Jace Rebalance

Unknown

I don't play often, just whenever I have some spare time. I have 3 level 50s and my lowest is 30 so I've experienced a lot of the game and the most infuriating thing consistently is whenever I play against Jace. The entire class is built around preventing you from playing the game. Drain your mana to stop you from casting spells, make creatures you summon have zero attack turn after turn then unsummon them back to your hand with a substantial cost increase.

I get that Jace is the control walker/color however it just feels too efficient at all modes of control. And I feel I've find the primary source of the frustration.

Jace's first power is very debilitating when combined with all his other control elements. 6 attack makes almost all minions useless, so it's should be tactical to use the ability not something that can just be spammed turn after turn. I'm not sure why such a strong ability only costs 3 walker points. It should be at least 6 to be in line with other walker abilities.

Jace can build a lot of walker points before you summon your first creature do to how the class can play, so by time you actually get a creature down to start a comeback, it won't attack, or defend properly for another 3-4 turns giving Jace even more time to build a strong offence and control field.

loroku

Jace's first power is ridiculous, it's true. Jace also has the most broken card in the game right now - Mizzium Meddler. On the other hand: Jace doesn't have much else going for him, so maybe the broken stuff doesn't seem that bad?

Right now the meta is about speed. Jace isn't speedy. (He also has mostly terrible creatures, except for a couple that are over-powered.) There's not a lot of reason to play Jace if you can play anyone else. And since defensive losses don't mean anything (which is great, btw - I'm not asking to change it) people can just insta-quit against Jace and suck up the potion and keep going. So the fact that his first power is just silly doesn't mean as much.

If anything changes, this will put more of a focus on his first power and how OP it is. Hopefully by then it will be adjusted.

Hibernum_JC

There's one thing I can safely say about Jace - his first power has been toned down in 1.4.0. We do agree that it is a bit too powerful in many situations, and so to that effect we made some changes to it.

shteev

loroku wrote:

Jace... also has mostly terrible creatures, except for a couple that are over-powered.

But that's the problem right there, isn't it? it doesn't matter if Jace's 'average' creature is terrible, he has enough really powerful (some might say 'broken') creatures that you never need to run any of his chaff. Mizzium Meddler, Jhessian Thief, Harbinger of the Tides, job done. Do you need anything else? Maybe Tower Geist, if you like, that's pretty over the curve as well.

Going forward, it might be interesting to see Jace's lack of decent defenders be exploited as a weakness of his by printing more Hexproof creatures. That said, Hexproof in this game is kind of ridiculous right now, and I can imagine much angry feedback from players faced by creatures they can't affect in the slightest.

OhanaUnited

shteev wrote:

loroku wrote:

Jace... also has mostly terrible creatures, except for a couple that are over-powered.

But that's the problem right there, isn't it? it doesn't matter if Jace's 'average' creature is terrible, he has enough really powerful (some might say 'broken') creatures that you never need to run any of his chaff. Mizzium Meddler, Jhessian Thief, Harbinger of the Tides, job done. Do you need anything else? Maybe Tower Geist, if you like, that's pretty over the curve as well.

Going forward, it might be interesting to see Jace's lack of decent defenders be exploited as a weakness of his by printing more Hexproof creatures. That said, Hexproof in this game is kind of ridiculous right now, and I can imagine much angry feedback from players faced by creatures they can't affect in the slightest.

Jace got Scrapskin Drake (9 mana for 3/4 flying defender). That's better than many walls in other colours

shteev

OhanaUnited wrote:

Jace got Scrapskin Drake (9 mana for 3/4 flying defender). That's better than many walls in other colours

Jace's soaring power level leaves this looking a bit weak, I think. 3/4 are not good numbers for taking down the large number of playable 4/4 creatures in the game. And playing with a defender doesn't stack well with Jace's abilities; If you give most creatures -6-0, they won't attack at all, so your having a defender is pointless. Your opponent can make a larger creature by reinforcing it, but that's the time when you bust out an Anchor to the AEther or Harbinger of the Tides, and suddenly your opponent is *way* behind.

rulerhumankind

I think Jace has some of the most powerful combos in the game, that need to be nerfed a bit. I run a jace mana deny deck (yes, I am that evil), with several combos that lock down other decks. It is not his first ability that crazy, but his second.
Here is my current deck:

Sphinx's Tutelage - Jehessian Thief - Jaces Sanctum: Jaces Sanctum drains 3, Sphinx's Tutelage raises cost by 2, then Jehessian Thief draws a card and Sphinx's Tutelage activates again for another raise in cost by 2. In total, 3 drain + 4 increase in cost.

Willbreaker - Foundry of the Consuls - Jace's Second ability: Foundry is nice the first time, but so much nicer for Free the second/ third/fourth time, and with Willbreaker, I snag an enemy creature for a round when I play this. I use their creatures to increase my damage, since it is pretty low.

Mizzium Meddler - Harbringer of Tides: These are my get out of jail free cards. All decks like time, and this deck needs it. Mizzium actually messes up my first combo, so I don't cast him when it is up (does not matter, I draw 2 cards a turn so I ditch him), but if I get hit with board clear or a rough draw this guy buys me time. Harbringer bounces a creature as soon as it lands, and raises cost.

And my last 3 cards
Sigil of Valor - Throwing Knife - Helm of the Gods: That makes 4 total supports in the deck with decient staying power and not to expensive costs, so I can usually get the Helm to activate. I have no defense cards, since I want to do straight damage as fast as possible, and The Helm makes sure a reach or defender goes down before they are a problem. Also with card draw, Helm is easily pitched. Unfortunatly, Helm does not work with Jace's second ability, it actually takes away the buff from the creature and then you can re-apply it, but that can help if you need to move the buff and activate Willbreaker if it is out.

It draws pretty well, since half of my cards are effectively creatures that either build combos or delay for time to build them. Two of the supports also delay for time as well as Jace's first ability for a little bit. Blue is very strong, and pretty slow, a game balance for a game that rewards speed over win percentage (I float at 95%, but I play all 5 decks so I can't say my exact win percentage for this deck.)

To balance this better, and to bring the win percentage down of for almost all decks, you just have to let the game randomly choose if the player or the opponent goes first. This deck relies on getting 1 card out before the opponent can, setting the tempo. Since you always go first, I can always get at least 4 mana on my first card. Typically I'll get even more since it is a clean board. Without that, this deck would suffer greatly, and would need some adjustment with some cheeper cards in the mix.

Hullblazer

I find facing Jace annoying but not impossible to beat. Depending on the hand I'm playing - with Gideon, for example, I beat Jace 2 in 5 times.

His powers ARE frustrating but can be worked around. Yes, -6 attack hurts but you just need to spam lower level, stackable creatures. The -6 doesn't affect your creature 2 or 3.

Mizzium Meddler? I sigh, as it's Jace's boring "go to" card, and ensure the card I want to play is the last one in my hand.

span_argoman

From my experience playing against AI Jace, a very annoying deck to play against (in the hands of the AI) would be:

--- Self-explanatory ---
1) Mizzium Meddler
--- Creature bounce / destruction ---
2) Harbinger of the Tides
3) Anchor to the Aether
4) Brawler's Plate - Goes beautifully with Confusion
--- Draining mana ---
5) Jace Sanctum
6) Sphinx's Tutelage
--- More brute force
7) Thopter Spy Network
8) Disciple of the Ring - Activate FIVE for +4/+4, drain 4 and disable first defender/reach means you'll just about about never kill it with burn spells, never summon your first card and never kill it with a defender. Ridiculous even for a mythic.
--- Flex slots ---
2 flex slots to suit playstyle.
Personally I would go with Talent of the Telepath and Day's Undoing but the AI has no idea how to use those. So for an AI, Meteorite and Claustrophobia might be best. I personally find Claustrophobia to be a little too fragile but to each their own.

fox1342

Agree that Jace is fine, but Disciple is just OTT.