Drax - Does he need tweaking?

UncleSmed
UncleSmed Posts: 75
edited April 2016 in MPQ General Discussion
Is it just me, or does he seem really.. useless.

I guess I need more covers on him?
Would like to see him able to combo his own purple and red on the next turn, the same way his purple can be used to feed his black a countdown when it won't proc off his own powers.

Just have some utility for when he's the last guy, or the only purple/red on your team.

This is just a horrible event for playing with him in, Loki + feeder goons = no time to build up ap and get things rolling.
Next sub is Hood isn't it? That'll be worse..

Comments

  • Redrobot30
    Redrobot30 Posts: 348 Mover and Shaker
    I just let 2* Hawkeye and 2* Storm smash this node.
  • MarcusGraves
    MarcusGraves Posts: 495 Mover and Shaker
    I think he's fine, you do need the covers since his purple and red at max rank do savage amounts of damage.

    Not every character can be a good last one standing and I see nothing wrong with that.
  • sinnerjfl
    sinnerjfl Posts: 1,276 Chairperson of the Boards
    https://d3go.com/forums/viewtopic.php?style=1&f=14&t=42765
  • Jonny1Punch
    Jonny1Punch Posts: 440 Mover and Shaker
    As a huge drax fan I feel compelled to share my thoughts on how you can make him better with some minor tweaks. First off the red is fine but could use a slight increase in base Dmg for both numbers (20%+).

    The purple is the real problem here. Any move that ends the turn should be a real showstopper and this isn't it. It needs to create three CDs so that you have a nice synergy with his black OR not end the turn. I feel he shouldn't have to rely on other **** characters no one wants to pair him with. He needs to be a one man killing machine who can stand alone if needed and self-sustain.

    Please fix this guy we have waited so long!
  • babinro
    babinro Posts: 771 Critical Contributor
    Too early to say. A lot of us shrugged off both Rulk and Cyke as 'meh' to bad until later realizing they were both top tier.

    Drax has two cheap 8 AP cost abilities that deal some heavy damage. The downside to his purple is pretty severe but the one to his red really isn't that harsh at all. The character has some genuine potential when boosted.

    I don't think Drax will take over as top tier but in terms of 4*'s that need tweaking he seems pretty low on the list next to the likes of Venom, IW, ChoHulk and a few others.
  • Jarvind
    Jarvind Posts: 1,684 Chairperson of the Boards
    While I don't think he's a super stellar character, I think people are missing that you can use turn-enders as a "skip a turn" when no good matches are available. In the original Puzzle Quest, you could effectively "skip" by attempting to make an invalid move - you'd take a small amount of damage and lose your turn. I can't count how many times I would have loved to have that option in MPQ.

    I use OML's black to do this sometimes - even if the strikes get matched away, it's sometimes better than feeding the AI a match-4 that would give it the AP to fire a nasty power. While I don't think this makes up for Drax's other shortcomings (consuming 3 countdowns? really?) I do think it means his purple isn't nearly as terribad as everyone thinks.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    As is often the case, I think babinro is right.

    It's too early to say drax is actively bad, but on paper he doesn't look very strong. I distinctly remeber being very meh on rulk and thing when introduced (though I think I was higher in 4* cyc than the community). And they have all ended up being good-to-great characters.

    Red is probably the best ability, as it offers 1k+ damage per so once or twice a match of used well. As discussed at length in his character thread, the black and purple powers are much harder to properly leverage and seem likely to hold back. As of today, I think he will settle into the low/mid tier. Useful when boosted, and functional at base level, but almost always surpassed by another option.

    And I think the chances of a redesign any time soon are vanishingly small. There are far weaker 4*s that will take priority over drax if/when the devs decide to spend time on 4* rebalance.

    Skip-a-turn is a good idea in principle, but 8 purple ap is a very steep price to pay. Bringing along a better purple user is probably a superior option 90% of the time.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    babinro wrote:
    Too early to say. A lot of us shrugged off both Rulk and Cyke as 'meh' to bad until later realizing they were both top tier.

    Drax has two cheap 8 AP cost abilities that deal some heavy damage. The downside to his purple is pretty severe but the one to his red really isn't that harsh at all. The character has some genuine potential when boosted.

    I don't think Drax will take over as top tier but in terms of 4*'s that need tweaking he seems pretty low on the list next to the likes of Venom, IW, ChoHulk and a few others.

    Well let's be clear here. Cyclops and Red Hulk both accelerate their own abilities. Drax actively needs help to use 2/3rds of his skillset. His Black and Purple seem fine in a vacuum, until you realize that you can't use them in a vacuum; they flat-out require a support character to get value out of. And then you realize that the majority of the characters that could support him either overlap massively, or are flat-out better. Sure, there's Ant-Man. (Who's the 3rd on that team? Carnage? Prof X?) Aaaand that's about it. So I guess his usefulness hinges on how good the Ant-Drax team is?
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    Jaedenkaal wrote:

    Well let's be clear here. Cyclops and Red Hulk both accelerate their own abilities. Drax actively needs help to use 2/3rds of his skillset. His Black and Purple seem fine in a vacuum, until you realize that you can't use them in a vacuum; they flat-out require a support character to get value out of. And then you realize that the majority of the characters that could support him either overlap massively, or are flat-out better. Sure, there's Ant-Man. (Who's the 3rd on that team? Carnage? Prof X?) Aaaand that's about it. So I guess his usefulness hinges on how good the Ant-Drax team is?

    Drax definitely looks weaker than both 4*cyclops and rulk looked on paper.

    But there were legitimate questions about both of those characters. They had self-acceleration, but it wasn't clear how well that acceleration would work. 4*cyc had 2 entirely new mechanics with his yellow and blue. They both worked fairly well, so his red was reasonably easy to charge and he works well. Rulk had a familiar acceleration mechanic with his purple (it's very much like kingpin's, but kingpin's yellow is slow, so people probably undervalue the worth of his purple), but his green isn't really good until 18 ap, which seems high. In the end, rulk's purple makes it easy enough to collect 18 green, so he is also strong. But none of that was obvious before real playtesting.

    Maybe we are all missing something about drax. I doubt it, but ibsuppose it's possible.
  • SolidQ
    SolidQ Posts: 247 Tile Toppler
    Vhailorx wrote:
    Maybe we are all missing something about drax. I doubt it, but ibsuppose it's possible.
    I think, there soon will be more out Characters who produce countdown tiles icon_e_smile.gif
  • stowaway
    stowaway Posts: 501 Critical Contributor
    SolidQ wrote:
    I think, there soon will be more out Characters who produce countdown tiles icon_e_smile.gif

    Northstar? Hulkling and Wiccan?
  • Smudge
    Smudge Posts: 562 Critical Contributor
    edited April 2016
    Even though I don't really have the roster to play or build up 4* characters quickly, I can see some synergy with Drax from the 3* tier characters that are not GotG.

    Re-spec 3* Cyc to 3/5/5 since Drax has the superior red, roll with IF to generate black, and bring along a KP yellow TU. Could be fun.

    Synergy in the 4* tier is questionable, but I don't think Drax necessarily needs a tweak yet. I'm interested to know how those who can build/cover/level him will report in the coming weeks.

    Just some random musings I had on the subject. Dipping into the 3* tier isn't necessarily an optimal option, but IF and Cyc pair up with the big boys fairly well. Maybe someone better than Cyc to accelerate red since Drax and Cyc's best skills overlap, but I can't think of a better option off the top of my head.

    Edit: DUH. IM40 and IF could pair nicely with Drax.
  • Calnexin
    Calnexin Posts: 1,078 Chairperson of the Boards
    stowaway wrote:
    SolidQ wrote:
    I think, there soon will be more out Characters who produce countdown tiles icon_e_smile.gif

    Northstar? Hulkling and Wiccan?

    Maybe War Machine will have a recharge similar to IM40, but with inverse colors. Black/Purple/Yellow, charged off... Red?
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    Calnexin wrote:
    Maybe War Machine will have a recharge similar to IM40, but with inverse colors. Black/Purple/Yellow, charged off... Red?
    kingpin's (and xfw's and bp) best friend. if I ever got his red up and running I'd max kp for that like I did 4thor for im40.
  • DTStump
    DTStump Posts: 273 Mover and Shaker
    stowaway wrote:
    SolidQ wrote:
    I think, there soon will be more out Characters who produce countdown tiles icon_e_smile.gif

    Northstar? Hulkling and Wiccan?

    I don't think he meant out of the closet... icon_lol.gif
  • wirius
    wirius Posts: 667
    We're nearing the end of the 4* tier. I think all of the meaningful 4*'s have been released. Unless a character is blatently overpowered like Iron Fist or Luke Cage at 4 tier, at this point, its just collecting them for collection's sake.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    wirius wrote:
    We're nearing the end of the 4* tier. I think all of the meaningful 4*'s have been released. Unless a character is blatently overpowered like Iron Fist or Luke Cage at 4 tier, at this point, its just collecting them for collection's sake.

    I mostly agree, especially with the stronger recent releases (nova/quake/punmax). Ap theft on an otherwise decent 4* is just about the only new 4* mechanic I could see potentially displacing a current top 5 4*.

    What would an iron fist equivalent outlier at the 4* tier look like? Seems like a non-contingent power that did 900-1k/per ap, a cheap (5-7 ap) ap generating power that feeds the first ability, and a strong passive might be sufficiently OP.

    (and as a sidenote, what would iron fist look like as a 4*? At the time of his release there was a lot of evidence that he started out as a 4* anyway and was downgraded at the 11th hour. So up his health to 12 or 13I and bump up his ability strength by about 30%. Is he a top 5 4*?).
  • wirius
    wirius Posts: 667
    Vhailorx wrote:

    (and as a sidenote, what would iron fist look like as a 4*? At the time of his release there was a lot of evidence that he started out as a 4* anyway and was downgraded at the 11th hour. So up his health to 12 or 13I and bump up his ability strength by about 30%. Is he a top 5 4*?).

    He's the OBW of the 3* tier (before they did the health rebalance), able to hang with the 4*'s without any problem. So I guess an "Iron fist of the 4*" would be able to hang with the 5*'s without any problem.

    The commonality between OBW and IF are they have abilities that scale universally. A strike tile on the board is always good, it can be buffed. Cheap insane black generation is always good. OBW had AP steal, and at one time true healing.

    So mix any combination of free damage, cheap AP steal, true healing, or universal ap generation and you've got a winner!

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