"A Few Times In Recent Weeks" [Dev Post Frequency]

TheOncomingStorm

One developer has posted here a few times in recent weeks. Just wow. That speaks volumes on two things.

1. That empirically proves lack of communication imo.

2. I, myself, have no problem with the developers not posting on the forum. They have come on in the past to be informative at the request of players, not to debate or defend the information they were furnishing. Enough players put them in a darned if you do and darned if you don't situation.

Mpq provides information on the forum, more and more timely than anywhere else. They just don't get into debates about the information provided.

Players have gripes, many legitimate. Players want answers to those. Whether it's that they've been heard, or why things are done, instead of just the what is being done.

Personally, I would like to know how many hours per week they expect players to play to attain optimal rewards, and how they can have a clear conscience with that expectation.

What is my point? If mpq wants to continue driving vets away (and probably other players as well), then everything should stay the same. Provide only essential communication and disregard player feedback of what would make the game more fun and interesting.

We had this discussion in my former alliance's chat this past week. As we saw a new group of people we never thought would quit the game leave, there was a consensus.

Most of us installed this game because of our love of Marvel. Most of us enjoy the game at first. Every single alliance member that played the game over a period longer than a couple of months did so in spite of the game. Let me crystal clear. We played the game because we enjoyed the players and our interactions even though the game was many times not enjoyable.

In fact many kept playing months (many, many months) not looking forward to playing the same pve over and over, same nodes in a pve over and over. We loathed spending countless hours for little or no game progression. All the while having a blast with other players and holding onto to some illusion of hope that the development team would listen to their overly loyal playerbase and make the game itself fun.

You have no idea how many former players still discuss this game. How many wish the developers would have listened so that they could enjoy the characters that had always loved or were introduced, right here, for the first time. How many miss they former alliance mates and forumites.

I have no answers. Never claimed to. I don't know if it's group think or just tunnel vision. Maybe many improvements are being held aside for mpq2. I do believe the game could be more player friendly. I do know that the only ones that can do that are the developers.

Mod Edit: Clarified Thread Title

Jarvind

I'm gonna say what I always say to these threads: they're a business. They don't owe you anything.

"But I paid money when I didn't have to! I demand communication!"

You paid money, and you got a product. Whether it's "virtual" or "pixels" or what-have-you doesn't matter - you handed over money in exchange for goods or services. That's all the relationship between a business and its customers has to be. Would it be great if there was more communication and all the stuff players gripe about got solved? Yeah, totally, but people have been complaining about a lack of communication and ISO forever. If those things get addressed, great, but I think it's safe to assume at this point that making angry threads about it doesn't accomplish anything.

I'm also assuming that you have spent at some point - if not, well, you aren't keeping the lights on. Goodwill doesn't pay the bills.

I dare to assume they do things the way they do because it works for them. There are plenty of things people would like all manner of businesses to change, but if every company starts kowtowing to every angry tweet or pissed-off email, pretty soon there won't be any companies left.

I'd like a lot of stuff to change, but the game is fun enough for me that I keep playing, and throw a little cash at it occasionally. If it's crossed the line for you - if the seesaw of fun vs. resentment is tipping the wrong way - then stop playing. It's the easiest and most decisive way to get your message across. Plus, you'll have, like, so much more free time.

Esheris

Jarvind wrote:

I'm gonna say what I always say to these threads: they're a business. They don't owe you anything.

"But I paid money when I didn't have to! I demand communication!"

I know I don't own a business but I think it's a good business model to talk to your customers. It helps to establish a trust between each other, where the business can make us happy to give them more money.

When they tell us about future plans it also helps to ensure they are working on the game and advancing it to make it better.

Malcrof

Esheris wrote:

Jarvind wrote:

I'm gonna say what I always say to these threads: they're a business. They don't owe you anything.

"But I paid money when I didn't have to! I demand communication!"

I know I don't own a business but I think it's a good business model to talk to your customers. It helps to establish a trust between each other, where the business can make us happy to give them more money.

When they tell us about future plans it also helps to ensure they are working on the game and advancing it to make it better.

Really? Go post a review on Amazon and see if anyone ever gets back to you.. complain all you want, they are a billion dollar company, they should communicate right?

They post when new content comes out, they answer occasional questions, and most importantly, they do their jobs, which is to add content to the game and let us know when it is added, and what was added.

We also have had preview threads, updated fairly regularly, that 99% of players never see.. so we here on the forums have a huge advantage in planning as well.

You really need to understand that the forum is not indicative of the average player in the least... You usually only seek out forums when you become fairly hardcore.. but as my experiences on Line have taught me, even the majority of Hardcore players don't even have forum accounts.

firethorne

Esheris wrote:

Jarvind wrote:

I'm gonna say what I always say to these threads: they're a business. They don't owe you anything.

"But I paid money when I didn't have to! I demand communication!"

I know I don't own a business but I think it's a good business model to talk to your customers. It helps to establish a trust between each other, where the business can make us happy to give them more money.

When they tell us about future plans it also helps to ensure they are working on the game and advancing it to make it better.

Exactly. Even if a business isn't legally obligated to have a dialog with customers, they still should. Customers who feel valued by regular contact with a company tend to talk about it with people they know, making it de facto marketing. And maintaining trust is fundamental to ensuring future purchases from current customers.

Now admittedly, there have been a few episodes of messaging the customers found wildly unfavorably, like the, "You're supposed to lose," anniversary. That tuned the forums into a dumpster fire for a few weeks, so I can understand if they're a bit gun shy. But even that wasn't without value. It showed a clear disconnect between what the customers wanted and the development philosophy and allowed modifications to be made. And more communication ahead of that failure could have helped course correct before it had gotten as bad as they allowed it to get.

FierceKiwi

Malcrof wrote:

They post when new content comes out, they answer occasional questions, and most importantly, they do their jobs, which is to add content to the game and let us know when it is added, and what was added.

LOL. Oh how I've missed that sense of humor Mal...oh wait are you serious? If I did my job as poorly I'd have a new job of standing in the unemployment line within the week.

JVReal

FierceKiwi wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

They post when new content comes out, they answer occasional questions, and most importantly, they do their jobs, which is to add content to the game and let us know when it is added, and what was added.

LOL. Oh how I've missed that sense of humor Mal...oh wait are you serious? If I did my job as poorly I'd have a new job of standing in the unemployment line within the week.

I think we have a disconnect here of what their job is.

Their job is to provide the game, keep it running while it's profitable, and update it while it's supported. We regularly receive game updates pushed daily, and then monthly (I believe), and new characters created, released, events planned and implemented, and an occasional thread updated or comment made on the forums.

I believe they are doing their jobs. We aren't their bosses, no matter how much we want to believe we are. We are their customers, but they don't answer to us. If we have legitimate issues, they have a customer service team that is paid to interact with us regarding our concerns on an individual basis.

Maybe we aren't getting what we want out of the game, but that doesn't mean they aren't doing what they are being paid to do.

I'm a fan of companies going above and beyond for their customers. I believe there should be communication on a more regular basis. I think it's especially important for big events or big changes. Unfortunately my desires are not the 'required' parts of their job descriptions.

FierceKiwi

Oh I'm well aware of what their job is in fact it's right there in the quote I quoted...I'm saying they are terrible at that job.

Esheris

Malcrof wrote:

Esheris wrote:

Jarvind wrote:

I'm gonna say what I always say to these threads: they're a business. They don't owe you anything.

"But I paid money when I didn't have to! I demand communication!"

I know I don't own a business but I think it's a good business model to talk to your customers. It helps to establish a trust between each other, where the business can make us happy to give them more money.

When they tell us about future plans it also helps to ensure they are working on the game and advancing it to make it better.

Really? Go post a review on Amazon and see if anyone ever gets back to you.. complain all you want, they are a billion dollar company, they should communicate right?

They post when new content comes out, they answer occasional questions, and most importantly, they do their jobs, which is to add content to the game and let us know when it is added, and what was added.

We also have had preview threads, updated fairly regularly, that 99% of players never see.. so we here on the forums have a huge advantage in planning as well.

You really need to understand that the forum is not indicative of the average player in the least... You usually only seek out forums when you become fairly hardcore.. but as my experiences on Line have taught me, even the majority of Hardcore players don't even have forum accounts.

Please reread my post, I'm not sure you were talking to me but quoted me. I never stated that D3 doesn't talk to us, I just meant it's nice when they do because I feel like it helps the customers to know we are going to get more content and that the future of this game has more to come. ^_^

No harshness here please! My first post was in favor of D3 and I'd like to see more of what they have to say, any else was a mis-read.

TheWerebison

I work as a customer service rep for a retail store of a major chain (although thankfully it's just for that store, not the entire company). I believe the issue is twofold.

One, from the players standpoint: The devs USED to communicate with us on a fairly regular basis. The fact that now they use nothing but carefully worded memos detailing upcoming events and changes, and don't talk with us personally, creates discord among the people who have been here for a long time and are used to being able to having their questions and misgivings addressed. It gives the impression that they just do not care about our wishes. Personally, I believe they do read a good bit of our stuff, but when they make some changes and not others, and don't give any of the reasons as to WHY, it appears as though they're just doing their own thing regardless of player feedback. It almost doesn't really matter if they actually DO listen to us or not, the impression they are giving the playerbase is that they don't care about feedback. Image is everything. If a major corporation suddenly refused to address any customer complaints anymore, it'd be a huge PR scandal. Although, apples to oranges, obviously D3 is not a major corporation.

Two, from the devs standpoint (obviously conjecture): ANY post they make, whether it's an announcement of an event, or a new character wallpaper, or even just a humorous comment they make on someone else's thread, is met with at least one - and often more - people saying "well, you need to fix this tiniest kitty of a game, and do this, and do this, and do it NOW or I leave!" I want to stress, that's on any post they make, for the most part. They can't have fun with the community anymore, because people are silly and demanding and rude. SOME people, definitely not all or even a majority, are consistently inflammatory, and I imagine the devs get tired of dealing with it. We can't have discussions with the devs anymore because the forums burst into flames. I almost wonder why we still have mods. Don't get me wrong, mods, I'm not trying to take your jobs away, you guys do a good job, but I can't imagine the job is that demanding anymore. I see threads get merged to simplify things, and warnings go out to some people who go over the top. But without the devs speaking with us, there doesn't seem to be as much to manage as there used to be.

tanis3303

Yea, I'm not sure I'd wanna talk to us either.

But there's a LOT of solid, constructive and what should be helpful feedback and advice on this forum, if you can sift it out of all the snark and attitude. If they had a guy that could filter it out and ignore that part of it and only respond to the things that are genuinely helpful to them, I think we'd see less anger around here, as the **** voices would get ignored and the constructive ones knew they were being heard. Ice was always great at this, even fired back with his own snark from time to time, which always amused me. Radio silence is only feeding the fires, as everyone feels like they're just shouting into the wind when most of us have legitimately good ideas and really just want to help. Even a simple "That's a cool idea, I'll suggest that!" (even if you have NO intention of actually doing so) or "Interesting, but that wouldn't work because...." would go a long way towards stemming some of the attitude on these pages.

Dayv

FierceKiwi wrote:

Oh I'm well aware of what their job is in fact it's right there in the quote I quoted...I'm saying they are terrible at that job.

Didn't you quit playing?

Forum negativity is bad enough with only active players involved. Former players who just have an axe to grind really don't help.

halirin

Is there a way to consolidate all the threads complaining about communication? Or just a general I hate this game but still want to post about it thread? Or a way to just redirect those posters to kotakuinaction? Maybe I just need to train myself to stop reading them, but it does seem like people are covering the same ground over and over and over and over again.

carrion_pigeons

I don't really care about them saying, "Yes, we hear you." I don't care about my criticisms being listened to. In fact, I don't even care if my criticisms are ever addressed. The game is not in a fixable state. I can point out problems with the design or the philosophy behind the design or the cynicism behind the philosophy, but the reality is that the game *can't* change into something better.

Ask yourself, what kind of person are the designers of MPQ trying to cater to? I don't mean who is their target audience, I mean who do they think is getting maximum enjoyment out of their game? The answer is, their board of directors. MPQ is a game in the same sense that making piles of rocks is a game (which is to say, it isn't actually a game). It's just something to do, with a progressive element to make people feel like whoever has the biggest pile of rocks has accomplished something. The entire point of MPQ from the ground up has been to sell the notion to people that making rock piles (not even rock piles! VIRTUAL rock piles!) is valuable, but since it isn't true from the getgo, the entire premise of game is impossible to improve on.

Everyone who wants D3 to communicate with them, or even make changes to ease the rock pile requirements somehow, is missing the point. Your reason for existing is to throw money at the publisher. If you think there's some kind of exchange going on here, you're just mistaken, because that's not what's happening. If you're tired of spending money then find some gravel and go back to your rock pile.

firethorne

halirin wrote:

but it does seem like people are covering the same ground over and over and over and over again.

tanis3303 wrote:

everyone feels like they're just shouting into the wind when most of us have legitimately good ideas and really just want to help. Even a simple "That's a cool idea, I'll suggest that!" (even if you have NO intention of actually doing so) or "Interesting, but that wouldn't work because...." would go a long way towards stemming some of the attitude on these pages.

Methinks these two items be related...

Jarvind

firethorne wrote:

Exactly. Even if a business isn't legally obligated to have a dialog with customers, they still should. Customers who feel valued by regular contact with a company tend to talk about it with people they know, making it de facto marketing.

I absolutely, 100% agree with this statement. That's how things should be. It's not how they are.

If the cash is flowing, there's little incentive to go above and beyond just on the off-chance that maybe it gets a little more business in the door. The reason you hear about it when companies do that is because it's so rare. People are predictable; they tend to do the bare minimum required of them. That's why it's noteworthy when they do more.

To be honest, I thought the Galactus event showed that the dev team does actually read the feedback, even if they don't always openly acknowledge it. The first run of that event was a complete disaster - the second run (and later third) fixed virtually every gripe that came out on the forums. If there is an issue that hasn't been addressed, I'm inclined to believe that there is a reason for it. Whether it's a reason everyone here would agree with is another matter, but I don't think they're just ignoring everyone and patching things in willy-nilly.

Ludaa

I wish they would talk more as well, but...I think it's a bit of the old "Don't be friends with your employees/boss." They can't be friendly and excited for us to play when the game is really just a finely tuned device meant to part money from our wallets. Especially since most of us here have played long enough and can see through the green curtain. Reddit, on the other hand is a much "noobier" MPQ community, where a dev might feel he can once more share in a beginners excitement.

TheWerebison

Eh, I dunno. Different developers have different personalities. Some of them are super excited to reveal a new feature, or eager to show people what they've done with all the time they've spent on their projects. But yeah, most games like these are probably mostly just focused on money.

I will share an experience I had recently, though, with the Avengers Academy game by TinyCo. They just recently finished their Guardians of the Galaxy event. You could earn all the Guardians by playing the game, and pay for Yondu and...uh...the blue-skinned girl...I forget her name, so I'm going to call her Amy Pond. Anyway, you could pay for those 2 with premium currency. I can't spend much, so I was just going for the Guardians. Near the end, it was clear I wasn't going to be able to get everyone. It was a heck of a push to get Rocket, so I knew Groot was out of the question. However, at the 1 1/2 day until end range, a strange thing happened. They extended the event another 24 hours. You could earn the main event currency faster. And quests dropped health packs that would make it easier for you to fight Ronan to get the items to get Groot.

It was amazing! I basically earned Groot within 32 hours, faster than any of the others I got. And I wasn't going to be able to even start TRYING to do that. It's like the developers decided, near the end, that they wanted more people to have rewards. Now, I didn't read their message boards. It's possible that they were responding to massive backlash from people who were upset they couldn't get everything. Or maybe they just got so much money during the event, they decided to celebrate.

I hope they don't go down the D3 route. I remember the first anniversary, with large drop rates on a new (if mostly useless) 4*, crazy lightning rounds. They used to have double Iso periods. And the Ultron event! God, that was so good, it was like they WANTED people to play it and earn all the rewards.

I dunno. Rose-colored glasses, I guess. The game is what the game is, at this point. Hopefully the Civil War event will be really cool.

Mawtful

Jarvind wrote:

I'm gonna say what I always say to these threads: they're a business. They don't owe you anything.

"But I paid money when I didn't have to! I demand communication!"

You paid money, and you got a product. Whether it's "virtual" or "pixels" or what-have-you doesn't matter - you handed over money in exchange for goods or services. That's all the relationship between a business and its customers has to be.

Just curious, do you think that I deserve communication if I open a support ticket?

In the 2+ years that I've been playing, I've never received communication on any of the tickets I've raised, and the only support issue that was actually ever resolved was the one I PM'd Hi-Fi about.

mmrosek

How are there defenders of the Devs level of communication. It's lacking, plain and simple.

VA5

As the Developers have no obligation to communicate here and resolve issues it is most assurably in their best interest. Businesses that have failed to do so tend to die, especially in this competitive climate. Look at companies like Sears who dominated their markets a few decades ago and are on their death bed because they failed to address customer concerns and stay relevant. On the other hand juggernauts like Costco and Amazon are customer centric and change to feedback. These companies experience continual quarterly growth.

I've cutback my spending (which was significant) and time played recently and a lot of other veteran players have done likewise. Another player and I recently discussed how we both were in top 10 on PVE that awarded Drax with scores minimally above final progression reward. This was indicative of wide spread lack of interest.

So they are not obligated to, but if they want the money to cont to flow in...