What determines PvE Enemy lvls? [update]

nihilium

Sorry to make a new thread for this, but "There is no incentive in getting stronger" somehow ended up being a mud fight and not really helpfull v.v

What Im wondering is, does the lvl of my characters influence the enemy lvl in PvE events, and if not what does?

Im sitting on 100k ISO and am scared that if I should spend them on my chars ill be screwed in next PvE *sigh*
I only play PvP (</3 PvP, PvE) to 300 points to get the token and I really dont need anything but lvl85 OBW and lvl110 Punisher for that, so spending ISO would pretty much only be to do better in PvE Events. BUT if higher chars only get me lvl 230enemies that I dont have any chance to beat anyway (no cool covers), why bother ...

Anyone has a clue how it really works? o.o


Edit:
Do we know anything certain by now?
Will raising my char lvls for PvP screw me in PvE?

Unknown

It's a combination of your roster, your performance on the event itself, and everyone else's performance on the event. This is why sometimes you'll see very hard mission go down in level even though you didn't do anything. The first two factors probably have more weight than the last.

Eddiemon

Actually I think it is your performance in PvE in general rather than the particular event. So if you have been killing it for a while expet a challenge.

The devs have stated that it isn't roster based. I'm not willing to sell my top characters to test this.

Additionally some fights do have level caps, but they seem rare.

eidehua

It's hard to know what is going on really. Some guy who apparently has max characters ~ 50 was getting 230 missions (at least if he was telling the truth), and I have not gotten a single 230 mission the whole event and I have higher level characters than him. I also placed top 10 overall, so there is something weird going on. I have definitely faced 230 missions in previous PVE events, so I'm not sure why I didn't scale to 230 at all this time around.

Unknown

Eddiemon wrote:

Actually I think it is your performance in PvE in general rather than the particular event. So if you have been killing it for a while expet a challenge.

The devs have stated that it isn't roster based. I'm not willing to sell my top characters to test this.

Additionally some fights do have level caps, but they seem rare.

It has to be affected by the roster in some way because there's literally no way a guy with level 50 character as his highest character can possibly beat a 230X3 and yet you can see those guys in the top 10. Bugpop had a theory about how it's based on the characters you actually used which seems plausible, though of course a guy with no one higher than 50 has no choice but to use lower level characters.

Unknown

How well you've done in the event seems to matter. I got on my secondary account to see how the last set of ssub's were. Everything was easy and I stomped both subs. First time I'd touched Brotherhood on the account. I did every Sims sub on this account, and got missions up to deadly there. It seems like you get a MMR tied to the event.

Twysta

Sadly I believe your win:loss ratio also plays a big part...

Eddiemon

Phantron wrote:

It has to be affected by the roster in some way because there's literally no way a guy with level 50 character as his highest character can possibly beat a 230X3 and yet you can see those guys in the top 10. Bugpop had a theory about how it's based on the characters you actually used which seems plausible, though of course a guy with no one higher than 50 has no choice but to use lower level characters.

Yes but there's almost no way that a guy with a level 50 as his top character has won lots of PvE encounters. So it can still be purely history based and not roster based.

I've been beating the crud out of PvE enemies since Cap was released, I'm not surprised they bear additional hostility and resentment towards me. Whereas Mr 'Look at me I just graduated prologue' doesn't have the history to warrant multiple 230s off the bat. It may even take 2-3 events to lock yourself in to painland.

Unknown

I can beat some 230 minion packs with 1* Storm and 1* Widow. It takes approximately forever, and I have to be very careful and a little lucky early on, but it's doable. Hero/villain opponents? No chance, unless *maybe* I stack exactly the right boosts and then proceed to get very lucky cascades over the next half-hour or so. Do not recommend.

Enemy level is definitely affected by PvE accumulated wins/losses. Tanking those levels takes a *lot* of patience and grinding out retreats, but it works. I think the devs don't like tanking, but there really has to be some mechanic to retrieve a situation where the enemies are next to impossible to beat.

nihilium

Vairelome wrote:

I think the devs don't like tanking, but there really has to be some mechanic to retrieve a situation where the enemies are next to impossible to beat.

Thats kinda what I think as well
I mean what use is it if u just end up passing on all the enemies u KNOW u cant beat (insead of wasting all ur health packs on juggs) and grind only 1-2 missinos and because of that they raise the enemy lvls even more?

So what, soon mid-lvl players cant play neither PvP nor PvE? o.o

Unknown

Lyrian's post here was extremely helpful to me in the last day of the ISO-8 Brotherhood event. Tanking does work; it just takes patience and a bit of grinding. It's FAR FAR better than just staying stuck behind a node that you just can't beat--I was there; it sucked.

Unknown

And this fear of levelling characters is exactly why the (unknown) scaling is bad. Before it was simply better for you the higher your characters were.

EDIT: Clarified a bit.

Unknown

Atren wrote:

And this fear of levelling characters is exactly why the (unknown) scaling is bad. Before it you knew higher you are better off higher your characters are.

My top leveled guy when they implemented scaling? 75th level. My top leveled guy now? 75th level. Admittedly, now I have 7 people at 75th level, with 3 more at 73rd about to be leveled up, but the reason for this is 100% scaling. I'm currently debating whether to take the ten pack any further or to promote someone from the JV squad (probably Classic Storm; maybe MN Magneto) to 75th level before letting anyone get any further.

Unknown

Unless you've absolutely the top character combos, these events do encourage you to have a diverse roster. Therefore if instead of leveling you diversify your roster more, it'll indeed help you. In fact just having a level 141 guy without the right guy to support him is pretty much the worst way to approach the PvE events (unless that guy is major boosted).

It's not so much as discourage leveling as opposed the roster encourages you to keep your character levels roughly even. The boosted characters plays a significant part in all the events. If you had a level 85 Captain America, you'd be able to do two of the Captain America required missions that most people probably didn't do (the levels on that are significantly lower despite the enemies not being the hard ones). Alternatively you could have 2 powerhouse characters carry your level 6 Captain America, which is what I did.

Zifna

I agree - I can easily beat minons of any level with storm/OBW/Thor. It's just a matter of being careful and patient. But that doesn't mean that L200 Dark Avengers are an appropriate challenge for me - I only have one L85.

I don't understand why they don't have a cap on their scaling. Everything could be exactly the same if the highest-level enemy you could face was capped at, say, double the level of your second-highest character and it would be fine.

Unknown

My advice, do not level any characters until they fix the scaling formula. The caveat to this being that your roster is already so high level that you can consistently top 5 PvP events.

Unknown

We'd need people to actually put out data on their experiences to get the full picture. There are too many varables for 1 person to figure it out on his own.

I've been playing since day 1, consistently landed in 2nd tier reward (3-star × 3, no 4-star), but also had a fair share of 4-star reward placements as well. There was a "calculate the ISO you spent thread" so look there if you want an idea of my roster levels--it hasn't changed much.

People complained about lvl 230 Juggs... mine was lvl 42 in this event. I don't want to say that I'm reluctant in sharing my theories on level scaling, but I'm not quite a Nemek either. I detailed a bit on my findings on level scaling in another thread, but I did leave out the interaction of hero levels. In yet another thread, I talked about how I'm building duplicate heroes. I'll let you figure out your own conclusion.

Unknown

My highest level characters are level 115 (Magento and Patch). In this event I finished 2nd overall, and had top 5 sub bracket finishes in all sub brackets where I didn't miss the last refresh.

The first sub bracket I did was level 100-150. After that they're all 230 except the ones that are obviously capped at a low level, and the ones that are clearly tough for the community (stuff that involves Daredevil, Captain America, or nasty combination of enemies). Usually the tough missions are around level 180-200 for me.

over_clocked

I only had Trivial and Normal matches once in a while during both the Sim and Brotherhood event. The Sim started out real nice and actually well below my capability, but quickly turned into lvl 230s. Seeing lvl 170-200s and higher almost all the time in the final stages of the Brotherhood event.

Maybe the more characters you put ISO into, the harder the levels get? I spend any ISO I get immediately, but not my friend.

My friend has placed really well in the latest PvEs, doesn't have a leveled oBW or Spidey, never reported having lvl 230s all the time. Compare our rosters.
My friend:


Me:


Edit: my friend just reminded me that he often retreats in Shield versus, while I rarely bother to tank at all, unless I start seeing teams out of my league in PvP.

nihilium

do we know anything by now? o.o