The game keeps moving the ball

steakleather

So I've been playing over 800 days, got some 4 stars leveled up over 200, some 5*s with none usable yet, all 3*s champed but a couple, and I still just get pounded. I scored over 1000 in the Cyclops PvP, and didn't even crack the top 100.

How is it that the more I invest in the game, and the longer I play, the worse I do? It's very discouraging. I think to myself, "well, once I get x, I'll be able to really kick some ****." But there's no period of enjoying being powerful, because the game just throws maxed 5* teams at you that it's impossible to compete with. It's very frustrating.

tanis3303

Welcome the world of Freemium gaming my friend. Don't like where you're at in the game? There's a simple way out...boatloads of cold, hard cash. But buyer beware, as soon as you reach that coveted next level, a new, far more awesome level will be released, costing 3x as much!! Huzzah!

TxMoose

steakleather wrote:

So I've been playing over 800 days, got some 4 stars leveled up over 200, some 5*s with none usable yet, all 3*s champed but a couple, and I still just get pounded. I scored over 1000 in the Cyclops PvP, and didn't even crack the top 100.

How is it that the more I invest in the game, and the longer I play, the worse I do? It's very discouraging. I think to myself, "well, once I get x, I'll be able to really kick some ****." But there's no period of enjoying being powerful, because the game just throws maxed 5* teams at you that it's impossible to compete with. It's very frustrating.

just wait until 1900 isn't good enough for t50....

Tarheelmax

I don't think the game keeps moving the ball. It has always been about selectively using your resources.

I'm day 525, I haven't spent on the game, and have a 375 OML, 6 Champed 4*s and 17 champed 3*s. Putting in all that iso to champ almost all the 3*s isn't the way to go if you are trying to progress. You need to champ top tier 3*s and 4*s so you can consistently hit 1300 in PVP. Then, play PVE casually to hit the 25 CP progression. This will lead to those precious 5* covers you need. Champing 3* Falcon or Spiderman is not going to get you there.

bobbyfish

This is definitely the most frustrating part of the game for me. Now I don't think scaling as a whole is wrong, but there needs to be some point in building a strong roster. Surely you should be able to use your strength over lower levelled rosters at some point?

I'm at around day 400, I have 2 maxed 4* and around 20 champed 3*, plenty of 4* at around 170ish, but I have still never hit 1300 on PVP and therefore cannot keep a really strong flow of CP coming in. Fistbuster makes hitting 1000 easier, but beyond that it hasn't made a difference.

mpqr7

Once you champ enough good 4*s and get high enough levels on a good 5*, it gets a bit easier. Once you can hit 1300+ in pvp, then you're good. Enjoy the ride.

TxMoose

bobbyfish wrote:

This is definitely the most frustrating part of the game for me. Now I don't think scaling as a whole is wrong, but there needs to be some point in building a strong roster. Surely you should be able to use your strength over lower levelled rosters at some point?

I'm at around day 400, I have 2 maxed 4* and around 20 champed 3*, plenty of 4* at around 170ish, but I have still never hit 1300 on PVP and therefore cannot keep a really strong flow of CP coming in. Fistbuster makes hitting 1000 easier, but beyond that it hasn't made a difference.

my experience is that hitting 1300 is more about committing the hp (and skip iso) and avoiding bad slices. and generally, the stronger the roster, the less number of shields it costs. I'm assuming your 2 champs are rulk and hb (might want to update your roster). so when I originally fielded a 4* team my first shield was usually in the 900s, sometimes low 1000s. that usually took 2-3 hops to get past 1300, depending on slice activity and team strength and quality of matches I lined up. if you can't commit to 3-4 shields per pvp, you might have trouble hitting 1300 consistently. currently I have 8 champs and usually can field a team that puts up first shield somewhere around 1100 and i'll usually be right around 1300 after my first hop. because of how schedules line up I usually have 1-2 hops after that to finish the event and end up with anywhere between 1450 and 1800. the main keys are shield management and managing the slice (the right slice and cycling your nodes at the right times to line stuff up).

rawfsu

This feeling contributed me to stepping away from mobile gaming. I started championing 3*'s, and got my first 4* to usable status (LThor at 200). Got 3 5*'s, two with two covers (SS and Dark Phoenix). I started to feel like my roster was really coming along. Then, the PVP testing came in. Magnetic Mayhem was a nightmare. I was inching towards hitting 1k consistently in PVP, but struggled to hit 700. The second test came along, same results. After playing two years, I just wasn't interested anymore. The 3* nerf, coupled with yet another setback in matchmaking for PVP, was enough for me. The ball has moved one too many times.

AXP_isme

I'm not very good at sports but, isn't the ball supposed to move? A game where the ball stays in the same place is the kind of participation I could see myself enjoying.

wymtime

If you are playing for placement in PVP you neede to be willing to spend huge amounts of HP or start with less than 3hrs in and climb like crazy.

If you play for progression and hitting 1000 or 1300 or (place number here) your gaming experience is much better. Placement in PVE is much more achievable if you are willing to put in the time and want to "place" or "win".

JackTenrec

Tarheelmax wrote:

I'm day 525, I haven't spent on the game, and have a 375 OML, 6 Champed 4*s and 17 champed 3*s. Putting in all that iso to champ almost all the 3*s isn't the way to go if you are trying to progress.

You're discounting a fair amount of luck factor, though. I'm in the day high 600s, have one OML cover (black), and no 4* covered above a half-dozen (I think I've got 6 covers on Thoress and Elektra), so I can't champion 4* even if I wanted to, and sinking ISO into the ones I have isn't going to elevate either my PVE or PVP games. For most folks like me, championing 3* is the way to go because it accelerates both acquisition of 4* covers (because face it, those champion LTs are almost certainly going to give you 4* covers) and CP.

simonsez

AXP_isme wrote:

A game where the ball stays in the same place is the kind of participation I could see myself enjoying

Sounds like me trying to play golf...

Tarheelmax

JackTenrec wrote:

Tarheelmax wrote:

I'm day 525, I haven't spent on the game, and have a 375 OML, 6 Champed 4*s and 17 champed 3*s. Putting in all that iso to champ almost all the 3*s isn't the way to go if you are trying to progress.

You're discounting a fair amount of luck factor, though. I'm in the day high 600s, have one OML cover (black), and no 4* covered above a half-dozen (I think I've got 6 covers on Thoress and Elektra), so I can't champion 4* even if I wanted to, and sinking ISO into the ones I have isn't going to elevate either my PVE or PVP games. For most folks like me, championing 3* is the way to go because it accelerates both acquisition of 4* covers (because face it, those champion LTs are almost certainly going to give you 4* covers) and CP.

There will be small variations due to luck. But what you are talking about isn't luck, it's amount of time invested. If you play casually, you should expect to place casually, and be happy with a casual roster. It's not a bad thing. The whole point of the game is to get enjoyment from it; however you derive it.

I can tell you I didn't "luck" into my roster. I have put in a lot of time to stay competitive. Sure, I have experienced a little bit of luck that i have 8 OML covers, but overall, my 5* pull rate is probably near 10%. And I have 8 covers for Silver Surfer, and 5 for Phoenix. So it's not like I have been overly lucky in pulling OMLs.

And in the quest for 4*s. There is no luck in getting 11 covers a PVP season from hitting 1000 per event and 2000 in sim. Add in fairly casual play from PVE and that should be another 1.5 4*s a week from CP.

Another example. If you were competitive during Duck Season, you have as many covers as you state are your highest covered 4*s. Top 100 for PVE should net 2 (one placement, one alliance). They gave a freebie in the next PVE. You should have gotten one at 1000 in PVP, and with those 4 covers (which should be 3 invisibility covers), winning his DDQ was easy for another cover. There's 5 covers right there. Add either a little "luck" or a little heavier PVE play and you end up with more. I finished with 6 because out of the weekly Tacos, PVE tokens, and PVP tokens I was lucky enough to pull 1 more. But at the end of the day, luck meant 1 cover out of 5-6 covers.

PeterGibbons316

Tarheelmax wrote:

I don't think the game keeps moving the ball. It has always been about selectively using your resources.

I'm day 525, I haven't spent on the game, and have a 375 OML, 6 Champed 4*s and 17 champed 3*s. Putting in all that iso to champ almost all the 3*s isn't the way to go if you are trying to progress. You need to champ top tier 3*s and 4*s so you can consistently hit 1300 in PVP. Then, play PVE casually to hit the 25 CP progression. This will lead to those precious 5* covers you need. Champing 3* Falcon or Spiderman is not going to get you there.

I don't believe this. I'm on Day 550, have spent a ton, and am only slightly better off (Just hit 8 covers on my OML/JG within the past month or so, 9 champed 4*s, 20 champed 3*s.) To get to where I am without spending would have required a ton of exceptional pull luck, and quite a bit of outside communication on LINE - likely in S4 to hit 1300 consistently without spending a good bit of HP on shields, as well as being in a top tier alliance for most of that time.

I guess I shouldn't say I don't believe you, as it is within the realm of possibility, but you are clearly not the norm. "Selectively using your resources" isn't the biggest contributing factor to your success.


Oh, and don't knock Falcon, he is a PvE all-star and his Redwing is a fantastic counter to SWitch's blue (among other things). His essential is a breeze with OML/IF (I suppose most nodes are a breeze with those two, but he makes a fantastic 3rd.) I also regularly use him in PvE with Blade/Daken - great combo.

PeterGibbons316

edit: double post, sorry.

Tarheelmax

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

Tarheelmax wrote:

I don't think the game keeps moving the ball. It has always been about selectively using your resources.

I'm day 525, I haven't spent on the game, and have a 375 OML, 6 Champed 4*s and 17 champed 3*s. Putting in all that iso to champ almost all the 3*s isn't the way to go if you are trying to progress. You need to champ top tier 3*s and 4*s so you can consistently hit 1300 in PVP. Then, play PVE casually to hit the 25 CP progression. This will lead to those precious 5* covers you need. Champing 3* Falcon or Spiderman is not going to get you there.

I don't believe this. I'm on Day 550, have spent a ton, and am only slightly better off (Just hit 8 covers on my OML/JG within the past month or so, 9 champed 4*s, 20 champed 3*s.) To get to where I am without spending would have required a ton of exceptional pull luck, and quite a bit of outside communication on LINE - likely in S4 to hit 1300 consistently without spending a good bit of HP on shields, as well as being in a top tier alliance for most of that time.

I guess I shouldn't say I don't believe you, as it is within the realm of possibility, but you are clearly not the norm. "Selectively using your resources" isn't the biggest contributing factor to your success.


Oh, and don't knock Falcon, he is a PvE all-star and his Redwing is a fantastic counter to SWitch's blue (among other things). His essential is a breeze with OML/IF (I suppose most nodes are a breeze with those two, but he makes a fantastic 3rd.) I also regularly use him in PvE with Blade/Daken - great combo.

It's time investment. And playing competitively. And selectively using resources (Especially as a free player). I can assure you I'm on day 525, I have never spent a cent on the game, and have the roster I wrote about. You can check it out if you want. I'm in MPQU 2 (so yes, I've been in a top tier alliance, first it was United for PVE then MPQU 1 and 2 for PVP). I also wrote a topic at my 1 year anniversary telling free players how to get there. Its do-able.

My specific comment about being selective with resources was in response to the OP talking about having 4*s over level 200 and almost all 3*s champed. I was saying that is not the proper use of his resources.

1300 in PVE is easy. I've done it for a bunch of seasons in S1 and S3 (never really used S4 much). I usually use a 3/8/3 for shields, which is pretty much HP neutral after you factor in rewards.

And I'm not knocking Falcon, but putting him at level 120, and using an extra 100k iso on HB will get you much farther in the game. Think about it this way, if you only champ half of the 3*s and leave the other half at 120, that's 2 million ISO you save, or about enough to champ six 4*s. I can tell you out of those two rosters which one will easily hit 1300 in a pvp and which one will struggle to stay around 1000.

TxMoose

@peter - keep in mind alliance performance makes a big difference too. both in earned rewards and others' purchases, and really adds up over time. I took way too long to step up to a competitive alliance but since then, I have stepped up the ladder and it makes a huge difference in alliance finish stuff. no idea what your alliance is like and don't remember who tarheel is with, but that could be a big difference. I also took a block of time off of pve nearly completely. that set me back some too. overboosting early on set me back on iso later on. all those little things can add up. and luck plays a huge factor. I have 8-cover SS and 7-cover OML but haven't found that yellow yet, so I still don't have a usable 5. and since I have most of the 4s covered, I can't pull LTs until I get several situated at 180 and bank just a little iso (if I want to limit my wasted covers). so I continue to wonder if that yellow is sitting there in my 1K+ cp pile. anyway, there are so many variables that unless you actually lay out loads of info, to me it sounds very much believable.

huktonfonix

Chasing the moving ball IS the game. The entire game is based on progression. If you want to beat the boss and see the credits roll, you're playing the wrong game.

JVReal

I'm on day 574, but days are not really anything more than an indicator of how many days you played at least one fight. The only thing days guarantee you is this: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3642

Your roster is a direct result of effort (time and placement), alliance effort, and as Tarheel said, Smart use of resources. It's hard as a free player. Every bit of Iso, HP and CP you spend is time you don't get back. You need to make your effort worth as much as possible. If you are grinding for good placement, you should be in an alliance that grinds for good placement.

You get what you put in. If you are casual, you will have a casual roster and there is nothing wrong with that. If you put in minimal effort, but you buy your levels... you are replacing time with money... and you come out the same if not behind a free player that puts in time and effort.

Spenders keep the game alive. Most spenders make the best use of their resources as well, and therefore have an advantage over many free players because they are putting both money AND effort into their rosters. You can't buy PVP placement, or PVE placement... you still have to build your roster, you still have to play the matches, and you still have to grind or hop. I sat at home this weekend, I wanted my garage door to get done, my mower to be ready for spring, and my lawn mowed. No matter how much money I threw at it... it didn't get done. Someone is going to have to actually put forth some effort (likely me).

As has been said, play the way that brings you joy. If you enjoy walking, don't join a marathon, you will fall behind and be out of place. But if you enjoy walking and join a walk/run... you will be walking with other people who also enjoy walking and you will have way more fun. Find contentment.

wirius

The chase is the game. If you finally catch the ball, you'll realize how boring it is. The question is, are you getting close enough to the ball for the effort you put in?

Bowgentle

Tarheelmax wrote:

It's time investment. And playing competitively. And selectively using resources (Especially as a free player).

It's 100% luck.

I've been in a competitive alliance since before seasons started.
I've opened about 350 legendary tokens.
My draw rate for 5*s is below 5%, so I'm sitting on a grand total of 20 5* covers, only 17 of which have been pulled (rest daily reward).

Yes, putting in time and/or money, being in a competitive alliance, hitting 1300, etc is necessary.
But thanks to RNG there's a layer above that which you can't influence, and that is the problem with the game.
No matter how much effort I put into it, I can't change the fact that 350 LTs have produced only 17 5* covers.