Losing Progression Points in PVP

cooperbigdaddy

I know this topic has been discussed but I can't find a the answer of why this exists:

My question is "Why do you have to lose points while you're progressing in PVP?"

I understand someone hitting you, fine, that's RANK. I don't like getting hit and losing points, but I get it. But why does that effect your points of progression?

In PVE, your points while progressing never lower. When you get to 24,000 you stay there. Rank changes, yeah, but you keep the number of points you've EARNED so that you can keep climbing FROM WHERE YOU LEFT OFF as opposed to 100-1000 points back where you were.

Is it code? Is that too hard? Are they worried about people not playing or paying enough? Because there have been several times when I have been looking forward to getting a certain reward but after a few hours of break (some people refer to this break as "sleep"), I get hit so hard that it seems impossible to even get the next reward, much less the following rewards. And if I think I can get the next reward, I feel like I and plenty of others would PLAY MORE and might be inclined to SPEND MONEY on health packs, shields, boosts or whatever else helps to get higher in PVP.

I just would be so in love with this gameplay if I didn't lose actual progression points if I was hit by someone.

Please explain?

wirius

Because then they would have to increase the progression points to the point where only 5-10% of the players got the top progression reward. PvE has a cooldown system on points, so there is a challenge of scheduling and mindless grinding. PvP has no cooldown, so they would have to make a new challenge to ensure only a few people get the reward.

The entire game is based on statistics. They want x% getting the top rewards, which may vary based on how far along your roster is. If too many get it, they make it harder. If too few get it, they make it easier.

TxMoose

sandboxed guys don't have to worry about that at all. seems like it would be quite boring though.

PeterGibbons316

If they did that PvP would become the same grindfest that PvE is. You wouldn't care about your score, you would just try to get as many fights in as possible to hit progression. It would be terrible.

Triharda

If you didn't lose points when hit, why would you shield? Thus spending would go down. Thus never going to change.

It would be nice if they changed it to award earned points before subtracting lost points within matches, but there have been many requests for this, and all ignored so far...

FierceKiwi

TxMoose wrote:

sandboxed guys don't have to worry about that at all. seems like it would be quite boring though.

It is...but then again so is the non-sandboxed version of the game too...so really it's just a different kind of boring.

Warbringa

Why not just say you lose 5 (or 10) points when you lose a match if they insist on this feature. Have it be a set function not based on where a player is in the rankings. The problem I have is that 4* developed rosters join late and ding me for a ton of points when their team is already clearly better than mine and I lose 20 to 30 points and I can earn 5 points if I retaliate against them? I am sure the same thing happens to 2* teams from 3* teams etc. It is one of many issues I have had with the PvP system for years. Why not make it a point based system based on roster levels. You can go in 50 or any other acceptable level increments etc. So if your total roster levels are equal to 900 (3 x level 300 characters) and you beat a team with a roster level of 750 (3 x level 250) you would get fewer points than normal etc. You can even make it not every so many levels but based on the power curve if need be.

They should make PvP brackets based on roster levels (max total levels you can use to build your team). For example a noob early bracket could have 200 levels (mainly 1* and underdeveloped 2*) with a maximum individual character level of 120, an intermediate bracket up to 432 levels (3 champed 2* characters) with a maximum individual character level of 170,and so on and so on. The big catch is you only get to participate in one of these brackets for every PvP, that way you don't have whales hoarding all of the rewards for every bracket because they can. The brackets would also have differing rewards appropriate to that bracket - noob bracket has more HP and 2* characters, intermediate 2* and 3* covers etc.

WelcomeDeath

cooperbigdaddy wrote:

I know this topic has been discussed but I can't find a the answer of why this exists:

My question is "Why do you have to lose points while you're progressing in PVP?"

I understand someone hitting you, fine, that's RANK. I don't like getting hit and losing points, but I get it. But why does that effect your points of progression?

In PVE, your points while progressing never lower. When you get to 24,000 you stay there. Rank changes, yeah, but you keep the number of points you've EARNED so that you can keep climbing FROM WHERE YOU LEFT OFF as opposed to 100-1000 points back where you were.

Is it code? Is that too hard? Are they worried about people not playing or paying enough? Because there have been several times when I have been looking forward to getting a certain reward but after a few hours of break (some people refer to this break as "sleep"), I get hit so hard that it seems impossible to even get the next reward, much less the following rewards. And if I think I can get the next reward, I feel like I and plenty of others would PLAY MORE and might be inclined to SPEND MONEY on health packs, shields, boosts or whatever else helps to get higher in PVP.

I just would be so in love with this gameplay if I didn't lose actual progression points if I was hit by someone.

Please explain?

Because thats the only way to make it PvP, is to have you hit each other for points. Think of it as losing health in a CoD game. Thise that play more, have better weapons (rosters) are going to fare better than you are and, when they hit you, it hurts. They already have a gameplay mode where you can just play match after match and not lose points, they call it "story mode"

As for your request to have a feature where you can take a break and climb where you left off, im happy to announce that feature is now live! Top left corner of the pvp screen, its called "shielding". Youre welcome.

Thevipper

the only 2 way's this would be implemented
#1 keep all points in rewards tab and it never gets deducted but when you look at the points anywhere else the system says what you have.
#2 is to take out retaliation and increase point cap.

#2 is the best option but they probably will need to run countless test to find a sweet spot

I think taking progression out and making it only ranked is better its pvp for a reason

Linkster79

Triharda wrote:

If you didn't lose points when hit, why would you shield? Thus spending would go down. Thus never going to change.

It would be nice if they changed it to award earned points before subtracting lost points within matches, but there have been many requests for this, and all ignored so far...

I think the OP means that you can still lose points from your ranking score but not your progression score, shields would still be needed to protect your placement.

As for awarding points for winning before subtracting the defensive losses the inherent issue I see with this is users keeping the game open on a battle screen and never finishing said battle. If the battle doesn't end the points wont get subtracted so a user could in theory use that as a shield until the end of an event.

Triharda

Yes, fair shout - easily exploitable and also when you get hit and your points go down, that means you are worth less to the next person that queues you up.

However, I believe (happy to be corrected) that most people play Versus for the progression awards and the placement awards are just a nice bonus at the end. If ranking points and progression were separate only the 2% that are aiming for top 10 would ever shield, as they would still get their 4*/25cp rewards.
Admittedly I don't know how it could be done better to make progression easier without making it too easy for everyone.

I personally am at the awkward stage where I reach 850/900 most pvps but can't quite get to 1000 except for the rare times when I find a few CC by luck so getting to 970, starting a match for 40 points, winning then finding I've lost 150 while in match to leave me at 860 gets frustrating, where my 'idea' would have meant that although I still ended on 860, the system would have registered me as passing the 1000 first then lowering me back down so I got the 4*.

Eddiemon

Warbringa wrote:

Why not just say you lose 5 (or 10) points when you lose a match if they insist on this feature. Have it be a set function not based on where a player is in the rankings. The problem I have is that 4* developed rosters join late and ding me for a ton of points when their team is already clearly better than mine and I lose 20 to 30 points and I can earn 5 points if I retaliate against them?

Because they have less points then you. When that happens to me I just leave it for half an hour and then hit them. AT that point they have been climbing like madmen and it really stings when you claw 50 back.

I am sure the same thing happens to 2* teams from 3* teams etc. It is one of many issues I have had with the PvP system for years. Why not make it a point based system based on roster levels. You can go in 50 or any other acceptable level increments etc. So if your total roster levels are equal to 900 (3 x level 300 characters) and you beat a team with a roster level of 750 (3 x level 250) you would get fewer points than normal etc. You can even make it not every so many levels but based on the power curve if need be.

Because people will deliberately underdevelop rosters, cause let's face it a 200 /100 Fistbuster combo is almost as powerful as a 270+/166+ apart from health, and is terrifying for anyone with just 166s while the 300+ players will leave them alone because they aren't worth enough points.

They should make PvP brackets based on roster levels (max total levels you can use to build your team). For example a noob early bracket could have 200 levels (mainly 1* and underdeveloped 2*) with a maximum individual character level of 120, an intermediate bracket up to 432 levels (3 champed 2* characters) with a maximum individual character level of 170,and so on and so on. The big catch is you only get to participate in one of these brackets for every PvP, that way you don't have whales hoarding all of the rewards for every bracket because they can. The brackets would also have differing rewards appropriate to that bracket - noob bracket has more HP and 2* characters, intermediate 2* and 3* covers etc.

So if you invest in and develop your roster you should be punished, while a low level cheap roster should be given advantages for being low and cheap. And people will just work out where the borders of the brackets are and sit there with their rosters. No point in hitting the top bracket where you will be relegated to 400th place by 5* and 270+ rosters when you can sell off a few characters and be easy top 20 in the lower bracket.

WelcomeDeath

Thevipper wrote:

the only 2 way's this would be implemented
#1 keep all points in rewards tab and it never gets deducted but when you look at the points anywhere else the system says what you have.
#2 is to take out retaliation and increase point cap.

#2 is the best option but they probably will need to run countless test to find a sweet spot

I think taking progression out and making it only ranked is better its pvp for a reason

If you did #1, people could just climb and fall, never use shields, and get a legendary token and 4* character averaging 30 minutes per day. I'm pretty sure that would never happen. Also, I would think that having 2 separate scores ongoing would be a pain in the ****.
#2 would make pvp into what pve is now, just against other people's teams. It woukd just be a GRIND, which is what i think most pvp players try to avoid (I know I do).

Finally, if you took progression out and made it rank only, youd severely dry up the ability to earn 3* and 4* covers. Also, how would you earn 5*? 1st place only? Because im pretty sure thatd go to 5* guys already, so theres be no progress.