Battle for Zendikar Preview - Day 1!

Hibernum_JC

ChrisTot wrote:

Man, loroku and I are on the same wavelength this morning. That's good stuff making the quick battle events about speed and the pve events about results, I can dig that if the PVE events have comparable prizes.

One thing to think about as data from the perspective of a competitive player of this game is even though that black card is nice for sure (awesome job on it, it made me stoked!) and I'm sure opponents end up on a fast clock (not doubting how long a match takes), Nissa can win quick battles in 3-5 minutes still at max health. She also has life gain stacked into her deck by default with Herald. Chandra can kill people in a reasonable amount of time and take no damage from dealing with everything when it comes out (which will be similar to Ob, except for the taking damage part, Ob is maybe faster but taking damage matters). Not sure if Ob will have life gain or a different resource regen system, so it's unfair to really say anything. And the mechanics he's bringing to the table are definitely sweet. But in paper magic, if this was a deck, you'd always start at 20 life. In this game, your life has to carry over to the next game. It's possible you guys want us switching between the different planeswalkers more too though, so if that's part of the plan someone could always play with Ob and then swap him out for him to regen, we shall see

Can't wait for the next round of previews and thanks for answering extra questions!

We actually do want you guys to switch between Planeswalkers. It doesn't seem to happen for some reasons, the biggest one being healing. Our plans is we're hoping that with the new cards you'll see that you can win that fast with everyone, not just Nissa, so at least the speed problem doesn't become a Nissa-specific problem. We know Jace is super slow and Nissa is super fast right now, and with the new Planeswalkers and cards the game should significantly speed up. You'll see in the next few card spoilers that we have some very powerful cards that are costed rather low - to reiterate we really want to speed up games.

I'll be here to answer questions all week - I know I haven't been very active on the forums these past few weeks, but he main reason being we were working extremely hard on Battle for Zendikar, and I didn't have a lot of time to devote to the forums. At least this week I'll be much more often.

LordWill

Hibernum_JC wrote:

We actually do want you guys to switch between Planeswalkers. It doesn't seem to happen for some reasons, the biggest one being healing. Our plans is we're hoping that with the new cards you'll see that you can win that fast with everyone, not just Nissa, so at least the speed problem doesn't become a Nissa-specific problem. We know Jace is super slow and Nissa is super fast right now, and with the new Planeswalkers and cards the game should significantly speed up. You'll see in the next few card spoilers that we have some very powerful cards that are costed rather low - to reiterate we really want to speed up games.

I'll be here to answer questions all week - I know I haven't been very active on the forums these past few weeks, but he main reason being we were working extremely hard on Battle for Zendikar, and I didn't have a lot of time to devote to the forums. At least this week I'll be much more often.

You bring up an interesting point. I ONLY use Nissa because she is fast and every other PW I have tried is very slow and honestly not very fun. I just can't find anyone that gets mana going quickly and getting creatures out and pounding on the enemy. So since you know Nissa is faster and all the other PW's are slower, are you going to find a way to "fix/balance/revamp" them or just leave them as is and focus your development on the new PW's?

I understand you guys have probably learned a lot from this first round of PW's and I'm glad you recognize the shortcomings of the current PW's.
It seems a shame to leave them as is since a lot of time and effort was put into them. I think they would be good if they could gain mana the way Nissa does. I'm sure there are other ways to enhance them to speed them up.

How many new PW are there going to be?

Hibernum_JC

LordWill wrote:

You bring up an interesting point. I ONLY use Nissa because she is fast and every other PW I have tried is very slow and honestly not very fun. I just can't find anyone that gets mana going quickly and getting creatures out and pounding on the enemy. So since you know Nissa is faster and all the other PW's are slower, are you going to find a way to "fix/balance/revamp" them or just leave them as is and focus your development on the new PW's?

I understand you guys have probably learned a lot from this first round of PW's and I'm glad you recognize the shortcomings of the current PW's.
It seems a shame to leave them as is since a lot of time and effort was put into them. I think they would be good if they could gain mana the way Nissa does. I'm sure there are other ways to enhance them to speed them up.

How many new PW are there going to be?

We will rebalance or revamp whatever we find to be game-breaking, of course. Nissa's main issue is the amount of ramp she has, so if that truly becomes a problem after the new Planeswalkers and cards are out, we will figure out a way to rebalance what is problematic.

We did learn a lot from the first round of PWs. There's a lot we're doing different with the new ones - some things may be experiments, see how things pan out (it's a lot more difficult to get a good sample size in a controlled environment) but generally we're more confident with the new ones.

I can't divulge the exact number of new Planeswalkers, but I can tell you there's quite a few coming, and there's a few surprises in there that I'm sure nobody is expecting.

ChrisTot

Hibernum_JC wrote:

We actually do want you guys to switch between Planeswalkers. It doesn't seem to happen for some reasons, the biggest one being healing. Our plans is we're hoping that with the new cards you'll see that you can win that fast with everyone, not just Nissa, so at least the speed problem doesn't become a Nissa-specific problem.

I hear ya. You could always scale back Herald of the Pantheon to only gain 1 life. That would make it more in line with the print version, and I'm thinking people would still play the card just as often. Seems like a legit way to have people switch back from green. I have had plenty of games with green where I'll crawl back from 54 life and end the game with 83-90. That makes Nissa not only a speed problem, but a sustainability problem. If Jace were not an opponent in a game, a player could play an entire tournament strictly just with Nissa. Right now, with Nissa's life gain, the 3 hearts can effectively be used to allow you to "scoop" to Jace opponents and then go back to winning every game. Nerfing Herald of the Pantheon might make people have to go back to playing cards like Mantle of Webs, which would slow Nissa games down. Right now, they don't have to hold back at all, even against Chandra's burn. And can still win games with 78+ life after defeating Chandra. But I know the whole meta is about to change, just giving you more input of how I think about the game

LordWill

Hibernum_JC wrote:

LordWill wrote:

You bring up an interesting point. I ONLY use Nissa because she is fast and every other PW I have tried is very slow and honestly not very fun. I just can't find anyone that gets mana going quickly and getting creatures out and pounding on the enemy. So since you know Nissa is faster and all the other PW's are slower, are you going to find a way to "fix/balance/revamp" them or just leave them as is and focus your development on the new PW's?

I understand you guys have probably learned a lot from this first round of PW's and I'm glad you recognize the shortcomings of the current PW's.
It seems a shame to leave them as is since a lot of time and effort was put into them. I think they would be good if they could gain mana the way Nissa does. I'm sure there are other ways to enhance them to speed them up.

How many new PW are there going to be?

We will rebalance or revamp whatever we find to be game-breaking, of course. Nissa's main issue is the amount of ramp she has, so if that truly becomes a problem after the new Planeswalkers and cards are out, we will figure out a way to rebalance what is problematic.

We did learn a lot from the first round of PWs. There's a lot we're doing different with the new ones - some things may be experiments, see how things pan out (it's a lot more difficult to get a good sample size in a controlled environment) but generally we're more confident with the new ones.

I can't divulge the exact number of new Planeswalkers, but I can tell you there's quite a few coming, and there's a few surprises in there that I'm sure nobody is expecting.

But if you are wanting to speed up the game why would you even consider nerfing Nissa when you just acknowledged that the other PW's were slow?

So from your answer, you are leaving the current PW's as they are and focusing on making the game faster with the new PW's/Cards only. Correct?

Hibernum_JC

ChrisTot wrote:

Hibernum_JC wrote:

We actually do want you guys to switch between Planeswalkers. It doesn't seem to happen for some reasons, the biggest one being healing. Our plans is we're hoping that with the new cards you'll see that you can win that fast with everyone, not just Nissa, so at least the speed problem doesn't become a Nissa-specific problem.

I hear ya. You could always scale back Herald of the Pantheon to only gain 1 life. That would make it more in line with the print version, and I'm thinking people would still play the card just as often. Seems like a legit way to have people switch back from green. I have had plenty of games with green where I'll crawl back from 54 life and end the game with 83-90. That makes Nissa not only a speed problem, but a sustainability problem. If Jace were not an opponent in a game, a player could play an entire tournament strictly just with Nissa. Right now, with Nissa's life gain, the 3 hearts can effectively be used to allow you to "scoop" to Jace opponents and then go back to winning every game. Nerfing Herald of the Pantheon might make people have to go back to playing cards like Mantle of Webs, which would slow Nissa games down. Right now, they don't have to hold back at all, even against Chandra's burn. And can still win games with 78+ life after defeating Chandra. But I know the whole meta is about to change, just giving you more input of how I think about the game

It's a possibility. It's Nissa's #1 source of healing, so it is a problem. Once the new set comes out we'll see the impact of the new cards on the current meta and adjust accordingly.

LordWill wrote:

But if you are wanting to speed up the game why would you even consider nerfing Nissa when you just acknowledged that the other PW's were slow?

So from your answer, you are leaving the current PW's as they are and focusing on making the game faster with the new PW's/Cards only. Correct?

I think I wasn't clear enough, sorry! We're only considering nerfing Nissa if the new metagame doesn't significantly speed up. If it speeds up, there is little to no need to nerf her.

And right now, the current Planeswalkers all got slight adjustment in ability costs (and Gideon got a change in his first ability) so that there is no point in leaving them low level anymore.

The_Leftist

Would just like to say thank you for the amount of responses we have gotten from you in the past few days. I haven't kept track, but I'm pretty sure you have communicated with us more and in a better manner than anyone else has since the beginning. I appreciate you taking time to answer questions (especially in a timely fashion) and relay other information to us.

Hibernum_JC

The_Leftist wrote:

Would just like to say thank you for the amount of responses we have gotten from you in the past few days. I haven't kept track, but I'm pretty sure you have communicated with us more and in a better manner than anyone else has since the beginning. I appreciate you taking time to answer questions (especially in a timely fashion) and relay other information to us.

You're welcome! I've really felt bad about not being able to be on the forums more, so I love this opportunity to discuss more with you guys.

Unknown

Drana is certainly a good card, and the unblockable is great, but she takes 6 turns (assuming you have 3 creatures out) to catch up to Relic seeker's damage.

Which is...a long time.

In 6 turns assuming you have relic seeker, and 2 other 4/4's at the least, you'll do 99 damage, which is enough to pretty much kill any PW.

But the unblockable is good, and the first strike is as well. Since black has no other real way of buffing creatures she is certainly a must have for black.

But she is vulnerable to a lot of burn.

Black has a decent amount of life leech however, so this is a good boost to the least played color by far.

We'll have to see how much Nixilus' stuff costs, but liliana seems better for lockdown for now. But he is likely going to result in faster kills, if less safe ones.

LordWill

Hibernum_JC wrote:

LordWill wrote:

But if you are wanting to speed up the game why would you even consider nerfing Nissa when you just acknowledged that the other PW's were slow?

So from your answer, you are leaving the current PW's as they are and focusing on making the game faster with the new PW's/Cards only. Correct?

I think I wasn't clear enough, sorry! We're only considering nerfing Nissa if the new metagame doesn't significantly speed up. If it speeds up, there is little to no need to nerf her.

And right now, the current Planeswalkers all got slight adjustment in ability costs (and Gideon got a change in his first ability) so that there is no point in leaving them low level anymore.

Ok, maybe I am missing something here. You're saying if the game doesn't speed up like you want it to with the new PW's then you would consider nerfing the one PW who does speed up the game compared to current PW's that you said are slow. So nerfing her to be slower speeds things up how? I'm really not trying to nitpick. I'm just trying to understand the direction of the game and the game play.

I guess I can ask this in another way. IF Nissa's speed of play is the benchmark for the future, it would be reasonable to assume that the future PW's will be her level of speed of play?

I'm hoping this is the case. I do like faster game play, so anything that helps achieve this will be welcome.

And THANK YOU for responding to all our questions, its like a breath of fresh air...

Hibernum_JC

pandabear wrote:

Drana is certainly a good card, and the unblockable is great, but she takes 6 turns (assuming you have 3 creatures out) to catch up to Relic seeker's damage.

Which is...a long time.

In 6 turns assuming you have relic seeker, and 2 other 4/4's at the least, you'll do 99 damage, which is enough to pretty much kill any PW.

But the unblockable is good, and the first strike is as well. Since black has no other real way of buffing creatures she is certainly a must have for black.

But she is vulnerable to a lot of burn.

Black has a decent amount of life leech however, so this is a good boost to the least played color by far.

We'll have to see how much Nixilus' stuff costs, but liliana seems better for lockdown for now. But he is likely going to result in faster kills, if less safe ones.

Drana does the same amount of damage, assuming equal board position, at turn 5. After that she pulls ahead *massively*. Not to mention that her buffs stick to the other minions, so even if she gets destroyed, you still have to deal with 2 other greatly buffed creatures. It's also guaranteed it will happen within 5 turns - Relic Seeker is not as guaranteed since he can be blocked.

Overall, Drana is better, but she is more vulnerable to burn. As a Black card, nothing else does what she does.

And Liliana is better for lockdown, but Ob Nixilis kills much. much faster (if, as you said, a bit less safe). Which is the essence of black, and which works with what we want to speed up the game.

LordWill wrote:

Ok, maybe I am missing something here. You're saying if the game doesn't speed up like you want it to with the new PW's then you would consider nerfing the one PW who does speed up the game compared to current PW's that you said are slow. So nerfing her to be slower speeds things up how? I'm really not trying to nitpick. I'm just trying to understand the direction of the game and the game play.

I guess I can ask this in another way. IF Nissa's speed of play is the benchmark for the future, it would be reasonable to assume that the future PW's will be her level of speed of play?

I'm hoping this is the case. I do like faster game play, so anything that helps achieve this will be welcome.

And THANK YOU for responding to all our questions, its like a breath of fresh air...

Actually I'm sorry, I've been expressing myself all wrong. It's been a stressful day at the office! (loads of planning and such).

So yes, what I actually MEANT to say is that if Nissa's speed ends up being still faster than what we would like the new speed standard to be, then she will be nerfed. That's what I meant!

And you're welcome! I love answering questions like this, it's super interesting to engage with players this way. I just wish I had more time to do so.

loroku

Hibernum_JC wrote:

Events will change that - PvE events are much more about completion than speed, and the rewards will be very different.

I also have to reiterate - Ob Nixilis *will* kill your opponents in PvP quickly. Once his 3rd ability is on the board, there's a very large chance you'll win within very few turns. It's not because he looks slow that he is slow - he definitely is not slow! If you even just look at the effectiveness of Relic Seeker, Drana costs the same, but instead of giving +1/+1 to one creature after he's dealt damage to the enemy once, she does a potential +3/+3 in stats every single turn. She's much. much faster than Relic Seeker.

As for the level 50 against level 1 bug, this is fixed on our servers - it was an issue with matchmaking, and I just confirmed it with our server guys that it is indeed fixed.

First off, this is a great response - thank you!

Hibernum_JC wrote:

We actually do want you guys to switch between Planeswalkers. It doesn't seem to happen for some reasons,

I feel like this is obvious from a player perspective. #1: we don't have the cards! For example, I'd love to play green but I can't because I don't have some of her key rares (like the spider or colossus) which makes her much harder to play. Green, blue, and black are all very dependent on their cards to get good - the commons and uncommons are pretty poor. I feel like red and white can do better with their mid-level cards.

#2 is probably the speed difference; #3 is that it is much easier to find the deck you have a consistent win streak with and you stick to it because it's faster than switching around all the time. A game like this is a pick-up-put-down. Constantly switching decks is more taxing mentally, and it's easier to wait for regen when you put it down (at least for me). People who play constantly for hours will have different reasons, though.

loroku

Hibernum_JC wrote:

loroku wrote:

So, to be specific: if we have boosters / fat packs / etc. from Origins these will not translate into Zendikar packs upon release? So there is no practical function of hording your Origins packs?

There is absolutely no practical reason for hoarding your Origins packs, no.

Are there any plans to offer guaranteed rarity to packs in the future? This seems like something that would go a long way toward softening the RNG blow everyone experiences from time to time.

Irving

Hibernum_JC wrote:

We actually do want you guys to switch between Planeswalkers. It doesn't seem to happen for some reasons,

loroku wrote:

I feel like this is obvious from a player perspective. #1: we don't have the cards! For example, I'd love to play green but I can't because I don't have some of her key rares (like the spider or colossus) which makes her much harder to play. Green, blue, and black are all very dependent on their cards to get good - the commons and uncommons are pretty poor. I feel like red and white can do better with their mid-level cards.

#2 is probably the speed difference; #3 is that it is much easier to find the deck you have a consistent win streak with and you stick to it because it's faster than switching around all the time. A game like this is a pick-up-put-down. Constantly switching decks is more taxing mentally, and it's easier to wait for regen when you put it down (at least for me). People who play constantly for hours will have different reasons, though.

I really like switching Planeswalkers - the #1 most fun thing about the game for me is that there are different playstyles for different colors. Liliana is probably the most fun - I strip cards out of my opponent's hand, kill stuff with Graveblade Marauders and Unholy Hungers, and eventually reanimate a Hangarback or fly over with a Kothophed for the win. Loroku's right though - I couldn't do that until a few weeks ago, because it just doesn't work without Unholy Hunger and I didn't have it. It's also a blast to kill everything that moves with Chandra, to watch entire boards hurl themselves against a vigilant Consul's Lieutenant and die, and to bleed mana away with Jace's Sanctum/Sphinx's Tutelage.

I *do* have most of the cards, though, because I got most of them before 1.3 when rares and mythics were much easier to acquire. I'm really worried that the current drop rate - something like 1 or 2 rares per Fat Pack (which costs $8ish depending on how many crystals you buy), and mythics a fraction of that - will mean that you have to spend into the hundreds to get even a reasonable number of the most interesting cards. (Currently there are 48 rares and 26 mythics, for reference.) Maybe new content will make a lot of crystals available - maybe drop rates or crystal prices will change. The uncertainty is keeping me from spending money that I'd like to spend, though, because there's been no word and because rates apparently changed before without notice. Hibernum_JC, I get that you can't speak to this, but I really hope we'll hear from someone who can.

Beyond that, I don't switch PWs as much as I'd like to because of the 50 vs 1 bug - glad that one's getting fixed, because it's hard to justify playing other PWs when Nissa is winning on turn 3 and 4 for me. Don't forget too that much of this happens because QBs are the only game in town, and those reward speed - if there are enough other things to do, speed won't be so important. And I enjoyed the heroic encounters, but didn't stress over getting all the achievements - yes, they were difficult, but too many of them were the kind of difficult that you beat by getting the right opening hand and the right early cascade, and where's the fun in that? Some of them truly were deckbuilding challenges, though, which I appreciated because it's fun to tune a specialized deck with cards you normally wouldn't use.

Thanks as always for listening and for the opportunity to give feedback.

fox1342

We actually do want you guys to switch between Planeswalkers. It doesn't seem to happen for some reasons,

For me it's deck building. There are few decks that work for QB, and in story they have to be specifically crafted. And the way it's set up at the moment I spend one day trying the heroic's for crystal and the next in QB. If I could save decks per PW then I could create a QB one, and then one to edit for story. But building a deck takes time, and as above I only play in short (ish) bursts. If I spend all my time (re)building decks then there's no time to play.

How are the QB opponent decks chosen? out of all current decks? Or only those that have played in a QB?

All non-nissa PW are too slow to play reliably in QB. They'll win sometimes, but always lose to a good nissa start. Of which there are many.

Looking forward to new PW though.

EDHdad

We actually do want you guys to switch between Planeswalkers. It doesn't seem to happen for some reasons, the biggest one being healing.

I don't think it has anything to do with healing. In paper Magic, most Magic players will play the same deck over and over. You get more wins more consistently when you know all the ins and outs of a particular deck than if you switch around. Some people have played the same basic archetype for more than 20 years, even with different formats, different metagames and thousands of new cards printed.

If you want people to play different decks, then give them an incentive to play different decks. Like, in Quick Battle mode, maybe give 1 bonus point if they win with a different deck than they played last game, and 2 bonus points if they win with a deck which was different than the other two. Or, maybe have a mode where you can't play with the same deck twice in a row. Or, charge them points against their total to use a potion. Or, give them a bonus if they haven't used a potion. Or, give them a point bonus if they have won at least 1 match using 7 different Planeswalkers. Or, assign the player's Planeswalker at random, just as the opposing Planeswalker is chosen at random.

In Story Mode, maybe make it so you can win another batch of Mana Crystals, but only if you use a different Planeswalker than you used previously to get those same Mana Crystals.

loroku

EDHdad wrote:

If you want people to play different decks, then give them an incentive to play different decks.

I like this idea! The trick though, is to make it an incentive to do so - and not a punishment if you don't. Some of the ideas you listed would feel like I was being forced to use other decks, instead of encouraged. But overall this is a great suggestion!

fox1342

In Story Mode, maybe make it so you can win another batch of Mana Crystals, but only if you use a different Planeswalker than you used previously to get those same Mana Crystals.

I'd like this. It would be real incentive to repeat the Story challenges.