was loved by casuals that don't want rewards and misunderstand they can get the same exact rewards by playing even less I the old system than they have to the new system.

If it never gets implemented, it would be a big step in the right direction for this game.

Unfortunately, I saw a lot more "the scaling was fine" posts for the third test run. And there is still a significant minority of casual people who prefer the 'play when you want' system (apparently without noticing that it doesn't actually matter unless you go for top placement).

Since the whole testing exercise is just demiurge slowly dialing back the negative scaling changes in the new system until players stop hating it quite so much, I suspect there will be one more test with slightly more favorable scaling. There will be no change to the new scoring system (since it has been preserved as initially announced in all three tests.

wymtime

As they go forward with PVE testing I really one they take our feedback on the 8 hr timers to heart. Making players grind for 2-4 hrs in a row for placement is just going to be awful.

Starsaber

Vhailorx wrote:

Daiches wrote:

Thevipper wrote:

Will it be back after the second run of civil war event? are you giving up on it to try something different? are you going to try and sweep it under the rug and forget about it?

unless I missed a post somewhere everything went quiet.

I do assume they just missed the dead line to implement it in civil war's event and will continue after but still want to ask.

It was a test, or better multiple tests, that was hated by a large part of the community, the part that actually plays for rewards. It was loved by casuals that don't want rewards and misunderstand they can get the same exact rewards by playing even less I the old system than they have to the new system.

If it never gets implemented, it would be a big step in the right direction for this game.

Unfortunately, I saw a lot more "the scaling was fine" posts for the third test run. And there is still a significant minority of casual people who prefer the 'play when you want' system (apparently without noticing that it doesn't actually matter unless you go for top placement).

Since the whole testing exercise is just demiurge slowly dialing back the negative scaling changes in the new system until players stop hating it quite so much, I suspect there will be one more test with slightly more favorable scaling. There will be no change to the new scoring system (since it has been preserved as initially announced in all three tests.

The scaling was fine this time around. The fact that it still wasn't actually PVE since it had placement rewards rather than more progression rewards was not.

Evilgenius_9

Vhailorx wrote:

Daiches wrote:

Unfortunately, I saw a lot more "the scaling was fine" posts for the third test run. And there is still a significant minority of casual people who prefer the 'play when you want' system (apparently without noticing that it doesn't actually matter unless you go for top placement).

There is a big caveat to this statement, and that "it doesn't actually matter... IF IF IF you an play every day for 30-40 minutes before and 30 minutes or so after the beginning of one of the time slots". I do not fit in that category (because I have night classes certain nights of the week, including thursday when many events end). So for me, yes, play when I want (with scaling similar to the last event) does make it easier for me to hit progression.

Vhailorx

Sorry evil genius, I strongly disagree.

Unless you targeted top 20 placement (or top 50 for a new character release), the old system timer made no difference. There were more than enough points available to get max prog and finish top 100 playing whenever you like.

I know this is true because I have done it many times.

And because the new system eliminates trivial nodes and has generally featured raised prog rewards, the new system is actually worse for casual players too (it's much worse for competitive players).

Evilgenius_9

Vhailorx wrote:

Sorry evil genius, I strongly disagree.

Unless you targeted top 20 placement (or top 50 for a new character release), the old system timer made no difference. There were more than enough points available to get max prog and finish top 100 playing whenever you like.

I know this is true because I have done it many times.

And because the new system eliminates trivial nodes and has generally featured raised prog rewards, the new system is actually worse for casual players too (it's much worse for competitive players).

I still disagree. As a player stuck in 3* land (with a bunch of un-levelled 5*'s), the higher nodes were much easier overall, so the playing time it took me to get top 100 and progression was much less with the last test event than any of the typical ones.

To add clarification - I could beat the final node like 3 times in the exact same playing time it often takes to beat it once with the current scaling. I guess if the scaling was changed and timing left the same I would be happy with that too - but it still stands that the actual playing time was similar and often less with the tests than with the current system.

I also think it's dumb that new characters are based on competition and should be the progression award, but that's a different conversation.

Vhailorx

Evilgenius_9 wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

Sorry evil genius, I strongly disagree.

Unless you targeted top 20 placement (or top 50 for a new character release), the old system timer made no difference. There were more than enough points available to get max prog and finish top 100 playing whenever you like.

I know this is true because I have done it many times.

And because the new system eliminates trivial nodes and has generally featured raised prog rewards, the new system is actually worse for casual players too (it's much worse for competitive players).

I still disagree. As a player stuck in 3* land (with a bunch of un-levelled 5*'s), the higher nodes were much easier overall, so the playing time it took me to get top 100 and progression was much less with the last test event than any of the typical ones.

absolutely agree that the scaling problem is real land needs to be addressed. By conjoining scaling changes with scoring changes in the latest test, demiurge has managed to distract the player base from the the very player un-friendly scoring changes by throwing people a bone with scaling and removing the timer (a time that didn't matter for 95% of players). And they didn't even fix the scaling, as evidenced by their admission that the new system was too hard for veteran rosters. They just made the problem of soft-capped rosters excelling in PVE worse!

Please don't think that my opposition to the new PVE system means that I want players in your position to have a hard time. I don't, I just want everyone to have a better system.

Evilgenius_9

Vhailorx wrote:

Evilgenius_9 wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

Sorry evil genius, I strongly disagree.

Unless you targeted top 20 placement (or top 50 for a new character release), the old system timer made no difference. There were more than enough points available to get max prog and finish top 100 playing whenever you like.

I know this is true because I have done it many times.

And because the new system eliminates trivial nodes and has generally featured raised prog rewards, the new system is actually worse for casual players too (it's much worse for competitive players).

I still disagree. As a player stuck in 3* land (with a bunch of un-levelled 5*'s), the higher nodes were much easier overall, so the playing time it took me to get top 100 and progression was much less with the last test event than any of the typical ones.

absolutely agree that the scaling problem is real land needs to be addressed. By conjoining scaling changes with scoring changes in the latest test, demiurge has managed to distract the player base from the the very player un-friendly scoring changes by throwing people a bone with scaling and removing the timer (a time that didn't matter for 95% of players). And they didn't even fix the scaling, as evidenced by their admission that the new system was too hard for veteran rosters. They just made the problem of soft-capped rosters excelling in PVE worse!

Please don't think that my opposition to the new PVE system means that I want players in your position to have a hard time. I don't, I just want everyone to have a better system.

If you see my edit above, the items are conjoined as it stands. Perhaps just fixing scaling and leaving the timing makes it better, but really why should getting the best PVE rewards depend on being able to time the game and play furiously for 3 times a day? In that regards, being rewarded for being able to play more seems to make a lot more sense to me - more reward requires more effort, not better timing in your life.

Vhailorx

Oh, I dislike the 8 hour timer too. Competitive pve is annoying as hell.

But that doesn't change the fact that the new system is much worse for competitive players, and a push at best for casual players (in terms ease of reaching progression. Scaling is a bit quirky depending on your roster). That's a bad change overall.