**** Winter Soldier (Bucky Barnes) ****

notamutant

vudu3 wrote:

notamutant wrote:

You are forgetting that one of those nukes is just as good if it gets matched as if it were to go off with crazy strong attack tiles, and the other can be matched by you for extra damage. Not really comparable.

You only get an attack tile if the enemy matches a trap tile. If the enemy matches away the blue CD tile then you just wasted 10 blue AP.

Same with his red ability--if you match the CD tile you get extra damage; if the enemy matches it you get squat.

No, go reread it. If the enemy matches the blue CD you get the attack tile. You are right for red, but who cares with that damage? It is like a much better version of X-23 purple.

KGB

notamutant wrote:

vudu3 wrote:

notamutant wrote:

You are forgetting that one of those nukes is just as good if it gets matched as if it were to go off with crazy strong attack tiles, and the other can be matched by you for extra damage. Not really comparable.

You only get an attack tile if the enemy matches a trap tile. If the enemy matches away the blue CD tile then you just wasted 10 blue AP.

Same with his red ability--if you match the CD tile you get extra damage; if the enemy matches it you get squat.

No, go reread it. If the enemy matches the blue CD you get the attack tile. You are right for red, but who cares with that damage? It is like a much better version of X-23 purple.

Actually it doesn't say that at all about the Blue CD tile. It only says you get the attack tile if the enemy matches a TRAP tile.

The text doesn't say what happens if the Blue CD is matched away/removed. It's possible the trap tiles remain but don't detonate (since the CD is gone). So if the enemy eventually matches them they could still fire off.

KGB

OzarkBoatswain

Precision Shot is a selected 3 or 4 AP steal with a tinyyelena amount of damage attached. It can be used to avoid enemy powers or to power your own. It's not quite OBW Recon, but it's good.
edit: The tile destruction is quite nice too. The tile should generate AP and it can cause matches.

Detonator looks like a combination of some of the most annoying NPC attacks. You have Kishi's traps, Gorgon's Awaken the Hand, and that CD that sets off other bomb CDs on the board. The attack tiles created when enemies match traps are quite strong -- over half of the damage they would cause by the CD being set off. If the attack tiles stay on the board for 2 turns, the enemy match has been to your benefit. It does 1050 damage/AP if all of the CDs remain.

Moving Target is a CD power where you'll want to self-match the tile away, but it'll still do good damage if it reaches zero (around 25% less). 1150 damage/AP max.
I wish they didn't raise the CD turns at level 4 because it creates situations where it would be better to have had it at level 3. Like, when you can't match it away, but maybe the enemy can destroy it on that last turn. Or where you wish you had the damage a turn earlier.

Like Drax, Bucky is a 4* with very high damage output tempered by some tricky moves. He is also a CD/trap user who gets bonuses from matching his tiles like Daredevil. I am guessing he'll be around the same usability level as Drax.

Tentative covers rec: 3/5/5. Precision shot improves the least with extra covers.

Pylgrim

Hmm, it's a swingy one, this one. Problem is that you are strongly depending on then enemy team to collaborate with you. For example, his blue is rather impressive if the CD goes off (but completely useless if it's destroyed), but you really want the opponent to match away your traps! Red is great damage but on a super long CD that yes, gives you time to get even more juice out of it, but extra chances to the opponent team to make you have completely wasted 12 AP. I'd be much happier if the numbers on that red ability were 25% lower and it also had a clause that deals damage (25% less than normal) if the opponent matches it. It is a grenade, after all!

ErikPeter

I've been waiting for cheap, single tile cascade targeting forever, and 8 AP -- really closer to 4, minus whatever you generate with the cascade -- is a good deal. The damage is pretty inconsequential but what-ev-er, amazing power for offense.

elwhiteninja

been testing him on my sandbox account and I dont know he feels a bit slow and kinda weak, but interesting

zodiac339

Pylgrim wrote:

Hmm, it's a swingy one, this one. Problem is that you are strongly depending on then enemy team to collaborate with you. For example, his blue is rather impressive if the CD goes off (but completely useless if it's destroyed), but you really want the opponent to match away your traps! Red is great damage but on a super long CD that yes, gives you time to get even more juice out of it, but extra chances to the opponent team to make you have completely wasted 12 AP. I'd be much happier if the numbers on that red ability were 25% lower and it also had a clause that deals damage (25% less than normal) if the opponent matches it. It is a grenade, after all!

If the trap work like traps, then it won't be useless if the enemy matches out the CD tile. The traps should still be there and still produce the attack tiles if the enemy stumbles upon them.

Pylgrim

zodiac339 wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

Hmm, it's a swingy one, this one. Problem is that you are strongly depending on then enemy team to collaborate with you. For example, his blue is rather impressive if the CD goes off (but completely useless if it's destroyed), but you really want the opponent to match away your traps! Red is great damage but on a super long CD that yes, gives you time to get even more juice out of it, but extra chances to the opponent team to make you have completely wasted 12 AP. I'd be much happier if the numbers on that red ability were 25% lower and it also had a clause that deals damage (25% less than normal) if the opponent matches it. It is a grenade, after all!

If the trap work like traps, then it won't be useless if the enemy matches out the CD tile. The traps should still be there and still produce the attack tiles if the enemy stumbles upon them.

Ah good point. Can we please get confirmation on this? Also, the ability's description says that the traps must be "matched" by the enemy but apparently, going by Cthulu's experience, it works if the traps are /destroyed/ in some other way, too. Confirmation?

Vhailorx

I think he will be strong but not not overpowered relative to the current top 4*s. He has very high damage abilities, but is a bit slow.

3/5/5 seems like the best build at first glance to maximize damage, but ap theft is such a powerful ability, especially targeted ap theft, that I might recommend 5/5/3 instead. Red has awesome damage, but it's also the most fragile ability. blue will almost aways give you something, even if the CD gets matched away. But red can fizzle completely if the enemy matches it away.

Oldboy

notamutant wrote:

vudu3 wrote:

notamutant wrote:

Wow. Just wow. At first when I saw the descriptions in the Marvel interview, I thought it could go either way depending on actual numbers. Now that the numbers are out, Bucky is top 5 now. He could replace HB for single target nukes. Somewhat unreliable for some of his moves, but still insane damage numbers. He makes Ant-Man look like **** though with the attack tiles for Bucky being so much stronger.

Meh. His two big nukes both rely on CD tiles. You know what other 4* has two big nukes that rely on CD tiles? Star-lord.

You are forgetting that one of those nukes is just as good if it gets matched as if it were to go off with crazy strong attack tiles, and the other can be matched by you for extra damage. Not really comparable.

But but but... Starlord can overwrite those CD tiles!

Melevorn

Vhailorx wrote:

I think he will be strong but not not overpowered relative to the current top 4*s. He has very high damage abilities, but is a bit slow.

3/5/5 seems like the best build at first glance to maximize damage, but ap theft is such a powerful ability, especially targeted ap theft, that I might recommend 5/5/3 instead. Red has awesome damage, but it's also the most fragile ability. blue will almost aways give you something, even if the CD gets matched away. But red can fizzle completely if the enemy matches it away.

I concur, 5/5/3. That red is too fragile for 12 AP, IMHO. Bring along Hulkbuster or Cyclops for their red.

Blahahah

He has a big weakness in the fact that if the opponent has any kind of targetted or even random field destruction, they can render him almost useless. Also those attack tiles can be stolen by some characters, so there's that. Trap tiles can be overwritten, countdown can be destroyed or matched. His steal is good, but the damage is low.

It's a bit weird, I can't say he is good really. That's the big problem, you can basically confirm Drax's big damage by setting up with ant man just before on the cheaps and all, but there's not much to say you'll 100% get that red off, if at all.

Same with the blue. Good potential, but I'm an Ant Man user and I relish the idea of snatching up all of those tasty tiles.

Also I mean purple/blue/red isn't exactly a set of colors you'll want to spend on these when you have Jean Grey, Cyclops, Hulkbuster, and so on. I can at least justify Drax black in some respects.

Polares

I am still undecided with him, stealing is something in 4 land, so that is a net positive, but he just steals one color (and the damage is very low), then we have a trap ability 'similar' to Furys, where all the traps can do a serious damage if the countdown goes off, and you get something for each trap matched, but they are still traps. Then red is a countdown, which you get better damage if you match it, but a countdown nonetheless so it can do nothing, and 12 AP for maybe nothing is a lot.

He has too many conditionals, if he had just blue or red and then another more straight forward ability, or if red was much cheaper, he would be more balanced, as is, I think he is just mid tier. I don't even think he is better than Drax (yeah I know Drax is the worse char in the whole universe ).

BUT when buffed his numbers are going to be really high, around 20k and 2600 strike tiles for blue, and 27k damage if matching the red tile, so probably worth using if maxed. So I guess he can be put in the category of chars 'worth using when buffed' (if we were going to get all his covers and max him before 2017 )

johnmcclane

My enemy destroyed the traps (without matching them), no attack tile was created.

BTW: I've used his blue ability 4 times, 3 of 4 the CD tile was matched away

Tilesmasher

He's the 4* daredevil, could be good but this that and this other thing needs to happen for his big damage to actually happen, too easy to shake the board or steal tiles etc. Bummer.

Vhailorx

Tilesmasher wrote:

He's the 4* daredevil, could be good but this that and this other thing needs to happen for his big damage to actually happen, too easy to shake the board or steal tiles etc. Bummer.

I think drax is the 4* daredevil. Bucky looks to be a bit bettet, since he has one very good support power (purple), and his blue provides decent value whether or not the CD resolves.

But like anyone who depends on CDs and traps, he's very vulnerable to board shake. I wouldn't use him against over-leveled juggernaut.

hex706f726368

3/5/5 seems like a no brainer to me. Going 5 in purple only nets you +800ish damage and 1 extra AP. I think I'd rather gamble on either of the other two abilities hitting it big than bank on 1 AP being the diff in winning or losing.

*not that i'm going to use him that much anyway, in a 5* world this is just PvE essential insurance

Varg138

When will he available in token packs (LTs, heroics, etc)?

Vhailorx

Varg138 wrote:

When will he available in token packs (LTs, heroics, etc)?

Not until next season I think. Someone asked cthulhu if he would be added for this season and the answer was no.

Vhailorx

hex706f726368 wrote:

3/5/5 seems like a no brainer to me. Going 5 in purple only nets you +800ish damage and 1 extra AP. I think I'd rather gamble on either of the other two abilities hitting it big than bank on 1 AP being the diff in winning or losing.

*not that i'm going to use him that much anyway, in a 5* world this is just PvE essential insurance

I might disagree. Don't care about the damage increase, but it's not 'just' +1 ap. It's +1 ap for you and -1 for the ai. In a color of your choice. That's a potentially significant advantage of used well (i.e. not great on defense).

I don't think he will ever be a premier damage dealer (since his high damage powers are too contingent), so my think his play for utility and go 5/5/3. But honestly i don't know that i can say what build i prefer for sure without playing him. Maybe the king who must not be named (or someone else in the same position) can offer some insight once Bucky is maxed.