The "new" pve

HossDrone

Was much better than the old system which they re-implemented.

Does anybody know if they are going to bring it back or was it just too successful, too many people hitting Max progression for stingy af d3 to use it.

I actually enjoyed the scaling going up. I enjoyed that I could play when I could, ya know being a working adult with a wife and puppygirl. I made max progression for the first time in a long time and reaching IT ACTUALLY FELT GOOD and not like it was a consolation prize.

I really shouldn't be surprised though. If it makes the players happy then d3 has to take it away.

xdogg

If it makes the players happy then d3 has to take it away.

This isn't necessarily true. A lot of players hated the new system, including myself. I didn't mind the change in timers, it was the scaling that was ridiculous and the afct that there were no 'easy' nodes at all. If they could change those 2 things, I'd be OK with them changing it.

Unknown

xdogg wrote:

If it makes the players happy then d3 has to take it away.

This isn't necessarily true. A lot of players hated the new system, including myself. I didn't mind the change in timers, it was the scaling that was ridiculous and the afct that there were no 'easy' nodes at all. If they could change those 2 things, I'd be OK with them changing it.

Yeah, I have 77 playable characters on my roster. The scaling in the "new" PVE's required me to use only my lv 315 OML, lv 315 SS, & lv 255 Phoenix. It's not honestly fun using that team every time when I prefer to use other characters. It's boring doing 6 clears of every node with the same team, granted the essential nodes caused me to supplant one. But that scaling is trash. Without the scaling, maybe I could deal with 6 clears.

Skygazing

HossDrone wrote:

Was much better than the old system which they re-implemented.

Does anybody know if they are going to bring it back or was it just too successful, too many people hitting Max progression for stingy af d3 to use it.

I actually enjoyed the scaling going up. I enjoyed that I could play when I could, ya know being a working adult with a wife and puppygirl. I made max progression for the first time in a long time and reaching IT ACTUALLY FELT GOOD and not like it was a consolation prize.

I really shouldn't be surprised though. If it makes the players happy then d3 has to take it away.

I'll address each of these points separately.

Too many people hit progression which isn't what D3 wants. This past test lowered progression beyond even the usual PvE standards. If this was the case in the current system it would be easier as well. In other words this has nothing to do with the new system.

I actually enjoyed scaling going up. Why? You realize that with levels jumping in increments of 10-15 each time that you end up with way higher levels than the present system right? You want to fight harder for the same rewards? (More on this in a second)

I enjoyed playing when I could. Which you can do with the current system. What many people don't seem to realize is that if all you're after is max progression, the recharge timer is an illusion. To give you an example, I didn't really want to play this past heroic at all, but with maybe two full clears each for the first two subs and hitting the easy nodes before the end, and then 3 clears and grinding the essentials and easy nodes on the final sub, I was able to hit progression pretty painlessly. You can play when you want with the current system and still very easily hit progression.

Progression felt good and not like a consolation prize. Progression is a consolation prize by default, no matter the system. I don't know why this last time made you feel like it wasn't, because I doubt that hitting progression earned you that high of a placement.

If it makes players feel good, D3 has to take it away. D3 can be out of touch with the player-base, but by and large has implemented a lot of very well-received changes. Removal of 20 iso rewards, addition of DPD, increased token odds, removal of the 3* vault, addition of the vault reward system, increased PvE recharge from 3 hours to 8 hours, standardized PvE, nerf of Galactus/Ultron, and even more. Comparatively there are very few things that D3 has "taken away" from the playerbase. In fact all I can really think of is the removal of HP-purchased covers, double ISO, and "premium" PvP.

I should also note that by and large the reaction to this new form of PvE is highly negative and you are one of the few that seems to want it to stick around.

BlackSheep101

I'm hoping if they run another test that they make major changes for folks with high level rosters. I've seen many 2* and 3* tier players talking up the changes as super helpful, but I know I've seen nothing but a drastic increase in difficulty.

Vomit Fountain

Gotta agree with the others here. While I don't mind the idea of doing away with the timer the scaling really limited my usable characters. I wasn't actually grinding the nodes but it sure felt that way. If they fixed the scaling or brought back the trivial levels it might not be so bad for a lot of people.

tanis3303

I can't understand why they don't just take the things everyone seems to like from both styles of PvE and hybridize them into one and test THAT. Keep the trivial nodes and the current scaling model, keep the 6x before the timer point style and the 13/13 cap on enemy powers and trash everything else. Seems that would make everybody reasonably happy...

cyineedsn

tanis3303 wrote:

I can't understand why they don't just take the things everyone seems to like from both styles of PvE and hybridize them into one and test THAT. Keep the trivial nodes and the current scaling model, keep the 6x before the timer point style and the 13/13 cap on enemy powers and trash everything else. Seems that would make everybody reasonably happy...

STOP. How dare you try to bring logic here. There is no place for logic here. Go back to grinding for tokens for that sweet 0.2% chance at Howard.

udonomefoo

tanis3303 wrote:

I can't understand why they don't just take the things everyone seems to like from both styles of PvE and hybridize them into one and test THAT. Keep the trivial nodes and the current scaling model, keep the 6x before the timer point style and the 13/13 cap on enemy powers and trash everything else. Seems that would make everybody reasonably happy...

Pretty sure we all thought that's what the second test was going to be...

Vhailorx

TC (and others with the same opinion). Don't fall for the sleight of hand distraction the devs pulled with these changes!

Yes, they got rid of the timer. But that doesn't actually matter because the timer had no effect on casual players (it was 100% possible achieve all prog rewards and top 100 placement without paying any attention to the timer at all). All the timer did was dictate the schedule necessary for optimal scoring (ie, hardcore play), and the new system does dictate a different (worse) schedule for the hardcore. But for casual players, removing the timer was just the window dressing for the real changes (higher, or "smoother" as the devs say, scaling, bigger level jumps after each win, more wins required for prog rewards, many more matches required for optimal scoring, much longer grind sessions required for optimal scoring). And the real changes are worse for everyone no matter how much they play.

Linkster79

tanis3303 wrote:

I can't understand why they don't just take the things everyone seems to like from both styles of PvE and hybridize them into one and test THAT. Keep the trivial nodes and the current scaling model, keep the 6x before the timer point style and the 13/13 cap on enemy powers and trash everything else. Seems that would make everybody reasonably happy...

What is "fun" and "challenging" in that scenario? Personally I want more events that ignores most of my roster and limits me to using just the best 4 characters I have, I mean c'mon who doesn't like to use 3 health packs after every battle just because we don't have Old Man Logan dripping in yellow covers?


For clarification this post is about 0.2% serious, about the same as drawing Howard The Duck from "Special" event tokens.

hamsup_sotong

under the old system, you could pretty much get the max progression with 3 full clears of each sub in most events.

While the removal of the timer is good change on paper, the shifting of the goalposts to 6x made it a lot "grindier".


As for scaling, it's a necessary evil though.5 rosters had a huge advantage because of the scaling cap(325 for non goons and 395 for goons) under the old system while being at levels 450+

how they smooth out scaling at that upper end.. is another story

cheers
hamsup

smkspy

I didn't mind the scaling so much, but I do mind playing harder nodes for dumpy rewards. Nothing like playing against 210 level enemies for a measly 70 iso. If the new system is made permanent then they make worth our while.

HaywireII

I don't understand why people are saying "new system" and "old system". There is a system for PvE that has been in place and is still in place. There have been two tests run with changes to how PvE works. The tests may or may not reflect how PvE works in the future.

When the devs finally announce that they have a new system that they like then the current PvE will be the old PvE. In the meantime it's just PvE.

udonomefoo

HaywireII wrote:

I don't understand why people are saying "new system" and "old system". There is a system for PvE that has been in place and is still in place. There have been two tests run with changes to how PvE works. The tests may or may not reflect how PvE works in the future.

When the devs finally announce that they have a new system that they like then the current PvE will be the old PvE. In the meantime it's just PvE.

Did you understand what people meant when they said "new system"? Then it was an effective way to differentiate. Could people have called it the "test system"? Yeah, sure. Is it minor semantics not worth complaining about? You decide.

I've been losing the internal struggle to not start communicating solely through eyeroll gifs. I think I need a forum break.

jackstar0

I'd like to add if they scaled it back to 4 hits before the timer (with max level at the 4th hit), and kept 7 rewards, and lowered progression levels to compensate, I think that would have made a lot of it more palatable.

Starsaber

jackstar0 wrote:

I'd like to add if they scaled it back to 4 hits before the timer (with max level at the 4th hit), and kept 7 rewards, and lowered progression levels to compensate, I think that would have made a lot of it more palatable.

That would be a decent improvement, but the best option would be to fold placement rewards into progression instead so there is a PVE other than DDQ going on all the time

Vhailorx

HaywireII wrote:

I don't understand why people are saying "new system" and "old system". There is a system for PvE that has been in place and is still in place. There have been two tests run with changes to how PvE works. The tests may or may not reflect how PvE works in the future.

When the devs finally announce that they have a new system that they like then the current PvE will be the old PvE. In the meantime it's just PvE.

By the time a potential change is ready get pushed out to the players as a test, demiurge has already invested a significant amount of development resources into the change. Everything that has made it to the test stage in the past has ultimately been implmented in a relatively similar format in future.

also, "new" and "old" are perfectly reasonable labels to use as they convey meaning with a low chance of misunderstanding, and are fast to type at only 3 characters each.

slidecage

if you want to change PVE then i want PVP to change... you no longer score pts in PVP but are given pts based on your final rank in each game... I take top 10 each event but overall my season is 400 to 500 Rank how is that even fair.. So if you want to screw with PVE then i demand PVP gets screwed even more

cardoor

Skygazing wrote:

HossDrone wrote:

Was much better than the old system which they re-implemented.

Does anybody know if they are going to bring it back or was it just too successful, too many people hitting Max progression for stingy af d3 to use it.

I actually enjoyed the scaling going up. I enjoyed that I could play when I could, ya know being a working adult with a wife and puppygirl. I made max progression for the first time in a long time and reaching IT ACTUALLY FELT GOOD and not like it was a consolation prize.

I really shouldn't be surprised though. If it makes the players happy then d3 has to take it away.

...

I enjoyed playing when I could. Which you can do with the current system. What many people don't seem to realize is that if all you're after is max progression, the recharge timer is an illusion. To give you an example, I didn't really want to play this past heroic at all, but with maybe two full clears each for the first two subs and hitting the easy nodes before the end, and then 3 clears and grinding the essentials and easy nodes on the final sub, I was able to hit progression pretty painlessly. You can play when you want with the current system and still very easily hit progression.

...

That is only one scenario; overall not being on a timer is better. Without a timer you have the flexibility to play casually or competitively even if you do not plan your day around MPQ. You could start casually and then 12 hours later decide you want to compete without having missed the first round of clears. In the new system your schedule does not revolve around MPQ's every 8 hours.

If you want to make a point about max progression, fine, but stop trying to convince people to keep the timer. A lack of a timer on each sub is an improvement!

slidecage

cardoor wrote:

Skygazing wrote:

HossDrone wrote:

Was much better than the old system which they re-implemented.

Does anybody know if they are going to bring it back or was it just too successful, too many people hitting Max progression for stingy af d3 to use it.

I actually enjoyed the scaling going up. I enjoyed that I could play when I could, ya know being a working adult with a wife and puppygirl. I made max progression for the first time in a long time and reaching IT ACTUALLY FELT GOOD and not like it was a consolation prize.

I really shouldn't be surprised though. If it makes the players happy then d3 has to take it away.

...

I enjoyed playing when I could. Which you can do with the current system. What many people don't seem to realize is that if all you're after is max progression, the recharge timer is an illusion. To give you an example, I didn't really want to play this past heroic at all, but with maybe two full clears each for the first two subs and hitting the easy nodes before the end, and then 3 clears and grinding the essentials and easy nodes on the final sub, I was able to hit progression pretty painlessly. You can play when you want with the current system and still very easily hit progression.

...

That is only one scenario; overall not being on a timer is better. Without a timer you have the flexibility to play casually or competitively even if you do not plan your day around MPQ. You could start casually and then 12 hours later decide you want to compete without having missed the first round of clears. In the new system your schedule does not revolve around MPQ's every 8 hours.

If you want to make a point about max progression, fine, but stop trying to convince people to keep the timer. A lack of a timer on each sub is an improvement!

maybe a lack of timer is Good for you but not all... most dont have 3 hours to play at the start of a nod then 2 hours at the end